Writing action scenes?

I'd read stories that handle similar action scenes and see how they do it. In my experience, reading is the best research for writing.

jsoc1 said:

Hey everybody,

I hope this is in the right section,

I'm still trying to get my feet wet with my first story; I'm a total novice when it comes to writing. I might try to write a story about a boxer. So I wanted to ask if there was anything I should consider when It comes to narrating action fights? I know it's kind of a diluted question, but there's so many good writers on here I thought I'd see what advice comes back.

Thanks a ton.

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Have you tried boxing?

I'd say don't get too wound up in blow by blow narration. That's process and it tends to be tedious. Remember that the pov character is your main concern. How is s/he reacting and feeling and plotting and changing? Why does each moment matter?

ETA: I'll quote what I heard Lois McMaster Bujold once describe the problem here: "The story goes on. Then it stops for two pages while two men hit one another. Then the story starts again." Don't let that be your story.

In addition to reading books to see how other authors handle certain types of scenes, you can try sitting down and watching boxing scenes in movies. Make notes on the action you see, how the matches progress. Then try and write the scene narratively, adding flow and internalization from your POV character. (For extra insight write the scene from one character's perspective and then the other.) Compare RL boxing footage to what you find in movies. What sorts of things get cut or expanded for dramatic effect?

Action scenes usually take a few drafts for me. I spend some time figuring out what I want to happen (character A throws a punch, character B throws a combo, etc), then I start to connect and polish those beats into a narrative - adding emotional and internal beats.

dawinsor said:

ETA: I'll quote what I heard Lois McMaster Bujold once describe the problem here: "The story goes on. Then it stops for two pages while two men hit one another. Then the story starts again." Don't let that be your story.

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I don't totally agree. Make the fight a story of its own, with an internal structure. Successes and reversals.

I critted a boxing scene in a crit partner's book. Here are my tips from that.

Give it clear and high stakes. It's not just about winning the fight. It's about pain. It's about losing teeth. It might be about death.

Don't telegraph the outcome. You know if your POV character is going to win, but he doesn't. Write it as if you didn't.

Some of this is going to depend on what you want your action scene to accomplish. An incidental squabble over the last waffle at breakfast probably isn't going to need pages of blow-by-blow narration - unless that waffle is really, really important to your storyline, the culmination of years of sibling rivalry. A pivotal confrontation will take more attention.

In all conflicts, choreography is very important; you can't have Hero Bill down on a broken leg one second, only to be up and running the next. You can't have him punch someone in the face if that someone's back is turned. You can't give him three black eyes unless he's an alien. It might help to sketch out your sequence of events to help you keep track of what's going on, where you've been and where you can go.

As others have mentioned, reading how other writers handle fight scenes will help, not just in describing fights effectively, but using them for specific purposes. It will also be good to know something about the action you're describing; if it's a gunfight, for instance, you want to know something about guns, or you risk making major mistakes that will throw readers out of your story (loading the wrong ammo into the wrong gun, firing too many shots on a single clip, shouting "Click! Click!" to convince your enemy you're out of bullets and having them buy it, etc.)

dawinsor said:

I'd say don't get too wound up in blow by blow narration. That's process and it tends to be tedious. Remember that the pov character is your main concern. How is s/he reacting and feeling and plotting and changing? Why does each moment matter?

ETA: I'll quote what I heard Lois McMaster Bujold once describe the problem here: "The story goes on. Then it stops for two pages while two men hit one another. Then the story starts again." Don't let that be your story.

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Exactly. The fight needs to be part of the story. It needs to be about something. It needs to change something, make it worse or make it better. There needs to be consequences.

morngnstar said:

I don't totally agree. Make the fight a story of its own, with an internal structure. Successes and reversals.

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I think that's what Bujold meant.

It's not just about winning the fight. It's about pain. It's about losing teeth. It might be about death.

Don't telegraph the outcome. You know if your POV character is going to win, but he doesn't. Write it as if you didn't.

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Very good advice.

