milking a horse

TellMeAStory said:

It's 1938, and my MC, a private duty nurse, has been hired to care for baby triplets far from the city. The parents are so disengaged, they haven't provided milk for the babies' formula, so MC determines to milk the family's mother horse. MC does know how to milk a cow--though she's not expert at it.

Will she get enough milk from this horse to keep the three babies alive?

How old should the colt be? I want maximum milk with minimal harm to the colt.

What is the best way to secure the mother horse so MC won't get kicked?

What else do I need to know?

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I think you need to do more research. Why in the world is she milking a horse instead of hiring a wet nurse or, you know, buying formula and/or tinned milk?

Or have the family own a goat that could be milked. I think that might be more realistic than a horse.

Wet nurse seems a better choice. I'm not sure how well horse's milk would go with a baby. Only society that I'm aware that used mare's milk to any great extent was the Mongols and it wasn't for babies.

TellMeAStory said:

It's 1938, and my MC, a private duty nurse, has been hired to care for baby triplets far from the city. The parents are so disengaged, they haven't provided milk for the babies' formula, so MC determines to milk the family's mother horse. MC does know how to milk a cow--though she's not expert at it. Same process with a cow or a horse, but udder is a lot more developed in a cow, as well as the teats of milking cows.

Will she get enough milk from this horse to keep the three babies alive? I'm inclined to doubt it, but it's a guess. Milking cows are bred to produce large amounts of milk. The mare will be producing enough for its foal and that's it. How much the mare's production would increase with additional demand is something I don't know and I know of no research on the subject. Mare's can produce enough milk to support twins, but it's unusual and can be a problem.

How old should the colt be? I want maximum milk with minimal harm to the colt. Foals wean between six months and a year. If the mare is a working mare, weaning is probably going to be sooner rather then later.

What is the best way to secure the mother horse so MC won't get kicked? Well, you can try hobbling the horse, but if the mare isn't trained to hobbles, you'll have a rodeo. You'll probably have a rodeo anyway unless the mare is trained for milking. My guess is you're going to get kicked.

What else do I need to know? Milking a mare is sometimes a rodeo event. There's not a lot of information that I'm aware of for milking mares. You might look at cheese production.

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Jim

TellMeAStory said:

It really does need to be milking a horse.

This is a stop-gap measure until the parents return from their outing, and gas-powered transportation again becomes available--and therefore access to evaporated milk from which MC will mix up formula.

MC is not on a farm, but an "estate" that raises only horses and dogs, and MC wouldn't dream of milking a dog.

No wet nurses, no goats, and for the next few hours, no transportation to stores.

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Wait, it's a few hours? No one in their right mind is milking a horse over a few hours wait. Give them some water ffs.

I know horses can be milked because the Mongols make an alcoholic drink Kumis from fermented mare's milk. However, the nutritional value to infants/babies/children may need researched, it could make them very ill, especially unpasteurized.

A quick google search reveals a number of YouTube videos on how to actually milk a horse.

Some notes.

Babies which are still dependent on milk get really ill when you change their milk abruptly.

If this baby is young enough to require nothing but milk and hasn't already established a happy routine of drinking horse-milk, this baby is going to get seriously ill, seriously quickly. It will get an upset stomach, probably resulting in D&V, and will be dehydrated and screaming before you know it.

Horses don't like being milked if they're not already used to it. Unless your MC is an incredible horsewoman as well as a nanny she's going to struggle to do this.

Colts are male baby horses, fillies are female baby horses, foals are all baby horses.

Most babies can last a few hours between feeds, especially if they're formula-fed.

Babies can catch diseases from raw milk, which is what this would be: it's really not a good idea. Better to wait for the parents to return even if they are late.

Strictly speaking, you could feed many babies from the milk from one mare if the mare were willing to be milked, which few would be if they haven't been milked before. Milk is made according to demand. So the more milk you take, the more she makes.

If the mare has only just had a foal in the last couple of days she'll only be making colostrum, not milk, which is only made in relatively small amounts and there won't necessarily be enough for more than her own foal--and it's likely that the colostrum will be even more troublesome for the babies' tummies.

An experienced nanny would probably not go near horse-milk if there was no baby milk available, because there are so many problems associated with it. Sugar water might be a better solution to hungry babies; it would be sterile and would feed their hunger even if it would also carry the risk of upset tummies later on down the road.

OK, this is just a memory from my childhood, but I recall a book that mentioned a pioneer family using horse's milk to feed a baby during their journey west. It was an emergency (I think the baby had just been born and mother was ill/not producing milk), but it would technically work, I think.

