• Basic Writing questions is not a crit forum. All crits belong in Share Your Work

Too much Dialogue?

KiwiinLondon

Registered
Joined
Nov 15, 2017
Messages
19
Reaction score
2
Hey guys -

I received some feedback on my novel that there was quite a bit of dialogue. The reader in question said she personally loves dialogue so it wasn't an issue for her, but could be for some. What's everyone's thoughts on the amount of dialogue in novels and when does it become off putting?

All my dialogue is there for either character development or to drive the story along. I agree with the feedback though - it is a dialogue heavy novel. It focuses around the relationship of my two main characters and a big part of the relationship is their banter. What techniques can you put in place to reduce the dialogue where it might not be absolutely critical?

Just curious, really what everyone thinks about it. Is it a personal thing, or are there any rules around this I'm not aware of?

Thanks x
 
Last edited:

Enlightened

Always Learning
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jan 5, 2018
Messages
4,863
Reaction score
167
Location
Colorado
Did you meet the word count limit for the genre you want to publish, or did you pass it with too much dialogue (if you are unpublished)?

Action keeps user interest. I think action must keep user interest. This is an element of showing, but not to say that dialogue does not show (instead of tell). Maybe the dialogue is robotic for some, and more action may benefit these people.

I think this is an issue of quality vs. quantity, as it pertains to dialogue. Maybe find another reader and see what (s)he thinks of the matter.
 

KiwiinLondon

Registered
Joined
Nov 15, 2017
Messages
19
Reaction score
2
Did you meet the word count limit for the genre you want to publish, or did you pass it with too much dialogue (if you are unpublished)?

Unpublished - the word count is a bit over, so I think trimming down on dialogue might be a good remedy for that!

Will definitely get more opinions too.

Thanks!
 

The Urban Spaceman

Existential quandary
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jan 22, 2017
Messages
1,013
Reaction score
144
Website
theurbanspaceman.net
All my dialogue is there for either character development or to drive the story along. I agree with the feedback though - it is a dialogue heavy novel. It focuses around the relationship of my two main characters and a big part of the relationship is their banter. What techniques can you put in place to reduce the dialogue where it might not be absolutely critical?

Just curious, really what everyone thinks about it. Is it a personal thing, or are there any rules around this I'm not aware of?

Thanks x

Some feedback I had a few years ago from readers suggested they preferred it when I broke up the dialogue with action.

But then, different types of dialogue can have different effects on the story. Short, rapid-fire sentences without many action tags or interruption from action causes the story to move quickly, while longer, more ponderous pieces of dialogue—even without action tags—can slow it down.

Finding a balance is very difficult, and I couldn't give you my own tuppence into your own work without an excerpt to go off. Maybe SYW if you've got 50 posts.

ETA: I see you haven't got fifty posts. Maybe take a look in SYW at how others are handling dialogue and offer some crits. That way, if you don't want to post something later, you'll have the gratitude of a few writers who may return the favour.
 

Harlequin

Eat books, not brains!
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Nov 21, 2010
Messages
4,584
Reaction score
1,412
Location
The land from whence the shadows fall
Website
www.sunyidean.com
So I'm a dialogue heavy writer who underwrites, and structures around dialogue.

The end result is that my early drafts read as long chunks of dialogue with notes like "transition here" or "some kind of f*cking fight scene, idn" etc.

It's likely that the dialogue can be condensed and you should do that first if you can. But my experience so far (take with salt) is that when writers have too much dialogue, they're missing two big things--internal world, and transitions.

Internal world; sufficient thoughts, motivations, and explorations to add depth and context for your dialogue. I would also include physical and emotional reactions in this.

Transitions; you're getting to your core scenes too quickly. I should maybe have said 'conflict' because that's something which is, surprisingly, easily skipped over as well.

Dialogue scenes often need to be earned, as in the character has to overcome obstacles and/or conflicts to get a discussion. (Bad example but you will see this structure in video game RPGs). Unless you're deliberately structuring to have dialogue dominate, it's probably a case of imbalance and other areas of your writing could use beefing up.
 

blackcat777

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Nov 6, 2017
Messages
415
Reaction score
78
Another question for OP: do you characters ever sit and talk? You might want to see if you can entwine those scenes with some activity (ideally that's symbolic of something else relevant to the story).

