Fantasy & World-Building

Melanii

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I have MANY ideas. About 95% are high-fantasy based. I prefer other worlds for the freedom.

There's only one problem: I don't honestly think I can world-build for EACH ONE. Towns, countries, races, magic, or whatever else is needed. It's exhausting for me. For a game development project with my friends, we already have created a world. And I did make another one (with some help) for a D&D like campaign, that one day could become a game or whatever.

In fact, world-building is easier when I have someone helping me out.

But writing is often a solo job. And honestly, I think this "world-building" is keeping me back, considering I have so many fantasy ideas that happen to take place on NOT-EARTH. Combining the world could be option, though some of the concepts might not even make sense in the same world.

How would you deal with multiple fantasy stories, or fantasy ideas? Do you combine them? Make them up for each story you need to?

Thanks!
 

TSJohnson

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I'm a bit confused. Could you specify what these ideas are. Are they plots? Are they elements of the world? Magic systems?
 

mpack

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How would you deal with multiple fantasy stories, or fantasy ideas? Do you combine them? Make them up for each story you need to?

I do the worldbuilding necessary for each story. I've written some stories that could occur in a mutual world, but with little specific to link them. In other situations, I've written stories explicitly set in the same world. I limit the worldbuilding to what is needed for this story (with a little extra on the edges, in case I need to expand.) For example, I might know City X exists in the distance, but I might have little more than an inkling of an idea of what City X looks like until I need to write a story in closer proximity to it.

For each of my novel manuscripts, I have notebooks filled with ideas, charts, maps, lists, family trees, etc. Very little ends up on the page, but it does make for a wealth of information to draw on for future stories (sequels, I wish.) Perhaps in the same world, but perhaps transposed to a different world where variations on the rules might serve the story better.
 

Aggy B.

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I either do the work to create the world that works for a particular story or I come up with other ideas that don't require so much work.

There isn't really a short cut here. Although, if you can set multiple stories in the same world, that's fine and probably something you should do. I've had ideas for different stories with completely different sets of characters that a little tweaking was able to put all in the same world.

In general, I only do the amount of world-building that's necessary for the story. Might there be another land on the opposite side of the globe that has a priesthood of sex-workers? Sure. But if it doesn't come up in that particular story, I don't need to know about it. Just like if I set a story in the US in the 1970s I don't have to study the history of every other country in the world at that point unless it somehow intersects with the story. (So, yeah. It would probably be a good idea to look at Vietnam and the Cold War because that was a big part of American consciousness at the time, but I don't need to also study Zimbabwe and Japan and Uraguay and and and...)

But, if it *is* integral to the story the only solution is to do the work.
 

lilyWhite

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I assume that you're not working on all of those ideas at the same time? If you're working on one or a few stories at a time, those are the only ones you need to have thought-out as you write. You can let the others percolate when you're not working on them, let inspiration strike when it does.

And depending on your plotting process, you can build the world as you go along. You can flesh out the setting and history based on where the story goes. Even needing a reason for the plot to go in the direction you want or things to work a certain way can provide worldbuilding opportunities. (A lot of worldbuilding and how magic works in my current WIP is built on "why can't they just [x]?" questions that came up as I was coming up with ideas and writing the story.)
 

blackcat777

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I always build the world around the story I want to tell, rather than the other way around. But my fantasy clashes are on a personal level, more than an epic level, so YMMV.

I had [country B] as a placeholder for the first 30-40k of my draft, I knew I would figure out the backstory with the neighboring country when it was time. It wasn't pertinent to the main threads of personal struggles. Then I finally hit a place where some character-developing moment happened in [country B], so I had to sit and think long and hard about the economy, political climate, etc. BUT, because I knew the plot point that needed to happen, that vastly shaped the direction in which I built that country.

(And once I figured it all out, it was epic, and I have three more books to write after this one. Cool!)

But my point is that focusing on the main thread of the story and seeing that through to completion can sometimes help shape the massive amount of worldbuilding necessary. It's less intimidating for me once I have a plot and direction established, anyway.
 

Aerythia

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My completely novice advice (well it helped me) was to draw a map. I already had the basics of a plot scribbled down, and I knew my characters were going to do a lot of travelling. So I sat down, drew a random outline and started to divide it up into kingdoms, add some mountains, rivers and all that jazz. I didn't have a clue what the places were like at that time, but having a tangible map made things slot into place for me. As I wrote, and I decided what each area was like, I added names to places. At the end I redrew the map just to take into account certain things that had changed.

Anyway. That's what helped me. I certainly didn't plan reams and reams of stuff, but I made sure I had a decent outline, and made up the rest as I went :D.
 

