Question regarding intimate (sex) scene in general fiction

Laer Carroll

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What is the point of taking out anything just because it can be taken out? As long as it gives pleasure to the reader, let it stay.

The point of taking out a scene, in one viewpoint, is that every scene must develop character, setting, or plot - the three basic ingredients of every story.

It's a very utilitarian view. Putting in stuff just because it gives pleasure is BAD. Many will label a sex scene - OR ANY SCENE - that has no other purpose than pleasure as "gratuitous" - "being without apparent reason, cause, or justification" according to dictionaries.

That's fine for the taker-outers. Every artist must decide what standards they choose for creating their art. But I see the utilitarian view as almost Puritanical. A judgment that sex for pleasure's sake is somehow bad. As is a fight scene just because our readers will enjoy it, enjoy the grim art of the violence, or enjoy the triumph over an enemy. As is a description of a lyrically lovely forest, or dank back alley full of shadows and menace.

Another view is that just-for-fun scenes take away from the flow of the story from beginning to end. In this view there's only so much text available to tell a story, and it's wasteful to spend that text on gratuitous sex or violence or touristy lingering on setting. Including "gratuitous" scenes risks alienating the readers who want a quick read that sweeps them toward a resolution.

I take another view, developed over all-too-many decades of reading many, many books which were financially and critically successful - and included gratuitous scenes which I could not for the life of me see as serving any purpose but fun. There's nothing wrong with such scenes. In fact, they may be a big part of making the books successful.

Whether you lean toward the utilitarian or the hedonist view you may want to follow a practice a famous author once suggested. In the first draft put any damned thing you want, every inspiration that occurs to you, every incidental scrap that comes to mind, whether you see a use for it or not. Then do a rewrite in which you evaluate each scene for whether it should be changed or deleted.
 
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Lady Ice

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A common problem with sex scenes in literature is that what you might find titillating is not the same as what the reader finds titillating. Unless your novel is meant to be erotic, leave the ins and outs to the reader's imagination, unless it's dramatically important.

Writing a clean version and a smutty version will draw unnecessary attention to the scenes. Stick with your decision and if the readers want to skip those scenes, they can.
 

maggiee19

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Some of my sex scenes are erotic and some aren't. I guess it depends on how I'm feeling at the moment.
 

Harlequin

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Purpose is a tricky thing to define. To take an extreme example, an low-effort industry romance following a beatsheat might have a sex scene on page 98, because the beatsheet says one must occur here, irrespective of whether it suits the story, characters, emotional arc, etc at that point.

Will it entertain the reader--probably, or such books wouldn't get read. Is it adding much by being there--hard to say, depends on the book. Sometimes extraneous stuff will annoy, sometimes you can get away with it.

but if someone is dithering over whether to include a scene, looking at whether it adds anything is a perfectly good measuring stick for whether you can devote space and wordcount.
 

Lakey

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Some of my sex scenes are erotic and some aren't. I guess it depends on how I'm feeling at the moment.

And, it depends on what the sex scene is doing there. One of the sex scenes in my novel is decidedly unerotic; the point of the scene is that the sex is unpleasant for the POV character. The sex scene in the much-talked about New Yorker story “Cat Person” that circulated recently traced its own arc through the POV character’s attempts to convince herself she was enjoying it and ultimate failure of it for her, and the beginnings of the feelings of weirdness and humiliation that followed.

The other sex scenes in my novel are (I hope) more erotic. The emotional focus of each scene is different. Sacrifice, confidence, release, discovery, and so on.

I suppose that’s how I would evaluate whether a sex scene has a purpose in a story; consider what the scene demonstrates about the characters, or how the sex itself advances their emotional arc, in addition to (or instead of) entertaining the reader with eroticism.
 

Laer Carroll

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A common problem with sex scenes in literature is that what you might find titillating is not the same as what the reader finds titillating.

Good point. Every reader is different, and we can never satisfy them all. A dash of bondage/discipline may turn on some and turn off others. Some will want more and some less description, details, imagery.

Too, women and men generally react differently to a sex scene, though there's a lot of variations and overlap. Men tend to appreciate the visual more, women the verbal. Men want explicit details, women more allusion. Though, to repeat, those are only tendencies.
 

Jan74

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If there has been a real build up for these characters and they finally get together then glazing over it or shutting the door is offensive to the reader(in my opinion). A novelist I really love did this and it pissed me off, not enough to toss the book but I was frustrated that these two people I'd been routing for FINALLY got together and then BAM the door was slammed in my face. I think the author was scared to write a sex scene and it showed. I don't need erotic detailed sex in the story, but I need the passion and the motions that go along with two people finally getting together. If the characters hooking up isn't important then by all means glaze over it and show me them having a smoke later, but dang it....if I've been reading and hoping and there's all this tension and build up, I better get more than a cigarette, I bet get some heat and steam.