The only time dialogue makes my head spin as a reader is if it goes on for pages with zero attributions. In this case, if I blink, I lose sight of who said what.
 

indianroads

Wherever I go, there I am.
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 4, 2017
Messages
2,372
Reaction score
230
Location
Colorado
Website
indianroads.net
Are your characters sitting alone in an empty room for the whole of your novel? There should be some change of scenery. I imagine they eat at some time or the other too.

If you feel there is too much dialog they you may be right - no one knows your story as well as you do. Different locations can bring out different aspects of your characters, can you explore that?
 

BethS

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Dec 21, 2005
Messages
11,708
Reaction score
1,763
What's everyone's thoughts on the amount of dialogue in novels and when does it become off putting?

It becomes off-putting, and tedious, when it goes on and on to no purpose. Particularly if that's at the expense of other interesting things happening.

You mentioned "banter." Banter can be fun to read and write, and in small doses it can make a novel sparkle, but it can also be guilty of replacing actual story. Maybe yours is not pulling the weight you think it is.
 

JoB42

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Aug 17, 2017
Messages
360
Reaction score
123
Location
United States
Hey guys -

I received some feedback on my novel that there was quite a bit of dialogue. The reader in question said she personally loves dialogue so it wasn't an issue for her, but could be for some. What's everyone's thoughts on the amount of dialogue in novels and when does it become off putting?

All my dialogue is there for either character development or to drive the story along. I agree with the feedback though - it is a dialogue heavy novel. It focuses around the relationship of my two main characters and a big part of the relationship is their banter. What techniques can you put in place to reduce the dialogue where it might not be absolutely critical?

Just curious, really what everyone thinks about it. Is it a personal thing, or are there any rules around this I'm not aware of?

Thanks x

Might be worth posting a sample in SYW when you're up to 50 posts. It's difficult to say when something's too much without an example. Different authors have different styles. Some are much heavier on dialogue than others.
 

Lakey

professional dilettante
Staff member
Super Moderator
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 20, 2017
Messages
2,714
Reaction score
3,965
Location
New England
But then, different types of dialogue can have different effects on the story. Short, rapid-fire sentences without many action tags or interruption from action causes the story to move quickly, while longer, more ponderous pieces of dialogue—even without action tags—can slow it down.

I’ve seen people make this kind of generalization before and I wonder about it - especially the idea that short rapid-fire dialogue moves the story quickly. Wouldn’t that depend upon the content of the dialogue? Short rapid-fire dialogue might advance the story, or it might take the conversation off on a tangent that has nothing to do with the story. The OP mentions “banter” and this makes me worry that maybe the problem is too much chatter that doesn’t actually move the story.

I’m not saying this is necessarily the OP’s issue; just to be wary of the generalization that rapid dialog moves a story quickly. (Urban Spaceman has weighed the scale against longer bits of dialogue with the adjective “ponderous.” I don’t think longer dialogue necessarily slows the story down either - again it depends upon content - but ponderous dialogue definitely sounds like something I don’t want to do.)

Also: There’s something else I hear at AW, which is that if your beta readers tell you there’s a problem in your writing they are probably right, but if they tell you the solution, they are probably wrong. You’ve been told you have too much dialogue, but maybe you can dig deeper and find out that the real problem is something else that the beta reader perceives as too much dialogue. Perhaps it’s too much irrelevant dialogue, or too much on-the-nose dialogue, or too much expository, “as you know, Bob” dialogue, or not enough of the characters’ inner lives (“action” is not the only alternative to “dialogue”). So give that some thought too, rather than taking the advice at face value.
 

Bufty

Where have the last ten years gone?
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
May 9, 2005
Messages
16,768
Reaction score
4,663
Location
Scotland
I find writing good, concise dialogue that flows back and forth and carries the reader effortlessly along can be extremely hard work.

Sometimes it clicks first time, and in other sections it can take ages to spot what's 'wrong' or how to improve it.

I find I constantly spot the odd word I can change for a better one, or unnecessary introductory phrases that can be dropped altogether, or where three better words can replace the existing six, or where phrases or sentences need to be reversed for effect and flow, or where the flow is there but the clarity isn't or vice-versa...the selection and pruning and tightening goes on and on, but when - eventually - it feels and reads right, it can be very satisfying. I hope so :rant:

One thing easily overlooked, is to remember not to try and literally copy how folk speak in real life.

