My twitter feed is full of semi-woke men
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As a society in general, there's still too much emphasis on harassment being the victim's issue, and not enough on people recognizing harassment before they do it. It's always "don't wear the short skirt or you're asking for it" not "don't think a short skirt is an invitation." So you're going to get grown men who have to ask that question, because they never learned the difference and never thought to ask before all this came up; they just absorbed the cultural idea that it's "boys being boys" or "when girls say no they mean yes" or "it's not really harassment if I don't physically attack her" or "real men take what they want." We need to work on changing that, starting as young as possible...
JMHO, and not intending to excuse harassment...
JMHO, and not intending to excuse harassment...
What surprises me is how many of them really want - and expect - to be told, "No, no - you're fine. It wasn't." Because otherwise they'll feel bad.
Feeling bad is probably appropriate. At any rate, it's a teachable moment.
ETA: Although I feel compelled to add that it's weird that a grown man would need to be taught this sort of thing.
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Apparently grown men need to be taught that it's not nice to masturbate in front of women (who are not consensual sex partners)
http://www.vulture.com/2017/11/louis-c-k-masturbation-allegations-a-timeline.html
http://www.vulture.com/2017/11/louis-c-k-masturbation-allegations-a-timeline.html
Also the guys protesting that men in general are being vilified and hey, I'm one of the good ones!
If these stories are making you feel defensive, there's probably good reason for that, and you should be more closely examining your own behavior.
Tiffany Haddish said it perfectly on SNL last night: "Men, if you've got your thing-thing out and she's got all her clothes on, you're wrong!"
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Was coming to post same. Cracked me up -- and such a simple rule.
Yeah, no. Strippers don't get fully naked.
Right, and strip clubs don't allow masturbation. If you can't meet the minimum standards in general public that a strip club expects you to follow, you're really doing something wrong.
Also let's please not start slut-shaming by implying it's acceptable to denigrate or humiliate strippers.
Once more for the people in the back!
I agree we shouldn't slut-shame strippers. Note also that strippers have bouncers, bartenders and waitstaff looking out for them. It's a shame that comediennes don't have that kind of protection - and that they need it.
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That is the REALLY crazy part! Some men are acting like not masturbating in front of colleagues (who are not consensual sex partners)/in public, or refraining from grinding their crotches into some womens' shoulder/ or not masturbating into potted plants is like...some highly nuanced, very complex behavioral standard. Seriously? Is this what they learn at home?
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Wow, Johnny! You went a whole day without exposing yourself to someone and whacking off. Have a cookie.
Seriously, I do remember this approach being used with some "troublesome" little boys in grade school. Not re whacking off, but they'd be praised and rewarded for going a whole day without kicking or hitting someone or for going a whole day without being otherwise a jerk. "Bobby has been sooooo good today we're going to let him choose the book I read to the class after lunch," and so on.
I imagine this does teach some boys that simply behaving normally (by restraining their little ids in an age-appropriate manner) is amazingly laudatory. Note, this may have ticked off the boys in my class who generally behaved well as much as it did the girls.
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"Donny, you made it another week without starting a nuclear war! Go play another round of golf."
(May need to be revoked due to that latest North Korea tweet....)
We're not letting Donald play games with sticks any more because people get hurt. But here's a star for his Good Behaviour Chart.
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I was about to share this on my twitter, but then I realized that strip clubs DO allow cat calls and some pretty disgusting language. So I think that bar is still too low.
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Okay, now I have an image of a sort of Simpsonesque scene (like the one where Bart is doing lines on the board in the opening credits). A boy (or man) writing, "No one wants to see your penis" 100 times.
Yes, agreed. I didn't mean to imply that was where the bar should be set, just that omg even a strip club expects you to act better than some of these guys are managing.
FYI, guys, don't send women passive-aggressive rep messages, especially in a thread like this. It's really tone-deaf.
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As frustrating as it is to see guys who managed to reach adulthood (and older) without realizing something so simple, I figure better late than never. As Maya Angelou said (paraphrasing from memory), "I did the best I could with what I knew, and when I learned better, I did better."
We all muddle through life as best we can. These guys can't change the past, but they can change their behavior moving forward, and that's a massive step in the right direction. Is it frustrating that they're only figuring it out now? Of course, but people have a massive blind spot to their own lived experiences.
When I was five, my 12 year old neighbor tried to rape me. His younger brother caught him in the act, dragged him off of me before he got my clothes iff, and told me to run home and tell my mom what had happened.
At five, I thought he wanted a horsey ride and was just doing it wrong.
Years passed. I learned about sex and rape on a typical timetable. I read Clan of the Cave Bear at, oh 12 or 13, and I understood exactly what was going on in the rape scenes, so I learned the concept at some point prior . However, I was sixteen when it finally hit me.... "holy crap! He was trying to rape me!" Somehow I went years without putting two and two together.
We all muddle through life as best we can. These guys can't change the past, but they can change their behavior moving forward, and that's a massive step in the right direction. Is it frustrating that they're only figuring it out now? Of course, but people have a massive blind spot to their own lived experiences.
When I was five, my 12 year old neighbor tried to rape me. His younger brother caught him in the act, dragged him off of me before he got my clothes iff, and told me to run home and tell my mom what had happened.
At five, I thought he wanted a horsey ride and was just doing it wrong.
Years passed. I learned about sex and rape on a typical timetable. I read Clan of the Cave Bear at, oh 12 or 13, and I understood exactly what was going on in the rape scenes, so I learned the concept at some point prior . However, I was sixteen when it finally hit me.... "holy crap! He was trying to rape me!" Somehow I went years without putting two and two together.
This is fine, but I just think they shouldn't be awarded a penis till they can be trusted to manage it.
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