School Shooting in Parrkman, Florida

MaeZe

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I can't help but notice how, after every mass shooting, the accusations by the NRA spokespeople get louder and more strident. The Left hates freedom. They want to control everyone. They want to destroy democracy. Then the pro-NRA crowd goes on to propose dangerous and hare-brained schemes, like arming teachers, as solutions.

Meanwhile, the gun industry, far-right politicians, and the NRA, make more money after every mass killing. Who really has a conflict of interest? Who really has a secret agenda?

It's time the Left started calling BS on these people and exposing them for the liars they are.

The problem is, as is usual with the Left's arguments, they need data and evidence (which they have) to support, and data and evidence make most people yawn and think, "Too long, did not read."
Notice that the propaganda talking point shifted from "it's too soon to talk about it" to the latest one, "gun free school zones are creating targets." Both of those constantly-repeated-after-a-shooting talking points are easily refuted. But that doesn't matter because the message is repeated over and over until it becomes the talking point of news broadcasters.
 

Lyv

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The gun advocate Twitter talking point tonight is that the Hollywood elite are being protected by men (yes, they are saying "men") with guns at the Oscars so they have no business calling for gun control.
 

ElaineA

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There is a vile new NRATV 1 minute spot. I won't link to it--it's disgusting--but I'll quote this bit from a tweet. They are nothing but a propaganda organization of the lowest form.

"To every lying member of the media, to every Hollywood phony, to the role model athletes who use their free speech to alter and undermine what our flag represents...Your time is running out. The clock starts now."

The NRA is on a course to foment a civil war if it serves their aims, Americans be damned.
 

CWatts

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There is a vile new NRATV 1 minute spot. I won't link to it--it's disgusting--but I'll quote this bit from a tweet. They are nothing but a propaganda organization of the lowest form.

The NRA is on a course to foment a civil war if it serves their aims, Americans be damned.

Well the gun manufacturers could make a killing (!) selling to domestic insurgents while also supplying the increased demand from the military.

Like the old adage about hammers and nails - if all you have is a gun, every problem looks like someone to kill.
 

Roxxsmom

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And today's school shooting (not mass, no one hurt):

Armed teacher arrested after shooting at Georgia high school




We've had teachers forget guns and leave them unattended and shoot themselves accidentally in school, now teachers apparently intentionally shooting inside the school.

This information needs to be saved and circulated. Teachers have enough to deal with in their jobs without asking them to do something that is not and never has been in their job description. I'm supposed to add constant vigilance and awareness of the whereabouts of a gun to the multiple balls I have to keep in the air? My students think it's kind of funny when I lose my keys or my reading glasses in the classroom. It wouldn't be so "absent-minded-professor" cute if I forget where I left my gun, or if my gun falls out of my purse or pocket.

As for going around with a gun in a secure holster? That isn't intimidating or scary for students at all, is it? Even cops, who are supposed to be constantly vigilant and scanning their surrounding for threats, still occasionally have people grab their guns out of their holsters. It would be the easiest thing in the world for someone to grab a teacher's gun from a holster when said teacher is bent over, dealing with fussy lab equipment, or helping a student with a math problem or something.

Cops, who are trained and whose job description requires the use of lethal force in some circumstances, make enough tragic mistakes (and sometimes not mistakes) based on the volatility of situations, constant fear and heightened arousal states, and their conscious and unconscious prejudices and biases. How can anyone think teachers won't have even more problems, once they are authorized to employ lethal force in the classroom?

How can anyone think this is a good idea? Most Americans don't, according to polls. But something like 71% of Male Republicans think it's a great idea. Are they really all that stupid, or do they simply not care if it works as long as they get to keep their lethal "toys"?
 

frimble3

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How can anyone think this is a good idea? Most Americans don't, according to polls. But something like 71% of Male Republicans think it's a great idea. Are they really all that stupid, or do they simply not care if it works as long as they get to keep their lethal "toys"?
'Keep' their toys? How many of them are hoping that most teachers wimp out, so they can 'fill the gap'? Stroll around the school (preferable in a uniform) with a gun, hoping that something happens on their shift? Like Dirty Harry in retirement. A disaster waiting to happen. Especially surrounded by teenagers who aren't terribly respectful.
Anyone remember Robert Bates, that 'reserve deputy' in Oklahoma who killed a man? Like that, only with less screening and training.
 

DeleyanLee

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'Keep' their toys? How many of them are hoping that most teachers wimp out, so they can 'fill the gap'? Stroll around the school (preferable in a uniform) with a gun, hoping that something happens on their shift? Like Dirty Harry in retirement. A disaster waiting to happen. Especially surrounded by teenagers who aren't terribly respectful.
Anyone remember Robert Bates, that 'reserve deputy' in Oklahoma who killed a man? Like that, only with less screening and training.