According to Wikipedia:

A 1982 source reported 230,000 horses were kept in the Soviet Union specifically for producing milk to make into kumis.[SUP][8][/SUP] Rinchingiin Indra, writing about Mongolian dairying, says "it takes considerable skill to milk a mare" and describes the technique: the milker kneels on one knee, with a pail propped on the other, steadied by a string tied to an arm. One arm is wrapped behind the mare's rear leg and the other in front. A foal starts the milk flow and is pulled away by another person, but left touching the mare's side during the entire process.[SUP][9][/SUP]

How about riding one of the horses to a neighboring estate to get milk from a neighbor? Or asking one of the other employees on the estate to do the same?

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Milking a mare is not something you do on the fly; she's not going to like it.

The older a foal is, the less milk mom will have. They don't produce a whole lot at the best of times (they only have two teats, and sometimes, only one functions).

A few hours is not reason enough to do this; it's more than likely that the baby will have digestive issues since it's a new food.

Someone would have cows milk or a neighbor would be nursing and can use a pump or breast feed the baby if necessary. Babies used to be given solid food (soft cooked eggs for instance, or pap, made with water, flour and a little sugar) at six weeks or so, earlier if the mom couldn't produce adequate milk because her own diet was poor.

Horses can provide sufficient nutrition for toddlers, at least. My wife was baffled by Step Daughter not eating anything but breakfast for several days in a row, until she caught step daughter nursing off the mare in the pasture she played in. Pediatrician confirmed she was healthy as, er, a horse.

Probably NOT so good for tiny babies who depend on milk exclusively.

What have they been eating up to now?

It would take a while to catch the mare, clean the teats, milk enough for three babies, bring it back to the house. Who is watching three babies while all that happens?

If the nurse decides water alone won't do until the parents get back (and there's no milk for tea or coffee in the house) why not make pap or sugar water from readily available ingredients in the kitchen? Babies for millennia have failed to thrive on pap.

ETA: or what AW Admin said.

TellMeAStory said:

It really does need to be milking a horse.

This is a stop-gap measure until the parents return from their outing, and gas-powered transportation again becomes available--and therefore access to evaporated milk from which MC will mix up formula.

MC is not on a farm, but an "estate" that raises only horses and dogs, and MC wouldn't dream of milking a dog.

No wet nurses, no goats, and for the next few hours, no transportation to stores.

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I guess I'm going to have to show my ignorance here: you say it's an estate that raises only horses and dogs. Why can't your MC use a horse for transportation to a neighbor's farm/estate if obtaining milk is so critical.


ETA: Or, yanno, what Taraesque said.

TellMeAStory said:

I want maximum milk with minimal harm to the colt.

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Does colt still mean "Young male horse," cause, cause I think it does. So, in that case your colt will produce a white, milky substance, but I don't think there's a lot of protein in that.

Donkey milk was sometimes used in the past as infant nutrition, and also for invalids. It's actually closer in composition to human milk than cow's or goat's milk.

Foal - baby horse
Filly - girl
Colt - boy

Semen - lots of protein.

i think in terms of age, you need to know not when a foal normally weans, but when the foal would be capable of eating other food (e.g. soft grain). This may be earlier than 6 months.

So, the mama makes a lot of milk for baby horse, but baby horse can be tempted away with 'Purina Foal Chow' with no bad repercussions.

Then you take the milk that mama had planned for the baby. (You probably still want the foal to have some of that milk so it isn't too stressed out.)

Google says a mare makes 3 gallons milk per day. That's plenty (baby people eat ~ 25 - 60 ounces per day depending on age.)

TellMeAStory said:

Well, I thank all you helpful people for trying to re-write the story for me, but it really is as I presented it.

MC knows the babies are frail, does not know how to ride a horse, is in no position to ask other employees to run errands for her, believes that milk--of any kind--is necessary, knows there are no nearby neighbors, and has already considered a flour-syrup-water alternative, but thinks it inadvisable.

She has determined to milk the lactating horse in the belief that its milk will save those babies. It may be an unwise decision, but like any MC, she does have her limitations.

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We're not trying to rewrite it, but telling you that, as readers, if we come across a story in which someone tasked with looking after some babies for a few hours decides to go milk a horse, we may decide the character is too addled to have gotten successfully dressed, nevermind propelled herself to a job.

She's convinced herself that some frail babies are better off on unpasturized horse milk they've never had than water, I think she's too dumb to live (which may be the character), or it's an insertion for effect, which would put me off the whole book.

