Did you ever realize you wrote everything out of order?

I have used index cards and big Post-It notes, but now I used a whiteboard. It's a technique that's very useful for non-fiction too.

I know people who use a software called Scrivener for a similar purpose. I tried it once and can't really get into it; too complicated and fussy, too much to keep track of. My brainstorming usually takes the form of scribbles in a notebook, jotting things like "try riot before turkey" or "move second scene w/ Brenner to after fleeing mansion" because it's my story and I know what that stuff means instantly. I tend to just shuffle things around in the Word document itself when I'm testing scene order, and save my previous drafts along the way in case I want to revert back to an old order.

I don't use anything that I can't do with a computer, because I move around a lot and don't like carrying stuff.

That said, you can do this same thing with a spreadsheet or a text document; and I do. I shuffle things around a bit occasionally - mainly testing my structure, but occasionally I do make big changes after seeing how they work on a synopsis / scene-by-scene document. I find it's just much easier doing it on a computer than writing on pieces of cardboard. Especially since you can easily tweak a scene and see if it fits that spot better after a tweak or combine scenes right there. Some people like the physical aid though, makes it more concrete.

Last novel I finished I used "cards" after my first revision round. Put all the scenes into one document and started shifting them around, and it resulted in a few big changes (for the better I hope).

I write in order. Though, I'm very tempted to try out other techniques. I usually plan it all out, so there's no reason I cannot try it.

I'd recommend using a spreadsheet. Instead of an index card, I use a line in the spreadsheet. I usually space my lines with a couple of blank ones inbetween. That way, it's simple to add stuff and/or move things about by dragging and dropping. You can use one wide column for the "note" and other narrower ones to indicate location, characters involved, time/date etc. I use a simple colour code, which, at a glance, indicates the detailed shape of the story.

I use a series of bulleted lists created in ms word

You can use a whiteboard system, digitally, with Windows Vista or later versions of the operating system. Start, type sticky. Sticky Notes will load. These are post-it notes. Hit the plus to create new post-its (as many as you want). You can resize them, change their colors, and so forth. You can turn your desktop into a big outline. Hit Print Screen to save it to an image. Save image to a thumb drive or dump it to a virtual hard drive (like Box.com or Google Docs). Portable, and backed up!

Text-boxes in MS-Excel are also useful. These work essentially like post-it notes, can be freely moved around anywhere on the spreadsheet, and are not associated directly with cells. I use them a lot for business-related work, but could see them as useful tools for writing as well.

caw

caw

Sure. Very common I reckon, in multi pov novels. Most of my structural changes have to do with reordering pov scenes.

I would lose index cards; I just move scenes aroudn in scrivener or ywriter.

I have post it notes all over a corkboard and index cards that I place on the floor when I'm desperate. Not for nothing, for as basic a system they are, they both work very well. And they're cheap. Just go with it,LOL!

Enlightened said:

You can use a whiteboard system, digitally, with Windows Vista or later versions of the operating system. Start, type sticky. Sticky Notes will load. These are post-it notes. Hit the plus to create new post-its (as many as you want). You can resize them, change their colors, and so forth. You can turn your desktop into a big outline. Hit Print Screen to save it to an image. Save image to a thumb drive or dump it to a virtual hard drive (like Box.com or Google Docs). Portable, and backed up!

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You can use Post-It notes and take a photograph, upload it to Docs etc etc. Fewer steps, just as portable, and you've still got the Post-It notes should the connection go down. (ETA: and the power. Esp. the power.)

Helix: Absolutely, but those analog technologies cost money (and they can add up over the years). Mine was just a free tool that already comes with modern-era Windows. Not sure how going from analog to digital is fewer steps though. Upload them to the cloud; you can access them on a smart phone (if power goes out).

Enlightened said:

Helix: Absolutely, but those analog technologies cost money (and they can add up over the years). Mine was just a free tool that already comes with modern-era Windows. Not sure how going from analog to digital is fewer steps though. Upload them to the cloud; you can access them on a smart phone (if power goes out).