Isn't that what George Zimmerman was doing when he shot Trayvon Martin? He wasn't authorized to do neighborhood patrol, but he was doing it anyway. Yeah, that's the height of good security practices.
 

Lyv

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Zimmerman not only appointed himself neighborhood watch person, but he also acted like a cop when doing the walkthrough with the police the next day, pointing to where Trayvon had died and calling him the "suspect." I remember testimony or statements that after the shooting but before the police got there, witnesses saw him leaning over the body and doing something that sounded like he was checking his pockets or something (the position of the body when police showed up doesn't match how it would have fallen if Zimmerman's story were true, and Zimmerman's account of what Trayvon said to him sounds like bad B movie dialog. If anyone wants me to dig up a link to the video, I will, but it's terrible (that and the video of him strutting into the police station after the shooting make me sick). He was having the best time, showing how he'd killed an unarmed teen, acting like he was one of the police, which is what he had wanted. I think he was itching to catch a burglar and spent a lot time "patrolling" so he could be a hero and prove he belonged on the police. He applied to be a police officer and was refused.


And there's Robert Bates a reserve deputy from Tulsa who ran up when police already had a suspect restrained, and shot the suspect with his gun, mistaking it for his taser. He shouldn't have even been there, but he was a good friend of the sheriff and a big donor to the department and they put him there. If I remember, he never even passed the testing. He's a different kind of Zimmerman: wants to walked around like a big tough guy and play cops and robbers.

I bet out of the few teachers who'd want to carry a gun in the classroom, there'd be a disproportionately high percentage of Zimmermans and Bates' and Volitich.
 

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... I bet out of the few teachers who'd want to carry a gun in the classroom, there'd be a disproportionately high percentage of Zimmermans and Bates' and Volitich.

Yes, I agree with this. I am a teacher, and I work with several people like this. The teachers I work with who would be the first to volunteer to carry a gun are the last ones who should ever be allowed to have a loaded gun in school (not that ANYONE should do it.)
 

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Yes, I agree with this. I am a teacher, and I work with several people like this. The teachers I work with who would be the first to volunteer to carry a gun are the last ones who should ever be allowed to have a loaded gun in school (not that ANYONE should do it.)

If teachers were able to carry guns into school when I was in highschool, etc there would've been numerous 'shooting incidents' annually(if not every semester.) The number of 'be a man' or 'd-bag' coaches, history teachers, etc who would fly off the handle at the dumbest crap ... it was absurd.
 

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I guess the question is not if giving guns to teachers or adding armor to classrooms or rehearsing active shooter drills every semester is a good idea. The real question, imho, is if this is the kind of world you want to live in.

-cb
 

Justobuddies

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The world I want to live in is the one where humans remember that there's not a secret to being a decent person. One just decides not to be an asshole, and then isn't an asshole.
 

Lyv

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Florida students say Betsy DeVos wouldn't speak with them during visit

Another student, Carly Novell, the editor of the school’s newspaper Eagle Eye, said she was allowed to photograph DeVos, but not accompany her on the campus tour.

“One student from each publication (TV prod/newspaper/yearbook) was able to see her and take pictures of her, no one followed her. We are part of school publication and it’s our job to report on a public figure visiting the school,” Novell said in one tweet.


“I thought she would at least give us her ‘thoughts and prayers,’ but she refused to even meet/speak with students. I don’t understand the point of her being here.”


DeVos’s visit to the Parkland school was closed to the press, and came on the first full day of lessons for students since the 14 February massacre that claimed the lives of three teachers and 14 of their classmates.
 

frimble3

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Easy test: any Americans here of an age to remember 'duck and cover' nuclear drills in school? Did any of that make you feel safer, or, in fact, do any good?
 

Lyv

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Easy test: any Americans here of an age to remember 'duck and cover' nuclear drills in school? Did any of that make you feel safer, or, in fact, do any good?
I remember my sisters telling me about duck and cover. And, funny, I was just thinking the other day that I belong to the lucky generations born too late for duck and cover, and too early for active shooter drills. I am heartsick.

I was also thinking about 1995, when there were already mass shootings and police informed my workplace that a former client had walked out of an emergency room, where he was to be admitted for an involuntary psych hold because he'd told them in detail how he was going to come shoot everyone. We knew who he was, knew he was unstable and had a grudge against my company, and knew there wasn't security at my building. I don't think anyone feared there would really be a shooting or at least didn't have the kind of fear we'd have today (and I tried to look up a mass shooting that took place in that building, though at a different business, years later, but try looking up "Orlando mass shooting." There are more than I remember).
 