Just write it out and you can edit it later. A well written scene can have your reader breathless and wanting more, but to be honest, I would rather laugh through a horrible sex scene than have the door slammed in my face. If it's bad I just laugh at it and flip the page, if I'm denied I get pissed off that the author treated me like a child who couldn't handle the intimacy.
 

blackcat777

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I don't need erotic detailed sex in the story, but I need the passion and the motions that go along with two people finally getting together.

This x1000. The author can be graphic emotionally without being graphic physically. If the tension builds and it isn't released, the book is like a deflated balloon.
 

The Black Prince

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Already some excellent advice in the posts above. I think the first question is: is your book the sort of book that would benefit from a sex scene (or three)? If yes, it must be tonally set so the scene happens naturally and doesn't stick out like dogs' balls.

Having decided that yes, sex would help the story, then there are certain other storytelling requisites which need to be addressed, which I've written about here: https://adriandeans.wordpress.com/2012/04/30/how-to-write-an-excellent-bonking-scene/
 

Tocotin

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konstantineblacke

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My wife loves reading erotica novels, and after getting through the first chapter of one of them I needed to rinse my eyeballs out with bleach. It was wall to wall with sex, then just for good measure, more sex was thrown in. There wasn't really much of a story, other than billionaire man (who is so handsome and has a big you know what) and gets what he wants with plenty of women, but one woman always 'tames' him. So I used to believe put in a sex scene if it's important to the story...not any more. :roll:
 
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konstantineblacke

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Well, if it's an erotica novel, a lot of sex is sort of expected...

Of course. But authors are sneaking them into other genres as well, here and there and willy-nilly because of the popularity of erotica
 

Tocotin

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Is it because of popularity of erotica, or is it because writing erotic scenes is no longer taboo?

Honestly, I don't see what is wrong with having sex scenes more casually, not necessarily because the characters love/hate each other deeply and passionately. I'd like to see more scenes where a character engages in sexual activity (any sort of, not only plain old coitus) because they feel grateful, or lonely, or cold, or what have you.
 
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Albedo

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Reading this thread I'm kinda wondering if two characters going through all the motions together then realising they don't want to bonk isn't seen as realistic, or is regarded as something being taken from the reader. Sometimes sexual tension IS deflated, or it was false (or one-sided) in the first place. It's reasonable in erotica to expect sexual tension to always progress to sex, for sure, but what about other genres?
 

Tocotin

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I guess this might depend on both the setup and the reader, and how the author chose to present their world and characters up to this point. If the book feels slightly escapist and the reader is led to believe that some fabulous & wish-fulfilling action is going to take place, and one of the characters goes "nope"... then maybe. But again, it's all in the execution.
 

blackcat777

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I love awkward sex. In books.

Isn't the point of writing to strip characters down to their vulnerabilities? Being naked is generally considered a state of vulnerability. If a character is totally blase about being exposed to another person/people, why? That's interesting.

I'd like to see more scenes where a character engages in sexual activity (any sort of, not only plain old coitus) because they feel grateful, or lonely, or cold, or what have you.

Any of these things, when explored at the right depth, with the right psychological lens, could be profoundly interesting.

While I never had a cigar, I definitely rolled up a psych textbook chapter or two about Freud and smoked it. ;) My general reaction to people doing anything at all also tends to be: WHY?? WHY are you doing this?? So when it's finally time to write a sex scene, I can slap down an entire novel's worth of answers.

Sometimes sexual tension IS deflated, or it was false (or one-sided) in the first place

Dissatisfaction is as rife with interesting narrative possibility as satisfaction.
 

The Black Prince

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Erotica is all about the sex. It's a story vehicle for sex.

Sex in a non-erotica story is part of the story.

I don't think erotica is creeping into mainstream novels - I think it's been there for ever. Ever since DH Lawrence at any rate, just evolving as society evolves.
 

Elle.

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Is it because of popularity of erotica, or is it because writing erotic scenes is no longer taboo?

Honestly, I don't see what is wrong with having sex scenes more casually, not necessarily because the characters love/hate each other deeply and passionately. I'd like to see more scenes where a character engages in sexual activity (any sort of, not only plain old coitus) because they feel grateful, or lonely, or cold, or what have you.

I agree with you - sex is so much more in real life than just two people who have feelings for each other. I don't know if you've read Eimear McBride's books? The Lesser Bohemians has quite a few sex scenes, and they are about confusion, abuse, self-abuse, attraction, revenge, desire to please, self-discovery and there are descriptions but viewed through the eyes and the mind of the MC, and you understand so much about her, and her relationships because of that. Then her other book, A Girl is A Half Formed Thing, has sex in it too and none of it is about a loving relationship, it's actually in a way a story about someone's life and self-esteem shaped by bad sexual relationships. I personally think sex is a healthy and unhealthily part of lives and if the story calls for it, it should be included. Of course, I'm talking about general fiction, and I'm saying it should be there on every single occasion.
 

Albedo

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Dissatisfaction is as rife with interesting narrative possibility as satisfaction.
Mmm. I guess I'm wondering more about inaction. Characters ending up not having sex, rather than having dissatisfying sex, and I suppose more to the point, realising they're happy with that. I want to read more characters like that.