SimaLongfei

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In fact, world-building is easier when I have someone helping me out.
Ahh, I certainly know how that feels. I'm incredibly lucky as I have a brother who likes to mutually brain storm. I help him with his games, he helps with story. Sometimes, it just helps us to have a go-to friend or buddy who we can rely on to bounce ideas back at you. Do you have any avenue, like a chat room or friends, who you can test out a brainstorming session with?
How would you deal with multiple fantasy stories, or fantasy ideas? Do you combine them? Make them up for each story you need to?
Truth is, ideas tend to be more plentiful than time to execute them. I deal with multiple fantasy ideas by basically ignoring whatever isn't on my current project. If I'm feeling generous, I write it down somewhere on a notepad to late come back to, but I always tell myself, "that idea is neat, but it's not the idea I am currently pursuing," and then I'll let the idea drift off to the ether of the subconscious until I'm ready to come back to it. But I never hold on. Holding on to too many ideas will weigh down your ability to go forward.

But, on reading your post. Maybe you have a different problem, too? You sound like to need to be more prolific in developing these worlds for your friend, to give player characters options in places to go. I find the best way to come up with more ideas is to read. History is a fantastic subject to generate ideas about people, places and things. You don't even need to just copy and paste another civilization, because learning about them can generate ideas through the questions they bring. You may read of how Justinian nearly lost his kingdom to riots around chariot racing, and think to yourself, "what if this culture was almost entirely built around chariots?" Bang! Off the plot bunny goes, creating the society of horses and chariots.

In short, the answer to creating more worlds is often merely reading about ours and seeing what jumps out at you.
 

Justobuddies

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In fact, world-building is easier when I have someone helping me out.

But writing is often a solo job.

Says who? You don't have to take a solo approach to writing.

I always talk about the world and the magic systems I'm thinking of with my family and close friends. I may have a seed idea and they help in germinate into this massive world idea. It's kind of sad because most of the cool stuff will never actually make it into the story, it remains only in my mind or my notes.

Honestly though if the world building doesn't belong in your story don't put it there. I've put down books that would have been great, the plot was there, the characters compelling, but the author just kept up with extraneous world building. The story stopped moving. Of course, there will be readers that love the six pages devoted to the nuance of flavor in each meal, but for me, if you spend time putting it in it better have a purpose ie the MC realizes his/her/its venison has that bitter flavor of poison, right before he/she/it starts to feel weak in the knees.

Everybody has a slightly different approach, some draw the map first because it helps them figure out where everything will fit in the story. I have 3 WIPs all of them started with a character, then I shopped around for a setting that fit the character. Two of them fit in the modern midwest, the third, well needed a complete world build for the character.

If you've never checked out any of Brandon Sanderson's lecture series videos it's worth the time to watch. He may give you some ideas on getting your process organized.
 

Melanii

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I'm a bit confused. Could you specify what these ideas are. Are they plots? Are they elements of the world? Magic systems?
Plots, mostly.

Says who? You don't have to take a solo approach to writing
I used to have a buddy or two to bounce ideas with, but they disappeared. :(

@Everyone - I usually plan before write, but that could be slowing me down, getting me stuck on stupid world-building specifics. I should just... write first for once. I'm glad you all gave your experiences!
 

JackieZee

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Yes, just write first! I also like to write fantasy, and I absolutely cannot do the whole mapping out the world thing first. Every time I plan to, it holds me back because I never get to it. But I enjoy it if I just sort of write the characters I envision doing what I want them to do in one location of the time, and then I have the freedom to add whatever lore, creatures, magic, and other countries that I want. I frequently go back and re-polish details like this as I re-jigger the magic system or re-name places and whatnot. Don't let the worldbuilding hold you back if you've got an awesome plot and characters. :) Let it develop naturally instead and fix holes later.
 

katfireblade

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World-building gets easier the more you write. You start to streamline processes and learn where you need to build now and what it's okay to leave until you absolutely need it.

I find it best to always do at least some, or risk winding up with Generic Fantasy 101. I find when I didn't put at least a few ideas together beforehand I unconsciously start borrowing from all those books I read as a kid, and unsurprisingly, stuff comes out sounding pretty bland. Or worse, I wind up doing tons of edits later because something radically shifted and now chunks of story need rewritten.

That said, you don't need deeply in-depth world building. I usually cover basic knowledge like races, a rough outline for my countries (everyday stuff like class structure, popular foods, common customs like greetings or polite behavior, etc.), religions if they're gonna be prominent, and occasionally just enough language to make up convincing place-and-people names. Maybe terrain and a simple map (only high points marked) if my characters are really determined to travel. Anything else I need usually fleshes out as I write, and I'm fine with that.

