School Shooting in Parrkman, Florida

Catherine

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Some people are saying the students are being used as political pawns of the Democrats. The people saying those things are seriously underestimating the anger and determination of these young people.

Their determination gives me hope. It should be striking fear in the politicians who accept money from the NRA.
 
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mccardey

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Not necessarily stupid. They have an agenda, and part of it relies on discrediting every group who opposes their agenda as either self serving or deluded.
yes - I was about to edit.

Some people are so bloody venal it makes children die.
 

ZachJPayne

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Not necessarily stupid. They have an agenda, and part of it relies on discrediting every group who opposes their agenda as either self serving or deluded.

Exactly this.

I've spent a good chunk of the last few days on Twitter, reporting the trolls that come into the kids's mentions. And the bullshit rhetoric that they're spouting, the delusional doublethink they're pulling off, it's just ... it's heartbreaking. One of the kids spent a better part of a livestream they did the other night, trying to convince people that they weren't paid actors.
 

cornflake

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I'm sure there are already the youtubes claiming the entire thing was a staged false flag operation, no one was shot, yada yada, look, this is an actor!! I'm not going looking for them; I watched a whole Sandy Hook one once, which insisted one of the parents was also a SWAT member (because if the U.S. Gov't, always so conservative with their spending, were going to stage an event like that, they'd have actors doing double duty, not just.. bring enough? Aside from the eleven thousand other obvious reasons the whole conspiracy theory makes zero sense), except you could clearly see they were two different people with vaguely similar builds and features.

People that deep in the hole are just unreachable, imo. There's no reasoning with someone who is determined to believe that level of nonsense.
 

BenPanced

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I quit trying to even comprehend that bullshit the first and only time I watched one that purported 9/11 was staged.

(The first time I encountered a conspiracy theory video was late, late night local access cable TV. It was a video about The Black Helicopters™ and how the New World Order was going to be ushered in by the UN marching US citizens to internment camps, the evacuation paths marked by special color-coded tags on the backs of traffic signs. I knew the whole thing was horseshit right then and there because I'd seen these tags before I'd even watched this video and looked at a couple one day to find they were only labels that showed the company that manufactured them. But at 3:30 in the morning, I was almost convinced about The Black Helicopters™.)
 

ZachJPayne

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People that deep in the hole are just unreachable, imo. There's no reasoning with someone who is determined to believe that level of nonsense.

And, yet, we're branded as intolerant if we refuse to give them a seat at the table and listen to their side of the story.
 

Kjbartolotta

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I quit trying to even comprehend that bullshit the first and only time I watched one that purported 9/11 was staged.

(The first time I encountered a conspiracy theory video was late, late night local access cable TV. It was a video about The Black Helicopters™ and how the New World Order was going to be ushered in by the UN marching US citizens to internment camps, the evacuation paths marked by special color-coded tags on the backs of traffic signs. I knew the whole thing was horseshit right then and there because I'd seen these tags before I'd even watched this video and looked at a couple one day to find they were only labels that showed the company that manufactured them. But at 3:30 in the morning, I was almost convinced about The Black Helicopters™.)

I constantly wonder what it is about the conspiracy rabbit hole that seems to be making people so mindlessly authoritarian and irresponsible. Is it something baked into the mindset of the audience, or is there something insidious in the message itself? It's been constantly mutating over the last few decades, I remember when 9/11 Truthers were predominantly a liberal (or at least Anti-Bush) lot. Then Coast to Coast and AboveTopSecret became subtle propaganda factories & David Icke got in on it, Alex Jones came along, something something birth certificate, and you know the rest. I guess the continuous thread is the anger it always taps into, and the weird gnosticism.

Anyways, I've been down every single one of the these rabbits holes and stayed down some for years, its never changed me into anything other than an anodyne liberal. So I'll never get it, but it's so goddam effective on so many people it terrifies me.
 
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Chris P

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The way these kids are rising up in their grief and anger is unlike anything that I've ever seen in my life.

Maybe it's stupid of me to be so optimistic or hopeful that anything can change after Sandy Hook, but these kids are old enough that they can do one thing the Sandy Hook kids can't: they can stand in front of cameras, get on social media, yell, scream, and demand change.

People underestimate teenagers, and especially teenage girls. But this?

I don't know. Maybe this will be enough. Maybe this is it.

These kids are a politician's worst nightmare. Visible, vocal, and soon able to vote.

These kids are Hope.

They are. They're amazing. And I'm angry and ashamed that the adults in this country have left this to them.

This. This. This. And this.

