Said

Keithy · Nov 21, 2017

I'm wondering which is the right way to attribute dialogue.

Is it "dialogue," xxx said.

or "dialogue," said xxx.

(xxx being the speaker.)

I normally use the latter, but I seem to be reading a lot of the former. Is this a grammar thing, or a style thing?

blacbird · Nov 21, 2017

It's a style thing.

caw

amergina · Nov 21, 2017

blacbird said:
It's a style thing.

caw

"Yup," they said.

"You can do it either way," said they. "But do be consistent, unlike this example."

AwP_writer · Nov 21, 2017

Really? I actually try to be inconsistent to avoid repetitiveness. Is that considered wrong?

cornflake · Nov 21, 2017

AwP_writer said:
Really? I actually try to be inconsistent to avoid repetitiveness. Is that considered wrong?

"Yes," they said. "It's distracting, like using said booksims. Sometimes changing is ok, depending on the structure of the sentence, but in general, be consistent."

Harlequin · Nov 22, 2017

Philip k Dick liked to use,

She said, "Profound line goes here."

I don't use an awful lots of tags, but I do use 'she said' and 'said she'. Before or after lines, and in the middle too. Whatever sounds better for the rhythm of the line. Didn't realise that was wrong!

blacbird · Nov 22, 2017

Harlequin said:
I don't use an awful lots of tags, but I do use 'she said' and 'said she'. Before or after lines, and in the middle too. Whatever sounds better for the rhythm of the line. Didn't realise that was wrong!

It ain't. You'll have no trouble finding good writers who mix things up in exactly this fashion. Repetitive rigid consistency in dialog attribution structure gets deadly for a reader.

caw

Chase · Nov 22, 2017

AwP_writer said:
Really? I actually try to be inconsistent to avoid repetitiveness. Is that considered wrong?

No. An occasional change of order is common.

BethS · Nov 23, 2017

I tend toward Mary said rather than said Mary, largely because it sounds better to my ear to put the noun before the verb in most cases. An exception would be if I need to append a modifying statement to the speaker, in which case it would be something like ...said Mary, who until this moment could not recall ever having reversed her nouns and verbs.

Calder · Nov 25, 2017

"Repetitive rigid consistency in dialog attribution structure gets deadly for a reader."

Blacbird has it in a nutshell. Personally, I find nothing more offputting than a passage of dialogue in which the author feels the need to attribute every statement, no matter how important, or significant the passage and no matter whether they use different attribution structures. Peppering dialogue with "said", "asked", "replied" etc. etc. slows down the pace. Very often, the content and context and the "voice", or the terms used by characters removes the need for attribution. As I've said, it's a personal thing with me - I just don't like dialogue tags, or attributions. So much so that I go out of my way to avoid using them and when one does slip through, it's among the first things to disappear when I edit.

HSDarke · Nov 26, 2017

Hello. I am just a beginner, but I'll chime in. Using "xxx said" or "said xxx" is obviously a style thing. I would keep in mind a few things. Do not use it too much. If you have many alternating lines of dialogue between two speakers, try to get someone to say a name for the reader's clarification. But maybe what's most important is whether or not you put the dialogue tag in front or after the quote. Obvious no no's would be:
Jack said, "If the tarp is too big I can find--"
Jennifer interrupted, "No, no. It's fine."

*maybe this is better*
Jack said, "If the tarp is too big I can find--"
"No, no. It's fine," Jennifer interrupted.

In dialogue with more than two speakers, you have to juggle clarity with flow. I've seen too many writers put tags at the end of the quote, and that's not always good, because only at the end do you understand who was speaking.

Anyway, I'm just a newb with a few ideas. I hope that was good advice.

Bufty · Nov 27, 2017

I'm afraid that relative to your specific question - it's not better.

Em-dashes indicate interruption, so there is no need to duplicate that by having a dialogue tag saying that someone interrupted the speaker.

Also, if there are only two speakers, dialogue tags are only needed occasionally, just to keep the reader on track if there's a long exchange.

The reader, as you say, should know who is speaking sooner rather than later.

Reading how established authors handle dialogue is a good guide as to what works best.

HSDarke said:
Hello. I am just a beginner, but I'll chime in. Using "xxx said" or "said xxx" is obviously a style thing. I would keep in mind a few things. Do not use it too much. If you have many alternating lines of dialogue between two speakers, try to get someone to say a name for the reader's clarification. But maybe what's most important is whether or not you put the dialogue tag in front or after the quote. Obvious no no's would be:
Jack said, "If the tarp is too big I can find--"
Jennifer interrupted, "No, no. It's fine."

*maybe this is better*
Jack said, "If the tarp is too big I can find--"
"No, no. It's fine," Jennifer interrupted.

In dialogue with more than two speakers, you have to juggle clarity with flow. I've seen too many writers put tags at the end of the quote, and that's not always good, because only at the end do you understand who was speaking.

Anyway, I'm just a newb with a few ideas. I hope that was good advice.

veinglory · Nov 27, 2017

Repetition that is not redundant (e.g. tags where no tag is needed) can also become invisible to the reader rather than boring. It depends, I suppose, on where tags are an important part of your style or not. I use either nothing, "said X" or "asked X" and no one has every remarked on the tedium of it.

