#metoo in the kidlit industry

Read and passionately discussed it in my little circle of booksellers. Anne is an idol of mine, and not just for the Real Boy but her outspokenness as well.

I also, right around the same time I read the article yesterday, noticed Maureen Johnson dropping some hints about a person who's time is just about up. If this is the person I think it is (and not an editor, as we also theorized), then there's been quite a long track record of abuses like this and we've know about it for a long time, not to mention a Million Little other controversies. I can't wait to get them off my shelves and let that horrible name be forgotten forever (pen name or otherwise).

Names are coming out in publishing industry. Some of these include my long-time idols, Sherman Alexie, James Dashner, and Jay Asher (the three of them have multiple accusations). Blerrrrrr. I am heartsick for all the victims, and horrified by how so many well-respected figures in the publishing industry have abused their positions of power to prey on women.

This sounds eerily reminiscent of what has been going on in the SFF genre, both with publishing and fandom, for some time. I always assumed it was bad in SFF because it still is something of an "old boy's club" which is (reluctantly in some quarters) becoming more diverse. That it can happen in a publishing category that runs to female authors suggests that the fix isn't just going to be getting more women into various fields.

What's interesting is that in SFF, while there's been a move to have harassment policies in place at conferences and so on, the general feeling is that a person's personal behavior should be separate from their art. Or in other words, if said august writer that everyone admires was also someone no woman wanted to be alone with in an elevator, that shouldn't dissuade any of us from reading their work (even if they are no longer invited as guests of honor at cons).

Will the same sentiment prevail in children's publishing, or has the #metoo movement made it so people feel more comfortable talking about not wanting to read or interact with the verified abusers in any way?

Marissa D said:

There are certain "cultural" issues in the kidlit world that need to be changed. I don't know if they will, but I think (hope?) a big enough candle has been lit to at least remove some of the darkness.

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I hope so. I hope it shines some light in all the dark corners.

Marissa D said:

I don't think that sentiment will prevail because of the nature of kidlit--the ultimate consumers are, after all, kids. And it feels incredibly squicky for someone who has been an extreme sexual predator (grooming their victims for up to a year) to be looked up to the way rock star kidlit authors and illustrators are. A YA author last year lost his agent through being a total dick on his blog (not in real space, IOW.) I will be very curious to see what happens with these people in the next week or so.

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Me too.

There's a very different cultural feel to the #metoo movement than there was with the issue with the SFWA bulletin and other SFF community scandals a few years back. For all the detractors and people who are hand wringing and agonizing over things "going too far," few are defending the sexist behavior itself. This is really different from the SFF situation, where many people were defending the bad actors as products of their time or were insisting that such behavior was "all in good fun" and perfectly normal.

Kidlit is different, because there's a more wholesome image to uphold, and there isn't a storied past where pictures of women in chain mail bikinis (or less) were commonplace cover art. Still, I suspect the exposure of the dark underbelly of children's publishing after metoo will have an effect on how it plays out. There seems to be less tolerance for "rockstar" serial harassers than in the past.

What is maddening for me is how people haven't made the connection between the gender gap, the leaky talent pipelines in many professions, the glass ceiling and this kind of shit. Gee, if women leave in various professions are experiencing more harassment, it makes sense that they would change jobs more often, and frequently accept lower-status positions, or even leave a discipline or industry entirely. Has it occurred to anyone how much money might be lost, not to mention what work of beauty and significance may never see the light of day, when talented people aren't able to develop to their full potential?

I've been following the situation for a few days and the whole thing is just heartbreaking. I'm sick for all of the victims who've had to deal with this over the years. Back to what Marissa D said, the real tragedy here is that so many children look up to sexual predators because they're good/decent writers. It's terrifying that these people are freely around kids and young adults, and influencing them.

One account that got me was one where the woman who was harassed (by a man who initially presented himself as a potential mentor who was interested in her talent) no longer writes. Who knows what stories she had to tell that no one will ever see now?

Multiply this by thousands or more.

Marissa D said:

PW is reporting now: https://www.publishersweekly.com/pw...in-children-s-publishing-comes-to-a-head.html

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So it appears that Diaz had a reputation for this kind of thing even before the Metoo movement. He'd been temporarily banned and required to attend anti-harassment training before being reinstated. All this suggests that, in some cases at least, lighter penalties and education have no effect.

Roxxsmom said:

The general feeling is that a person's personal behavior should be separate from their art. Or in other words, if said august writer that everyone admires was also someone no woman wanted to be alone with in an elevator, that shouldn't dissuade any of us from reading their work (even if they are no longer invited as guests of honor at cons).

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This is what I believe too about writers, singers, actors - the actual person is one thing (and it can be condemned for improper behaviour of any kind) but if his books/ movies/ songs don't have that improper behaviour, the works have to be assessed objectively for what and how they are and admired for being masterpieces. The work is not the person. The writer is not the book, the actor is not the character, and the person's personality has nothing to do with his talent.

Elenitsa said:

This is what I believe too about writers, singers, actors - the actual person is one thing (and it can be condemned for improper behaviour of any kind) but if his books/ movies/ songs don't have that improper behaviour, the works have to be assessed objectively for what and how they are and admired for being masterpieces. The work is not the person. The writer is not the book, the actor is not the character, and the person's personality has nothing to do with his talent.