But they can't do it on their own. They don't know how the system works yet. They don't have the contacts in state houses or Washington. They don't have access to the organization and mobilization structures (or money) real change is going to need. What's going to keep their 15 minutes of inspiring spotlight from fading into the past? Answer: Direction and guidance from the Baby Boomers, Gen Xers and Millennials currently with the connections and experience. Nobody here has said it's all on the teens, I get that, so what's next? If one of those high schoolers called up and asked what to do next, what would we say? What can we do to help?

ETA: Sarcastic lol from today's Pearls before Swine strip.
 
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cbenoi1

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ElaineA

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But they can't do it on their own. They don't know how the system works yet. They don't have the contacts in state houses or Washington. They don't have access to the organization and mobilization structures (or money) real change is going to need. What's going to keep their 15 minutes of inspiring spotlight from fading into the past? Answer: Direction and guidance from the Baby Boomers, Gen Xers and Millennials currently with the connections and experience. Nobody here has said it's all on the teens, I get that, so what's next? If one of those high schoolers called up and asked what to do next, what would we say? What can we do to help?

ETA: Sarcastic lol from today's Pearls before Swine strip.

If you listened to Emma Gonzales's speech, you'd see they actually DO know how the system works. Better than a lot of BB's and GenXers. Better than anyone who thought a real estate mogul could actually save their plant or mine, better than anyone who thought a billionaire gave a rat's ass about an unemployed factory worker. I'll take these kids and their youthful fury.

The organization and mobilization structures best come to THEM. These are eloquent voices, and they are part of an ever-growing club of Survivors of Mass-shootings. There are the Columbine survivors, and the VT survivors, the parents and siblings of Sandy Hook. All of them together, backed by the majority of Americans who support sensible gun regulation, can change this. As Cameron Kasky, one of the Parkland teens, said this morning:

This isn’t about the GOP or the Democrats. This is about us creating a badge of shame for any politician who is accepting money from the NRA and using us as collateral.

Powerful.
 

Larry M

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If you listened to Emma Gonzales's speech, you'd see they actually DO know how the system works. Better than a lot of BB's and GenXers. Better than anyone who thought a real estate mogul could actually save their plant or mine, better than anyone who thought a billionaire gave a rat's ass about an unemployed factory worker. I'll take these kids and their youthful fury.

The organization and mobilization structures best come to THEM. These are eloquent voices, and they are part of an ever-growing club of Survivors of Mass-shootings. There are the Columbine survivors, and the VT survivors, the parents and siblings of Sandy Hook. All of them together, backed by the majority of Americans who support sensible gun regulation, can change this. As Cameron Kasky, one of the Parkland teens, said this morning:



Powerful.

Yes, yes, yes.

These kids are smart, vocal, "woke," and ready to take on the world for the better. They aren't looking to tear things down, they want to make things right.
 

Cyia

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The biggest mistake anyone can make with the students who go through these events is labeling them "kids." They're not kids. They're survivors. They've survived a terrorist attack. They've survived live fire. They've survived their worst fears. They've been through a crucible most non-combatant people can't imagine. After that, why should they be afraid of anything or anyone?

All the fear's burnt off leaving only anger and determination.That's a social paradigm shift.
 
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Kjbartolotta

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The biggest mistake anyone can make with the students who go through these events is labeling them "kids." They're not kids. They're survivors. They've survived a terrorist attack. They've survived live fire. They've survived their worst fears. They've been through a crucible most non-combatant people can't imagine. After that, why should they be afraid of anything or anyone?

All the fear's burnt off leaving only anger and determination.That's a social paradigm shift.

I wish I could have done what these kids are doing when I was in HS during the Columbine days. They are showing me up, and I can only feel admiration.
 

Jolly-Boo

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Rubio spouting NRA-speak to foment fear and BUY MOAR GUNS mentality, give me a break (not aimed at you, Jolly-Boo). He's such a tool. Yes, people *could* buy black market guns, but it's not like there would be open-air stands on corners next to Starbucks. The idea that a suburban Florida teenager (in this case) would easily be able to purchase a black market gun and ammo goes into the "yeah, technically, but not super likely" category for me, not the least because if they were only available on the black market, they'd be expensive. Then there's the planning, and the meet.

We're never going to make "guns" illegal in this country. We could make AR-15s illegal again, though. Even Scalia agreed certain classes of weapons could be deemed illegal outside of military use when the previous assault weapons ban came before the court.

When I see videos of adults impressing (ran out of words) their gun-loving onto their children, it just breaks my heart. And eventually they'll just end up replacing their parent's in this struggle.