The secret to world building is always do just enough, sort of like a rough sketch when drawing. Then let the writing fill in the rest. :)
 

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This is the best bit for me, I take real pleasure in day dreaming about other worlds. I find drawing maps to be really helpful and having a friend to bounce around ideas about mechanics is useful.
 

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Plots, mostly.


I used to have a buddy or two to bounce ideas with, but they disappeared. :(

@Everyone - I usually plan before write, but that could be slowing me down, getting me stuck on stupid world-building specifics. I should just... write first for once. I'm glad you all gave your experiences!

I wonder if you're having similar problems to the one I'm kind of having with a current project I just started dipping my toes into? Normally, I just start writing with a basic outline of the world in my head, then fill in details as the plot demands, which then leads to more world building ideas, which leads to story ideas in a lovely fantastical spiral. Sadly this time I'm having trouble deciding what I want the basic *plot* of this project to be, and that will affect the world building and vice versa and...bleck.

In a more general sense, I feel like some people approach world building like the huge, ornate stage on which their story is set, with great props and sets and lighting and they actively want the audience to look at this cool thing they made! Others want their stories in a black box theater. Not a lot of fancy window dressing, just enough to suggest the setting and let the audience fill in the rest while focusing on the characters and story. I think both approaches are great. You can even have a little of column A, little of column B. I think it just comes down to whichever approach gets words on the page. Which is very personal and easier said than done.

And if you want to bounce ideas, feel free to PM me!
 

Melanii

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I think I like the idea of making a map to go along with a rough outline. I am an artist, so map-making doesn't bother me much. Plus there are tons of generators and stuff. :p

The hardest part of world-building is when I have to make an original race. For example, I usually create some form of "animal-like" race. People with animal ears, tails, hands/feet, but still look mostly human. Then I have to come up with a NAME. There's no already established mythological race out there like that. I once made a race of flying humanoids, but all the "part-bird" races/creatures were female-only.

Ugh.

*ahem*

@PyriteFool - maybe when I create a quick synopsis of my current idea, I'll have you look it over! :D
 

SimaLongfei

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The hardest part of world-building is when I have to make an original race. For example, I usually create some form of "animal-like" race. People with animal ears, tails, hands/feet, but still look mostly human. Then I have to come up with a NAME. There's no already established mythological race out there like that. I once made a race of flying humanoids, but all the "part-bird" races/creatures were female-only.
Don't I know the struggle of original races and creatures ... There is something to be said for borrowing extensively from the lore that has been built up through the mythologies already familiar to everyone. If I drop a werewolf into a story, I need to explain so very little about it. If I drop in a ... quorgan ... well now I need to explain what they look like, how they behave, what it means that one has shown up, etc. You might have an advantage as an artist. Visual mediums always are at such a tremendous advantage for explaining new species, since they don't have to devote paragraphs into what they look like.

How to make original races, if you want to step away from animals, I tend to like to figure out what the species needs to survive. Let ecology begin to define the creatures. Let's say ... they grew up along side dragons, at a coastal region, that's tropical. Now I start to work it out ... Dragons mean fire and predation, so this fantasy race needs to protect itself. Coastal means there is an ocean, which means easy safety from fire and possibly from dragons (unless dragons can swim). So, what features do they need to transition between land and sea? There, we're already on a great start.

Names are always very annoying to make. I usually try to go looking up a similar word (for above species, I'd try to find words related to coast, ocean, sea, etc), and then go to the etymologies. Try to find the oldest forms of that word. From there, I try to remix them into new words. For this one, I came up with Swais, Okean, and Costear. and I could probably remix them further with Swaitear, Coaswais, etc.
 

lilyWhite

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The hardest part of world-building is when I have to make an original race. For example, I usually create some form of "animal-like" race. People with animal ears, tails, hands/feet, but still look mostly human. Then I have to come up with a NAME. There's no already established mythological race out there like that. I once made a race of flying humanoids, but all the "part-bird" races/creatures were female-only.

My current WIP has a bunch of original races. For their names, I've looked into mythologies, etymologies, and scientific classifications to find good race names. For example: the deer-centaur race I've named "duneyrr", from Norse mythology; the jellyfish-headed people are called "cnidarians", based on the phylum Cnidaria. I even have bird-people, who are called "avalerions".

(The story does have a reason why the names of non-human races are based on human mythology and language, but plenty of fantasy stories do this sort of thing.)
 