Some recommended reading from me would be any of the books by Jim Butcher, with my favorite being The Dresden Files. To me, he is the model of how to write compelling actions in prose. Also, consider Film Critic Hulk's 3 part series on writing action. Even though he is explaining writing for movies, the crossover on what works and what doesn't is very useful. (Further, even though FCH writers in all caps, he's very well worth getting used to reading. No better advice and critic column exists, in my opinion).

For specific advice, what I have to give is this: Use the strengths of the medium. Sometimes movies get by on the strength of their visuals, but a book doesn't have that. Instead, books give us the ability to ride inside someone's mind, and see exactly what they're seeing, intending, and planning. We can slow down the action and explain what a jab is for, why a hook is a knock out blow, or how someone is setting up a feint after reading the loss of confidence in his opponent. Done right, this builds very good suspense for each blow, every action and reaction.

For boxing specifically, it might pay off to watch some videos breaking down exactly what is happening at high level play. Something similar to Mindsmash on Youtube.

BethS said:

I think that's what Bujold meant.

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Now that I see your explanation, I get that. I thought it was, "Don't let the fight be part of your story." It was, "Don't do the thing I just described."

Boxing, or fighting in the ring or at a fighting tournament is a lot more than playing rock'em sock'em robots. There's a lot more going on than trading punches.

I've trained in martial arts since 1959, and have advanced black belt ranks in four different styles. I've fought in tournaments, in no holds barred grudge matches, and in the ring (PKA, full contact). If your fight scene is in the ring, the environment may be different than what your character is used to - the floor is sort of soft and springy, and if you're not used to the ropes they can be distracting. You learn to use the environment to your advantage. Also, you know something about your opponent, and go into the match with a strategy... and not all of that is physical, there's a lot of mind games you can play against your oppent to get into his head and distract him.

If this boxing match is a large part of your story, I suggest you do a lot of research. A lot of gyms will let you come in and can give you clues about what it's all about - you can even play around in the ring to get a feel for it.

Middleweight, 165 pounds. Three PKA fights, won the first two, REALLY lost the last one. I was running my own school at the time and was doing the PKA thing so that if one of my students went that way I would know how to train them.

jsoc1 said:

Hey everybody,

I hope this is in the right section,

I'm still trying to get my feet wet with my first story; I'm a total novice when it comes to writing. I might try to write a story about a boxer. So I wanted to ask if there was anything I should consider when It comes to narrating action fights? I know it's kind of a diluted question, but there's so many good writers on here I thought I'd see what advice comes back.

Thanks a ton.

Click to expand...

For me, it would depend on the perspective. From whose POV is the story being told? A loved one in the audience? One of the fighters? Is it an omniscient point of view, distant from any particular character?

If I wasn't sure how to tackle a boxing match, I would write it from every perspective. The fighters, both. The audience. The 'top-down, god-view' as it would be termed if an RPG. Then, figure out which is most appropriate. Change narrators during a scene break, or stick with one? Go for physical description, or internal monologue?

Can't really advise more without context. That will dictate a lot, IMO.

morngnstar said:

Now that I see your explanation, I get that. I thought it was, "Don't let the fight be part of your story." It was, "Don't do the thing I just described."

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Exactly.

I've also been struggling with this same issue. I'm writing my first heavy action novel and I don't want readers to get lost in the motion. SOmetimes, when reading action scenes, I get lost so I want to script it all out. But then I don't want a completel one punch, two punch deal. AND, you don't want to be repetitive. I've never fought anything in my life before, but I know in the military we try to ingrain things to they are muscle memory. So, your character can think and feel, but somethings will just have to be natural reactions to an attack, to the point thinking would just take too much time.

Then again, I don't know, I've never been in any sort of battle.

Fighting in the ring is completely different than anything else I've ever experienced. Sparring, friendly matches or street fights are quite distinctly different. Or at least for me they are. There was also a big change of how I felt in my first match and how in the later ones, but for many people who are naturally talented and have more of a kiler's instinct than I do, this might not be the case so much.

That being said, the big thing in action scenes in such a novel that is about a boxer, and not just have a character that happens to box at some point, is the character's mind and where it goes before and after and how that carries the plot.

If you're going to write an action scene, and you've never boxed or been in a street situation before, I strongly suggest you post in the Show Your Work section here and get feedback.