Jolly-Boo

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http://www.ign.com/articles/2018/03...hite-house-to-discuss-violence-in-video-games

Well of course Marco Rubio is on that list.

I know Australia has somewhat stronger censorship laws, though I don't recall what they are. They'll surely try to implement anything as long as it takes the discussion away from gun control.

The idea of someone of Trump's age and general understanding of entertainment talking about video games is maddening, though.
 

Scribhneoir

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Easy test: any Americans here of an age to remember 'duck and cover' nuclear drills in school?

We did duck-and-cover drills regularly when I was in elementary school, but they weren't for nuclear attacks. They were for earthquakes. I was absolutely dumbfounded the first time I heard (long after I was grown up) of duck-and-cover drills for nuclear bombs. Sheltering under your desk is a useful plan for earthquakes, but quite pointless for nuclear devastation.
 

Roxxsmom

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We did duck-and-cover drills regularly when I was in elementary school, but they weren't for nuclear attacks. They were for earthquakes. I was absolutely dumbfounded the first time I heard (long after I was grown up) of duck-and-cover drills for nuclear bombs. Sheltering under your desk is a useful plan for earthquakes, but quite pointless for nuclear devastation.

I saw a show on TV a while back that mentioned that some of these measures were responses to the early atomic bombs which were far less destructive than the H-bombs that came later. If you're near ground zero, nothing would help, but if people were a bit further away, then ducking and covering (or retreating to underground shelters) might help. The development of hydrogen bombs, and the development of huge nuclear stockpiles, precipitated the understanding that a nuclear war would likely destroy society and that the immediate survivors might be unluckiest of all.

Now we live in the era of shooter drills. Even more than nuclear war, there are things we can do to prevent these shootings, or at least to make them more rare, but we refuse to do it as a society. Yes, the majority of people want stronger gun laws, but unless people vote for politicians who support these laws, nothing will change.

If people voted to support the positions they claim to have in polls, then it wouldn't matter how much money the NRA gives the pro-gun politicians.

The gun advocate Twitter talking point tonight is that the Hollywood elite are being protected by men (yes, they are saying "men") with guns at the Oscars so they have no business calling for gun control.

Ah yes, hypocrites pointing fingers and calling hypocrisy. They have no shame at all in that regard. Someone needs to remind the GOP that it didn't want its convention attendees to be allowed to carry. What happened to their faith in "good guys with guns" being able to take down potential shooters and save lives there?

Yes, I agree with this. I am a teacher, and I work with several people like this. The teachers I work with who would be the first to volunteer to carry a gun are the last ones who should ever be allowed to have a loaded gun in school (not that ANYONE should do it.)


A classic catch 22, isn't it. As far as I know, none of my co-workers would want to carry a gun in the classroom, at least not in my department. There's one guy in the whole department who voted for Trump, because he bought the whole "need a businessman to promote responsible government spending" thing, but he's since come to admit that Trump is crazy.
 
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cbenoi1

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The video games, like movies, already have violence gradation labels. ( link )

So. What prevents Granny from buying video games for X-Mas? Nothing.

Me bet that's going to be a very short meeting.

*Back to my Sudoku.*

-cb
 

Roxxsmom

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Trump is great at coming up with "brilliant" solutions someone else has already thought of, like ratings systems for movies and video games. It's all to divert attention from any real policy that could provide real solutions.

It's not in the interest of the NRA to stop the shootings, nor is it in the interest of right-wing politicians who tend to be elected by frightened people.
 

cbenoi1

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Teacher accidentally fires gun and injures student during safety lesson

https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/14/us/california-teacher-fires-gun/index.html

Dennis Alexander, who is Seaside City's mayor pro tem and a reserve officer with the Sand City Police Department, was teaching a lesson at Seaside High School in Seaside, California when he pointed his gun into the ceiling and accidentally fired it, said Abdul Pridgen, the city's police chief. A 17-year-old student was injured by a bullet fragment or by debris that fell off the ceiling, Pridgen said. The student's injuries appeared superficial and were not life threatening, police said.
Errrr..... oooops?

The student's father Fermin Gonzales said he understands that it was an accident but said that "somebody could have died." {...} Gonzales said Tuesday's incident changed his views about President Donald Trump's recent proposal to arm teachers. "I was kinda leaning toward having armed people in school in case something happened. After today, I get why people say there should be no guns in schools," Gonzales said.