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A universe shared among many novels does not necessarily have to be internally consistent -- you are allowed to change the rules over time as your understanding evolves or your needs change, so long as the works are distinct stories. In short: "A wizard did it".
 

Kjbartolotta

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A universe shared among many novels does not necessarily have to be internally consistent -- you are allowed to change the rules over time as your understanding evolves or your needs change, so long as the works are distinct stories. In short: "A wizard did it".

LeGuin's Hainish Cycle is one of the better example of a shared setting where the author seems quite uninterested in consistency or even bothering to link everything up. You have some shared details and a rough history, but she could always care less about how everything fits and is quite open about it. Earthsea is a little more consistent, but again, she's never really cared. Doesn't stop her from being one of the absolute OG legends of worldbuilding, possibly right behind Tolkien (or ahead him).
 

Richard White

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As someone who's written a book on world-building, I agree with the concept, "you only have to design as much as you need".

For one story, all I needed to design was a city - I worked up the general shape of the city/its environments (what was just outside it, weather patterns, etc.) and then very specific neighborhoods I'd be visiting on a regular basis (so I could remember which side of the street the darn bookstore was on so I didn't have to read back six chapters to remember). Add in some general ideas of neighboring towns people might be visiting from/going to, a couple of countries that this port city might be trading with, who the formal and informal leaders in the town might be (since it was germaine to the story) and voila, world built.

Now that I'm starting to write book two, and it's not set in that city, I need to expand the Kingdom that city is a part of so my characters can go from points a to b to c (over the course of this book) and I might as well develop the entire kingdom (and drop a few bread crumbs in to this book for future books).

Since I have a degree in History and have studied maps since I was a little kid, designing worlds is easier for me, but its not like you have to have degrees in sociology, finance, history, geography, political science, hydrology, metallurgy, zoology, psychology, and meterology to build a world*, but you need to be able to find just enough information to give your story some veracity. Don't make your readers put down your book because they get the giggles because you got something absurdly wrong.

*but it helps *grin*
 
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Kjbartolotta

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As someone who's written a book on world-building, I agree with the concept, "you only have to design as much as you need".

Ditto, but for my own work I need to know the elevation of every mountain and what the local cuisine is of every obscure tribe I never have any interest in writing about would. But then, I don't accomplish very much. Also, a book on world-building, huh? Available on Amazon? And who's that handsome salt-and-pepper gent on the cover?
 

Richard White

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Also, a book on world-building, huh? Available on Amazon? And who's that handsome salt-and-pepper gent on the cover?

The concept for the Terra Incognito cover was an older explorer/pathfinder teaching two new people his tricks of the trade. My artist came up with the concept and we tweaked it around a few times before he went to color. I had no idea what the characters would finally look like until he submitted it, and honestly, I didn't notice any resemblance until someone pointed it out to me at a convention.

Honestly, I love how if you look closely, the map behind them becomes the terrain they're standing on seamlessly. Took me a couple of times before I realized it myself. I miss working with that guy.

I should be in that good of shape. *sigh*
 

Kjbartolotta

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I love worldbuilding books, but sometimes wonder if someone would offer a masterclass 'so you're a skilled worldbuilder but can't concentrate long enough to achieve anything or know what you're planning on doing with it' book. Worldbuilding has always been one of my greatest pleasures, at this moment in my life I wish I was slightly less enthused by it.
 

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For me, writing and world building are sort of an induced fit to one another. For instance, say I have an idea about a story featuring a character who has to choose between betraying her family and betraying her country. I want it to be struggle, where the right and wrong of it isn't clear cut. So what kind of family structure and what kind of society will work for the kind of characters and conflicts I have in mind? That's how I start thinking of how a society works and its institutions and the rest of the world it's a part of. I also have a sort of aesthetic feel I'm interested in at the back of my mind with regards to flora and fauna, architecture, clothing, food and so on. I generally try not to just copy an existing real-world culture, though that can be hard, and I do study stuff from different cultures to get a sense of what kinds of innovations or implements are feasible in a given environment.

Sometimes I just get an idea that's based on a sort of scene in my head too. Maybe I see a windswept hillside with a hut inhabited by an old woman who tends a tree that attracts a bizarre collection of birds. Who is she? Why does she do this? Where do the birds come from and what kind of relationship do they have to the old woman? Is she going to be the central character, or is she part of the supporting cast? The world building comes from those questions.

The biggest problem I have is coming up with the a conflict without worrying my readers won't care about it, then with concocting a plausible crisis based on that conflict, and finally (the hardest part) a resolution that doesn't feel too pat or trite or on the nose.
 
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