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0.99c for a pack of Post-It notes. (That's Australian cents, so even less in American ones.)

'Modern-era Windows' is a version that I'm not familiar with. Did it come out after 10?

I use blank business cards which I then slip into clear plastic business card holders which fit into a ring binder. So I can see about twenty to the page, I think. It is easily portable, very clear, and very easy to rearrange if I want to.

I think the card holders have three columns of six, and I usually leave the third column empty which gives me room to add scenes without having to rearrange the whole lot.

I use Scrivener's index cards. On the subject of shuffling scenes, what I love about Scrivener is the ease with which those cards and the scenes they represent can be moved around a ms. Ii also made it a lot easier for me to insert a new scene into an earlier part of the project, where messing with MS Word would have given me a headache.

I think the pre-set novel template is too complicated for new users. I prefer the blank template, which has draft, research and trash folders and is a lot easier to get one's head around. Scrivener comes with a decent free trial period if you want to check it out. The index cards also serve as an outline view, too.

Scrivener's index cards have this advantage over all the other methods mentioned above: they are directly linked to the actual text, so once you rearrange the index cards in a way you like, you don't have to do anything else to make your manuscript match, it will already be in the new order. So it's a tremendous time-and-labor saver.

Scrivener's index cards have this disadvantage: you have to be using Scrivener as your writing tool to get the benefit. It's possible to create cards without any text behind them -- they're useful in that way to outliners -- but if you already have a manuscript outside of Scrivener you either have to (1) bring it into Scrivener & set up the cards scene by scene, which is extra work up front but then gives you the above-mentioned advantage, i.e. you can shuffle the cards and have a reorganized manuscript after shuffling the cards, or (2) use Scrivener's index card function on its own, in which case you have exactly the same situation as with physical index cards, Excel text boxes, Post-it notes, etc.

I personally think that Scrivener is a fantastic writing tool, & it's pretty inexpensive, with a long free-trial period. But I know it's not for everybody.

blackcat777 said:

Do you use index cards?

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Not since God invented Cut and Paste. Or was it Satan? Hard to tell some days.

Jeff

Old Hack said:

I use blank business cards which I then slip into clear plastic business card holders which fit into a ring binder. So I can see about twenty to the page, I think. It is easily portable, very clear, and very easy to rearrange if I want to.

I think the card holders have three columns of six, and I usually leave the third column empty which gives me room to add scenes without having to rearrange the whole lot.

Click to expand...

What a great idea!

This thread could not have come at a better time. I am very much wondering if I've written certain chapters out of order....not that there is a wrong order but I could shuffle things around and it would still flow. With 4 MC and two separate yet intertwined stories I'm really struggling with this. I can't do the one note or the scrivener I agree all that tech stuff is too much for me(although I can def see perks to it) but I love the idea of putting the chapters onto cards and then shuffling them them that way.

Thanks for that idea this is going to save me a tonne of work!

Old Hack said:

I use blank business cards which I then slip into clear plastic business card holders which fit into a ring binder. So I can see about twenty to the page, I think. It is easily portable, very clear, and very easy to rearrange if I want to.

I think the card holders have three columns of six, and I usually leave the third column empty which gives me room to add scenes without having to rearrange the whole lot.

Click to expand...

That's a really cool idea!

Jan74 said:

This thread could not have come at a better time. I am very much wondering if I've written certain chapters out of order....not that there is a wrong order but I could shuffle things around and it would still flow. With 4 MC and two separate yet intertwined stories I'm really struggling with this. I can't do the one note or the scrivener I agree all that tech stuff is too much for me(although I can def see perks to it) but I love the idea of putting the chapters onto cards and then shuffling them them that way.

Thanks for that idea this is going to save me a tonne of work!

Click to expand...

In the old days, this is exactly how we used to story conference for TV. Ah, the old days....