-cb
 

nighttimer

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What makes America terrible is the freedom we have to buy and own weapons designed for nothing but to take life in a cruelly quick and efficient manner. :guns:

What makes America terrific is the freedom we have to stand up and rally in numbers for the noble cause of protecting and preserving life. :e2grouphu:TheWave:

The kids are showing us how it's done.

Students and teachers at more than 2,000 schools across the country staged a national walkout to call for an end to gun violence on Wednesday, one month after 17 people were killed in a mass shooting at a Florida high school.


At Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Fla., the scene of the Feb. 14 massacre, hundreds of students and administrators streamed out of the school and onto the football field, where they held a moment of silence in honor of the shooting victims. The Parkland students were then joined by students from nearby schools as they marched to Pine Trails Park, the site of several memorials for victims since last month’s killings.


The walkout in Parkland came a day after Broward County prosecutor Michael Satz said he would seek the death penalty against Nikolas Cruz, the 19-year-old gunman accused of carrying out the rampage at Stoneman Douglas.


At Newtown High School in Connecticut, hundreds of students gathered in the parking lot, holding signs and chanting, “We want change.” Several students climbed atop a Jeep Wrangler covered in “End Gun Violence” placards to deliver speeches to the crowd.


The school is located less than two miles from Sandy Hook Elementary School, where 20 children and six adults were killed on Dec. 14, 2012, in one of the deadliest school shootings in U.S. history.


In Littleton, Colo., some parents of the victims of the 1999 mass shooting at Columbine High School planned to join students in their walkout to protest gun violence.


The nationwide walkouts were supposed to last 17 minutes in honor of the Parkland victims. But many of them lasted much longer.


In New York City, more than 1,000 students descended on Brooklyn Borough Hall, where they stayed for more than two hours, delivering speeches from a bullhorn and chanting anti-gun-violence slogans. Among them: “Rise up, guns down!”

We have failed our children. We have sat back and allowed our elected representatives cravenly whore themselves out to the gun lobby and bow down to the radical fanaticism of the National Rifle Association. Nobody is coming to save these kids. Donald Trump won't do it. Mitch McConnell and Paul Ryan won't do it. Charles Schumer and Nancy Pelosi won't do it. Politicians could be and should be part of the solution, but all they've done is perpetuate the problem by talkin' loud and doin' nothing.

Time is running out, alright, but it's running out for the NRA and the paid courtesans they employ in Congress. They're worthless, they're useless and the sooner they're on the streets and out of power the better it will be, and if the adults are too sleepy, too fat, too slow, too stupid, too disconnected, too apathetic to get off their dead asses and DO SOMETHING to save these kids, then they have no other choice but to do it themselves.

Because.
That.
Is.
The.
ONLY.
WAY.
This.
Shit.
Will.
EVER
STOP.


America is not great because of its military might, its limitless wealth, its commerce, its arts and culture, its history or any of that stuff. America is great because of its future and its the children today who will be the adults tomorrow who bring that glorious future to life.

But not if they're dead. Not if fiends like Nicholas Cruz are allowed to get their dirty hands and depraved minds of weapons of mass destruction like an AR-15.

“Protest is when I say I don't like this. Resistance is when I put an end to what I don't like. Protest is when I say I refuse to go along with this anymore. Resistance is when I make sure everybody else stops going along too.”
― Ulrike Marie Meinhof
 

Lyv

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225 Pennridge students to get detention over walkouts

On Twitter, they are @NeverAgainPenn, with the name Pennridge 25. They just tweeted a video of the first group to serve detention.

46 of the #Pennridge225 served the first Saturday morning detention today. Pennridge students wore Parkland victims' names and sat, arms linked, for the whole detention. A modern sit in.

The video is worth a watch, especially if you need some encouragement to keep going in whatever you might be fighting for.

And in Alabama, weeks after a white teacher in that state was put on leave for telling a black student to "Turn the n****** tunes off," a bill to allow teachers to open carry in the classroom was approved in committee. I am so proud of and grateful to the students all over the country fighting bills like that, fighting to make things better. I hope to march with them (well, sit on my walker seat with a sign in Boston) next weekend.
 

frimble3

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And, hopefully the Parrkman shooting is having some results (positive ones): http://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world...-drops-out-amid-outrage/ar-BBKp03l?li=AAggNb9
Yes, he was running uncontested, but he got so much blowback that he dropped out. And, after a plea from a survivor for someone, anyone, from any party, to run against him:both one of his fellow Republicans, and a Democrat threw their hats in the ring. Don't know how they'll do, or what they'll do, or if they'll be any better, but at least they'll go in knowing that people (and the voters of tomorrow) are watching.
Although I'm kind of surprised that a third party candidate or an independent didn't see their chance and go for it.