The Urban Spaceman said:

For me, it would depend on the perspective. From whose POV is the story being told?.

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This, emphasized. The POV of a participant in the action will be far different than the POV of an omniscient narrator, for instance.

caw

I find I struggle if I don't have the internal conflict nailed first--like the fight feels empty and directionless. My newest favorite thing to do now is write JUST an internal monologue about the inner conflict for the scene, first. Once I have that to guide my focus, it's easier to build the fight with that end goal of conflict in mind to shape the scene. Also--I wind up with lots of tasty little bits of internal monologue to splice through the scene.

Sometimes it's fun to have contrasting tones between the outer action/inner action, too.

And read and watch and read and watch and read and watch more fights. Reading is invaluable, to see the different ways authors structure and pace fights. I was reading Joe Abercrombie recently and I thought it was interesting the way he uses POV to give battles a kind of Blair Witch Project feel.

Watching is helpful, too, because you never know when inspiration will strike. I'm still pumped up today because I watched Castlevania on Netflix last night, and Trevor Belmont's bar fight (it's on Youtube, btw) made me think long and hard about how I can't take my MCs too seriously, and sometimes the beatings are best when everyone gets hit equally all around.

There's the POV thing, but also there's the 'how much spice for the stew?' sort of question. That is, you only need write enough information to paint a picture in the reader's mind. Less detail, but the right detail is very effective.

blackcat777 said:

I find I struggle if I don't have the internal conflict nailed first--like the fight feels empty and directionless. My newest favorite thing to do now is write JUST an internal monologue about the inner conflict for the scene, first. Once I have that to guide my focus, it's easier to build the fight with that end goal of conflict in mind to shape the scene. Also--I wind up with lots of tasty little bits of internal monologue to splice through the scene.

Sometimes it's fun to have contrasting tones between the outer action/inner action, too.

And read and watch and read and watch and read and watch more fights. Reading is invaluable, to see the different ways authors structure and pace fights. I was reading Joe Abercrombie recently and I thought it was interesting the way he uses POV to give battles a kind of Blair Witch Project feel.

Watching is helpful, too, because you never know when inspiration will strike. I'm still pumped up today because I watched Castlevania on Netflix last night, and Trevor Belmont's bar fight (it's on Youtube, btw) made me think long and hard about how I can't take my MCs too seriously, and sometimes the beatings are best when everyone gets hit equally all around.

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In the ring - if that's where your boxing takes place, you're really not thinking about anything other than how to beat your opponent. You're not worrying about whether you forgot to let the dog out before you go, or whether it's time to change the oil in your truck, or worrying if my girlfriend is going out with some other guy. Focus is absolutely essential... if you lose it, your opponent will beat you to death. IMO inner conflict occurs before or after the bell. Your entire world is only about knocking the other guy out.

In a bar or street fight it's the same - you're completely focused - but the duration of this sort of conflict is much shorter.

In the ring - if that's where your boxing takes place, you're really not thinking about anything other than how to beat your opponent. You're not worrying about whether you forgot to let the dog out before you go, or whether it's time to change the oil in your truck, or worrying if my girlfriend is going out with some other guy.

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Because I'm curious about your input here, and not because I'm disagreeing - the examples you gave of conflict are all what I would consider external to a person's emotional state. What if the fight hinges on something more internal or visceral? Fear (of loss), pride/ego, anger/revenge? Basic example, but what if, for example, somebody banged a guy's girlfriend and that's why he started a fight? Would he ONLY be thinking about winning the fight? Would there be no emotion behind those swings when he's throwing punches?

I suppose what starts the fight and the circumstances for fighting play into it. I don't write about sports, only personal grudges.

I skipped over a chimera attack/fight I needed to write and decided to come back to it later because I felt so bleh about it, like it was going to be this mechanical thing. Maybe exciting on the surface but not internally. I realized what I was missing from that scene was my MC's motivation to kill it - he has to kill it before the other guy on the team kills it, otherwise it's an attack against his personal competence to control the situation (potential love interest is there and she's watching, too). It's not about what he's fighting, it's how this guy is wound up in his head and his ego is at stake. At least, that was what made it interesting to me... the fight became a metaphor for other issues in the book.