If I were a cop in an open-carry state I'd be incredibly nervous, all the time. Especially considering how I'm carrying a hang gun, and the civilians are carrying rifles.

I'm unclear if you are agreeing with this or being sarcastic.

I'm being sarcastic.
 
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lizmonster

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If you listened to Emma Gonzales's speech, you'd see they actually DO know how the system works. Better than a lot of BB's and GenXers. Better than anyone who thought a real estate mogul could actually save their plant or mine, better than anyone who thought a billionaire gave a rat's ass about an unemployed factory worker. I'll take these kids and their youthful fury.

To be entirely clear about the intent of what I said: I know these kids see the world for what it is.

I'm angry that they're the ones left to deal with it, especially when their current political power is limited.

And I want to avoid the idea that we can all say "Oh, what a relief! The Kids are on it now!" and let these people who we're supposed to be looking after take the brunt of what it will take to make a change.

I'm not trying to silence or belittle them at all. My kid's 13, and she and her friends give me such hope for the future. But we can't just drop it on them, no matter how powerfully they're speaking. We're responsible for them. (Yeah, I guess I'm an "it takes a village" sort of person.) As much as they're speaking out and being eloquent and raging publicly, we need to do it too. We've let them down so much, letting it get to this point.
 

ElaineA

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I'm not trying to silence or belittle them at all. My kid's 13, and she and her friends give me such hope for the future. But we can't just drop it on them, no matter how powerfully they're speaking. We're responsible for them. (Yeah, I guess I'm an "it takes a village" sort of person.) As much as they're speaking out and being eloquent and raging publicly, we need to do it too. We've let them down so much, letting it get to this point.

I'm with you, Liz, I'm just willing to let their voices lead. We have to back them up, of course, but I don't think we're in any position to herd them. As Cyia said, they're tempered by growing up in this post-911/free-for-all gun-culture society, and as Shakey says, there are times when the younger people absolutely have the right of it, when their parents and grandparents failed.

I've been vocal about gun-control since high school, fruitlessly. I'm happy to stand behind these kids now, and support them in every way possible, but they're the ones with the authority to speak. I'm not a school shooting survivor. They are.
 

lizmonster

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I'm with you, Liz, I'm just willing to let their voices lead. We have to back them up, of course, but I don't think we're in any position to herd them. As Cyia said, they're tempered by growing up in this post-911/free-for-all gun-culture society, and as Shakey says, there are times when the younger people absolutely have the right of it, when their parents and grandparents failed.

Wish I could find it now, but there was someone on Twitter last night who asked teenagers only to respond with their feelings about gun control, and they responded in droves.

What an articulate bunch. There were a wide variety of answers, but there was one thing that was absolutely consistent: even the most avid gun supporters said things like "but c'mon, nobody needs an AR-15."

Also, ABC is reporting that the students are planning a march on Washington. I've heard rumors of local events and school walk-outs; I'm waiting for the dates to settle.
 

Lyv

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Popped onto Twitter and saw in my feed a tweet that Emma Gonzalez joined (@Emma4Change). She was at 2600 or so followers when I started following her a few minutes ago. I hit refresh a few times, and she is at 3700 and counting. For info on marches, I am also following @NeverAgainMSD and @AMarchforOurLives.
 

MaeZe

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I remember when some kids got fed up with social issues, like segregation, hypocrisy and some war in South east Asia, back about 50 years ago. --s6

:Thumbs:

Social media is their thing and a number of the kids really let Trump have it in their Tweets after 45 Tweeted some crap about the real culprit being the FBI failure and their time-wasting investigating Russia.
 

JJ Litke

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I remember when some kids got fed up with social issues, like segregation, hypocrisy and some war in South east Asia, back about 50 years ago. --s6

I remember that, too. Feels like history just repeating itself again here.

And I want to avoid the idea that we can all say "Oh, what a relief! The Kids are on it now!" and let these people who we're supposed to be looking after take the brunt of what it will take to make a change.

I'm not trying to silence or belittle them at all. My kid's 13, and she and her friends give me such hope for the future. But we can't just drop it on them, no matter how powerfully they're speaking. We're responsible for them. (Yeah, I guess I'm an "it takes a village" sort of person.) As much as they're speaking out and being eloquent and raging publicly, we need to do it too. We've let them down so much, letting it get to this point.

I admit I've been extremely uncomfortable with all the rhetoric I'm seeing all over social media about how the kids are going to save us. No, they aren't, not if it's just dumped on them to handle on their own. They shouldn't have to, either.

If we truly did leave it to them and they pulled it off, I wouldn't be surprised for their solution to look a lot like Logan's Run.
 

Chris P

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