We're not saying it doesn't make sense for amusement's sake, in other words; we're saying it doesn't make sense because we're readers. If it's not supposed to make sense -- if she's a moron who sickens or kills the kids out of stupidity, then fine, but say so, you know?

Patty said:

Google says a mare makes 3 gallons milk per day. That's plenty (baby people eat ~ 25 - 60 ounces per day depending on age.)

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A Percheron or other heavy horse will, sure, for about the first three months. Then it starts to taper as the foal starts to be able to eat and digest vegetation/grass/hay.

Moreover, not only does the amount change, so does the composition of the milk; more water then less, until she dries off.

TellMeAStory said:

Well, I thank all you helpful people for trying to re-write the story for me, but it really is as I presented it.

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I understand that, but has someone who has fed babies, kept horses and actually milked a horse (for bottle feeding other horses' foals) I'd stop reading your book because it's so very very implausible.

Human babies will die in days without food. They will survive fine for a few days on water with sugar and salt and maybe some finely ground flour to thicken it. Not a diet for the long term, but just fine short term.

And a competent rider is not going to mind, for instance, a twenty five mile ride to fetch milk.

AW Admin said:

A few hours is not reason enough to do this; it's more than likely that the baby will have digestive issues since it's a new food.

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Indeed. Babies who are breastfed can and do have upsets if their mother eats something new; being given an entirely new sort of milk without any introductory period is going to cause real problems, if these babies are under about six months old. Perhaps if they're older.

TellMeAStory said:

Well, I thank all you helpful people for trying to re-write the story for me, but it really is as I presented it.

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I'm sorry: I'm not trying to rewrite your story; I'm just presenting you with the facts that I know, in hope that they'll help you construct a new and more realistic storyline.

MC knows the babies are frail, does not know how to ride a horse, is in no position to ask other employees to run errands for her, believes that milk--of any kind--is necessary, knows there are no nearby neighbors, and has already considered a flour-syrup-water alternative, but thinks it inadvisable.

She has determined to milk the lactating horse in the belief that its milk will save those babies. It may be an unwise decision, but like any MC, she does have her limitations.

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If she knows the babies are frail surely she'd not give them food which is almost guaranteed to upset them? IF she's got any experience as a nurse (and having been given the job of nursing three frail babies, I'd assume she has at least some experience) she'd surely know that this is a really, really bad idea?

I'm sorry. I don't want to critique your story for you; I know this isn't the place. But I can't imagine anyone who has ever cared for a baby would think that this is even something to consider, let alone a good idea. There are so many alternatives which would offer a better outcome for the babies--sugar water, pap, mashed banana, mashed almost anything--than the milk of a horse.

Milking mares is hard and the mare is unlikely to cooperate in either being caught or milked. Though I suppose it could be a very tame mare who doesn't really care, but most mares with foals DO care when strangers get between them.

Is this a trained nurse? Or just some random woman?

Because if she's a trained private duty nurse professionally hired to look after these children I'd DNF a book that made her leave three babies alone for the time it took her to catch a strange mare and milk it with little prior experience when there's water (and sugar) right there in the kitchen, and she expects the parents home as soon as they're done with their outing. If the babies are so frail that waiting a few hours, or even a day, to feed them tinned milk/formula would endanger their lives, should she not be wondering how to get them to hospital, or at least get a doctor to the house, ASAP?

ETA: Also if they're rich in the 30s, they probably have a phone. Call the nearest milk man/grocer and ask for a delivery?

My wife the postpartum/pediatric nurse asks why would a trained private duty nurse think unhygenic mares milk is better than potable water and processed sugar for frail babies? Or just waiting for the parents to get home? (Nurses know babies can wait for hours to be fed. Babies have survived for days without being fed when buried in hospitals after earthquakes.) Mare's milk has so much less fat than human milk, she might as well be feeding them water anyway.

If it's some random teen that knows horses but not babies so much, I'd be far more likely to buy the premise.

In addition, just btw, many infants on an exclusive diet won't readily take something else. Heck, babies on diets of a few things can be picky about new foods, but if they're on a regular diet just giving them horse milk isn't likely to solve a problem because (aside from all the other things mentioned), they probably won't eat it.

Yes, someone hungry enough will eat almost anything, but going a few hours without food isn't close to hungry enough to overcome that, especially for a baby with something that smells or tastes markedly different, which I'm going to guess horse milk does if they've been getting evaporated milk.