HSDarke · Nov 27, 2017

Hello, Bufty. This is our second exchange. I certainly did not need to write "Jennifer interrupted." You are most def. correct about that. I was attempting to juxtapose the writer's words to illustrate a no-no, but as you so aptly pointed out, "Jennifer interrupted." was redundant. Regarding em dashes, I feel they are being over used in general, but I digress. That is another topic for another thread.

Harlequin · Nov 27, 2017

These things come and go, like any trend I imagine. Dip into a Bronte book and you'll find the em-dashes breeding rampantly all over the page.

HSDarke · Nov 27, 2017

They're very flexible. But I often wonder about their similarities to parenthetical notations or even interrupts. I'm allowed to ignore what's in parentheses. If the writer felt that bit of info was necessary, they'd re-write their sentence, but apparently no one likes parentheses in fiction. Also, when using commas as interrupters, the same can be said, but interrupters are higher on the hierarchy list. This means, to me, that I should probably read what's in between the interrupters, but ignore the parentheses. So where do em dashes sit in relation to those examples? I'm not sure. For what it's worth, I don't mind parentheses in fiction.

Harlequin · Nov 27, 2017

I would say you're probably over thinking it. The majority of readers don't care as long as the writing flows well.

blacbird · Nov 27, 2017

HSDarke said:
I'm allowed to ignore what's in parentheses. If the writer felt that bit of info was necessary, they'd re-write their sentence, but apparently no one likes parentheses in fiction..

Nonsense. You'll have no trouble finding very good and successful writers who use parentheses when appropriate. Like anything, the key is not to overuse them.

caw

Ellis Clover · Nov 28, 2017

cornflake said:
"Yes," they said. "It's distracting, like using said booksims. Sometimes changing is ok, depending on the structure of the sentence, but in general, be consistent."

AwP_writer said:
Really? I actually try to be inconsistent to avoid repetitiveness. Is that considered wrong?

Based on the number of books I read (nearly all of them) that mix it up, no, I don't think it's considered wrong. It's completely a matter of personal style and taste.

Twick · Nov 30, 2017

Harlequin said:
These things come and go, like any trend I imagine. Dip into a Bronte book and you'll find the em-dashes breeding rampantly all over the page.

And doing so darkly and self-destructively, like the characters?

Harlequin · Nov 30, 2017

*flips casually through Wuthering Heights*

'You teach me now how cruel you've been—cruel and false. Why did you despise me? Why did you betray your own heart, Cathy? I have not one word of comfort. You deserve this. You have killed yourself. Yes, you may kiss me, and cry; and wring out my kisses and tears: they'll blight you—they'll damn you. You loved me—then what right had you to leave me? What right—answer me—for the poor fancy you felt for Linton? Because misery and degradation, and death, and nothing that God or Satan could inflict would have parted us, you, of your own will, did it. I have not broken your heart—you have broken it; and in breaking it, you have broken mine. So much the worse for me that I am strong. Do I want to live? What kind of living will it be when you—oh, God! would you like to live with your soul in the grave?'

...yep, darkly and self-destructively!

Roxxsmom · Nov 30, 2017

Keithy said:
I'm wondering which is the right way to attribute dialogue.

Is it "dialogue," xxx said.

or "dialogue," said xxx.

(xxx being the speaker.)

I normally use the latter, but I seem to be reading a lot of the former. Is this a grammar thing, or a style thing?

Either is grammatically correct when a proper name is being used. A preference for one way or another is probably influenced by whichever order the author thinks flows better. This may be a consequence of the author's own experience and habits. It's not something I notice, generally.

I would notice if someone used "dialog," said she/he/I, though. I haven't seen it used that way with pronouns, except in older work, so it would feel stilted or old fashioned.

Keithy · Jan 1, 2018

I am seeing much more of:

"blah blah blah," xxx said

and hardly any:

"blah blah blah," said xxx.

Oh well, it's one of the million things I need to resolve.

ForeverYoursCaffiene · Jan 2, 2018

I've used "Hello," he said so much that I find "Hello," said Bob very awkward. I would say stay consistent with whatever you choose.

Bufty · Jan 3, 2018

ForeverYoursCaffiene said:
I've used "Hello," he said so much that I find "Hello," said Bob very awkward. I would say stay consistent with whatever you choose.

The consistent comparison here to 'he said' would surely be 'said he'. :Hug2:

Said

Keithy

Just keep swimming

blacbird

amergina

Pittsburgh Strong

AwP_writer

cornflake

practical experience, FTW

Harlequin

Eat books, not brains!

blacbird

Chase

It Takes All of Us to End Racism

BethS

Calder

HSDarke

Bufty

Where have the last ten years gone?

veinglory

volitare nequeo

HSDarke

Harlequin

Eat books, not brains!

HSDarke

Harlequin

Eat books, not brains!

blacbird

Ellis Clover

watching The Office again

Twick

Harlequin

Eat books, not brains!

Roxxsmom

Beastly Fido

Keithy

Just keep swimming

ForeverYoursCaffiene

Bufty

Where have the last ten years gone?