There are proven techniques for writing effective dialogue - reading widely helps, too.

Clarity is king, and simplicity is usually the key to clarity.

Good luck.

As already mentioned, you could consider using the Share-your-Work Forum when your post count reaches the 50 mark.
 
Last edited:

The Urban Spaceman

Existential quandary
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jan 22, 2017
Messages
1,013
Reaction score
144
Website
theurbanspaceman.net
I’m not saying this is necessarily the OP’s issue; just to be wary of the generalization that rapid dialog moves a story quickly. (Urban Spaceman has weighed the scale against longer bits of dialogue with the adjective “ponderous.” I don’t think longer dialogue necessarily slows the story down either - again it depends upon content - but ponderous dialogue definitely sounds like something I don’t want to do.)

Yes, that's what I meant by 'ponderous.' A longer piece of dialogue (or series of dialogue) needn't slow the pacing, but if it's long and ponderous, it probably would. Maybe describing short/rapid dialogue as moving the story along wasn't the best way I could've phrased it. No amount of rapid dialogue will move the story if it's pointless. But it reads faster than longer pieces.
 

Hbooks

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jun 18, 2011
Messages
558
Reaction score
72
I like snappy dialogue, especially in short passages. But I can also think of books that didn't work as well for me because the balance of dialogue vs. everything else felt so heavy that I couldn't get into the setting or the MC's head. I wasn't getting internal reflections on how the MC reacted to what the other person was saying, or descriptions of where they were, what they were doing, just a lot of back and forth talking. Speaking as a reader, I like variation.
 

KiwiinLondon

Registered
Joined
Nov 15, 2017
Messages
19
Reaction score
2
Another question for OP: do you characters ever sit and talk? You might want to see if you can entwine those scenes with some activity (ideally that's symbolic of something else relevant to the story)..

Not really - they're nearly always doing something - good point about them doing activity that's somewhat symbolic. Thanks!
 

Ji'ire

Registered
Joined
Feb 1, 2018
Messages
44
Reaction score
12
I write lots of dialogue heavy scenes, most often just putting two characters together and letting them talk.

My advice is it's okay for it to be long as long as you keep presenting the reader with fresh ideas or perspectives. Too much chit chat or banter will make the reader bored because there's no substance behind it. Similarly if you're going round in circles and just repeating the same points it's going to get stale.

You asked about what dialogue to cut, I'd try and ask yourself what parts you can get across without the characters having to say it. I'm constantly finding bits in my own writing that either didn't need to be said or simply just worked so much better being implied or silently said. The rule I use for this is to ask myself "Would they really say that?" (Usually I'll have noticed somethings not quite right about the bit) and compare it to real life. There are things that people don't want to talk about, wouldn't bother to mention or would just act instead. Speech is just one part of human interaction and is just as important as what we communicate without speaking.
 

AliceL

New Fish; Learning About [REDACTED]
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 10, 2018
Messages
53
Reaction score
8
Location
Earth Sector 17B-3.18
Action keeps user interest. I think action must keep user interest. This is an element of showing, but not to say that dialogue does not show (instead of tell). Maybe the dialogue is robotic for some, and more action may benefit these people.

I really want to emphasize this point here. If your novel has long strings of quotation lines without much character blocking or any described actions it could get a bit off and make it difficult for the reader to feel invested in the scene.

Action and blocking are very important as it will act as a nice contrast to pure dialogue. Also keep things varied with character positions and locations. For example if you have two characters talking in the living room of their apartment, it might help to have them move to the kitchen or the balcony during a break in the conversation (with reasoning that makes sense in the context of course). Also describing a character's body language as the speak is wonderful for showing and not telling.

Lastly, even more important than action is reaction. How do your character's expressions and body language change with the things that are said by them and to them? This'll add more life to the interaction and can give rise to natural changes in pacing say going from rapid fire back and forth exchange of words to someone going too far to where the other's reaction is complex enough to describe in a paragraph of a few sentences.
 

KiwiinLondon

Registered
Joined
Nov 15, 2017
Messages
19
Reaction score
2
The rule I use for this is to ask myself "Would they really say that?" (Usually I'll have noticed somethings not quite right about the bit) and compare it to real life. There are things that people don't want to talk about, wouldn't bother to mention or would just act instead. Speech is just one part of human interaction and is just as important as what we communicate without speaking.