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But what if you can't completely separate the person from their work? What if you can't read their books or see their performances without thinking about what they've done to people in their personal lives, what they're still doing if they haven't come clean and turned over a new leaf? And what if you worry that purchasing their work is enabling said bad behavior?

Roxxsmom said:

But what if you can't completely separate the person from their work? What if you can't read their books or see their performances without thinking about what they've done to people in their personal lives, what they're still doing if they haven't come clean and turned over a new leaf? And what if you worry that purchasing their work is enabling said bad behavior?

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My own formula (and mainly thinking as a bookseller who suggests these books to teens to feed my dog & self) is that I will do everything I can to suggest other options/promote mid-list authors to young readers instead of authors I find objectionable or whom engage in bad behavior. BUT, I have no interest in trolling kids or dampening their enthusiasm if they truly ARE into these authors and don't need a lecture about why they're wrong to feel that way. It's a tricky business, and I get in trouble both ways. Frankly in my own life and tastes I don't know what the answer is, except (also) to promote and read more mid-list authors.

Roxxsmom said:

But what if you can't completely separate the person from their work? What if you can't read their books or see their performances without thinking about what they've done to people in their personal lives, what they're still doing if they haven't come clean and turned over a new leaf? And what if you worry that purchasing their work is enabling said bad behavior?

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This, and I often have a lot of sadness over it. I don't think about it as much for artists who are dead - I don't know anything about their estate or who's getting the money now.

Maybe a separate topic, but I ran across this post on Ask A Manager this morning. Hearsay, of course, and no names named, but it's hardly unexpected. And I find myself making a list in my head of people I desperately hope are not involved.

Kjbartolotta said:

My own formula (and mainly thinking as a bookseller who suggests these books to teens to feed my dog & self) is that I will do everything I can to suggest other options/promote mid-list authors to young readers instead of authors I find objectionable or whom engage in bad behavior. BUT, I have no interest in trolling kids or dampening their enthusiasm if they truly ARE into these authors and don't need a lecture about why they're wrong to feel that way. It's a tricky business, and I get in trouble both ways. Frankly in my own life and tastes I don't know what the answer is, except (also) to promote and read more mid-list authors.

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This sums things up for me too. I don't want to spoil someone else's joy in their favorite authors. I have to bite my tongue sometimes, but everyone has to decide whom to read for themselves.

I'm also sometimes surprised by how many fellow aspiring writers don't follow their favorite writers at all--not just don't read their blogs, but never spend any time on the sites where articles written by authors are shared and discussed. I am sort of a sponge that way. I want to glean the words of wisdom and power from my favorite writers, editors, and agents about craft and about how to handle various aspects of writing, writing research, world building, the state of the industry, and representation and so on, but sometimes this means learning about the ones who aren't so cool.

Roxxsmom said:

(snip)
I'm also sometimes surprised by how many fellow aspiring writers don't follow their favorite writers at all--not just don't read their blogs, but never spend any time on the sites where articles written by authors are shared and discussed
(snip)

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Then you will probably be relieved, and comforted, by how many readers don't give a damn about their favourite authors, except to check that they're alive, if it's been a long time between books. I can't think of any author I was that interested in, as an actual person, that the little bio in the back of the book didn't satisfy the urge.

frimble3 said:

Then you will probably be relieved, and comforted, by how many readers don't give a damn about their favourite authors, except to check that they're alive, if it's been a long time between books. I can't think of any author I was that interested in, as an actual person, that the little bio in the back of the book didn't satisfy the urge.

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I've become more interested in writers as people since I've been more "serious" about trying to write and have met some, both on and offline. But I always had some curiosity about what their lives were like and where they stood on the issues of the day. Sometimes it's pretty obvious from the content of their stories, of course. There wasn't much to go on besides the bios at the back of novels and occasional news articles in the days before the internet, of course. Unless a biography was available to read. I always found it interesting to see how real life events and places inform fiction.

Marissa D said:

In the case of the recent news in the YA world, it's a tad nauseating to consider Thirteen Reasons Why in the light of some of its author's actions. I know one of his victims; she isn't writing anymore.

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This is one of the saddest things about the systematic abuse and harassment of women and other people in various industries--it drives people away and silences their voices and creativity.

Roxxsmom said:

This is one of the saddest things about the systematic abuse and harassment of women and other people in various industries--it drives people away and silences their voices and creativity.

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There seems to be an inherent problem in being the gatekeeper. Though how one goes about fixing this is beyond me. (not having gatekeepers?)

Kjbartolotta said:

There seems to be an inherent problem in being the gatekeeper. Though how one goes about fixing this is beyond me. (not having gatekeepers?)

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That's the argument in favor of self publishing, but of course the lack of gatekeepers means one has to sift through a lot of **** to find the gems hiding in the manure pile. Most aspiring writers still get lost in that, and you have to have a certain amount of money and knowledge to get a good "product" out there where people can find it.

Even self-published writers have to deal with prejudice and harassment if they go to cons and workshops and conventions to learn, promote their work, and to network. The whole dynamic with finding mentors and allies as a newbie writer who is struggling to get published, or (if self published) to gain recognition, is incredibly confusing and demoralizing.

And consumers can still be biased for and against certain kinds of people as authors.