I do the same thing! I've just started getting really critical with it in the last week and it's really effective.
 

Kalsik

Kalsik
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 14, 2018
Messages
51
Reaction score
2
Location
Brighton
Long dialogue can be a problem, but for me, I've found a way that helps. I read back the dialogue, only the dialogue, with pauses that would occur as long as they would by description. It seems odd, but imagining the scene playing out like a film or tv episode scene helps me verbally assess whether a dialogue exchange contains too much long-windedness.
My stories I'm sitting on drafts of are fine for story and plot, now my last stage of self editing is actually the dialogue itself, namely shortening it. Biggest hazard, as I'm in sci-fiction, is the expository dialogue moments. Its too easy for them to drag on too long.
 

Emissarius

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Dec 31, 2017
Messages
95
Reaction score
3
I don't think too much dialogue is a problem, especially in recent books. Having said that, I still balk when several pages of dialogue stare me in the face (including ones from my own manuscript). It just feels that the author hasn't taken his/her time in making sure every single word in their book was the best possible option. Back when I read Brandon Mull's Fablehaven books, I remember being put off by some of Kendra and Seth's dialogue. Many of them read kinda like this (I don't remember the exact sentences, though):

"Seth, you coming?"
"Sure."
"Think we'll find grandpa?"
"Worth a try."

Now imagine two pages that read like that! And I personally don't think it solves matters to be like:

Kendra stared. "Seth, you coming?"
Seth held his sister's eyes. "Sure."
"Think we'll find grandpa?"
"Worth a try," replied Seth, overtaking her.

Still feels lazy to me :( I feel so guilty when I write dialogues!
 

BethS

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Dec 21, 2005
Messages
11,708
Reaction score
1,763
Kendra stared. "Seth, you coming?"
Seth held his sister's eyes. "Sure."
"Think we'll find grandpa?"
"Worth a try," replied Seth, overtaking her.

The trick is not in adding incidental action, but in giving the dialogue meaning through internals and subtext. So let's see if we can spiff that up a little.

"Seth, you coming?"

A simple question with a complicated answer. Was he going to leave all he'd built out of the ruin of his life and traipse off into the wilderness to find an old man who was better off dead?

Kendra was staring at him, waiting for the answer that, to her, was obvious and expected. But then, she didn't know. He'd never told her the truth about their grandfather. "Sure," he said, though without enthusiasm.

She didn't seemed to notice. "Think we'll find him?" The uncertainty in her voice, the worry for a man who existed only in her imagination, made him feel like dirt. Made him angry, too.

"Worth a try." But maybe they wouldn't try very hard. Because if they found him, he just might have to kill the old man.
 
Last edited:

OneWhoWrites

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 7, 2015
Messages
55
Reaction score
11
One well-known author said he never puts more than two lines of dialogue back-to-back without some kind of action or description to break it up. While I think that's extreme, and he even admitted he's at the far end of the spectrum on dialogue, there is a kernel of truth there. It's not about how much dialogue you have in your work, it's about how you present it. If your characters regularly turn into talking heads for half a page or more, you either have too much dialogue, or you need to break it up more often.

My own writing tends to be heavy with dialogue. One tactic I used to minimize dialogue in a re-write was to have a character relive her backstory instead of telling it to the protagonist. Not only did I remove a massive chunk of dialogue broken up by the minimal amount of unnecessary reactions to avoid being a complete wall of text, but I was able to show what happened to her instead of just telling the reader.
 

Laer Carroll

Aerospace engineer turned writer
Super Member
Registered
Temp Ban
Joined
Sep 13, 2012
Messages
2,478
Reaction score
267
Location
Los Angeles
Website
LaerCarroll.com
LOTS of good suggestions. I'll add this.

If a speaker refers to an action or sequence of actions already detailed in the book we can break the speech with a brief reference to the action(s). Or a few summary sentences if a mere reference won't work, maybe because the action(s) happened much further back in the text.

What a speaker does NOT say can be as expressive as what s/he does say. Maybe a sentence which begins an abrupt change of subject. Or an awkward pause, or a glance to the side, or a hint of a smile or a frown.

This brings us to the unspoken parts of a dialogue, "spoken" with body language rather than voiced. This may serve several purposes. One is to communicate something which words cannot. A second is to include another speaker in the dialogue without giving them verbal speech. A third is to break up long quoted material, giving some visual variety to the text.