A question about "them" and "they"

perezbalen · Oct 30, 2017

Hi

I have this situation.

The cadets are looking towards a captain and a private talking inside a car. The car has polarized windows, so the cadets are looking in the direction of the captain, but can't see him or the private, as the glass is too dark. The private is feeling paranoid, and feels like the cadets are looking straight at him. So, I redacted it this way:

The cadets were all looking towards them. Of course, the glass was too dark for them to see them talking, but it felt like they could.

This, has the problem that the two "them" are confusing, as each one is referring to a different group. So my gut told me to change it to:

The cadets were all looking towards them. Of course, the glass was too dark for they to see them talking, but it felt like they could.

Is it correct?
(I checked the Interwebs, but couldn't find any help with such a specific case))

cornflake · Oct 30, 2017

perezbalen said:
Hi

I have this situation.

The cadets are looking towards a captain and a private talking inside a car. The car has polarized windows, so the cadets are looking in the direction of the captain, but can't see him or the private, as the glass is too dark. The private is feeling paranoid, and feels like the cadets are looking straight at him. So, I redacted it this way:

The cadets were all looking towards them. Of course, the glass was too dark for them to see them talking, but it felt like they could.

This, has the problem that the two "them" are confusing, as each one is referring to a different group. So my gut told me to change it to:

The cadets were all looking towards them. Of course, the glass was too dark for they to see them talking, but it felt like they could.

Is it correct?
(I checked the Interwebs, but couldn't find any help with such a specific case))

Your gut is incorrect.

You have an unclear antecedent.

You fix that by clarifying the antecedent.

The glass was too dark for the cadets to see the captain and private talking (or vice versa, as I can't tell, as this is the exact problem with unclear antecedents), but the cadets (or whomever) felt like they could.

perezbalen · Oct 30, 2017

Thanks cornflake. Very helpful.

cornflake · Oct 30, 2017

Unclear antecedents can be hard because people use them in speech a lot -- with inflection and other cues it's easier to tell what someone is talking about, and people frame things in certain ways. In text, however, it needs clarity.

A classic unclear antecedent example sentence is:

The cop noticed the suspect as soon as he took off his sunglasses.

That might sound fine at first, but ask yourself who took off the glasses. The only way to fix it is to clarify what's meant to attach to the pronoun, like so: The cop noticed the suspect as soon as the suspect took off his sunglasses.

BethS · Oct 31, 2017

Of course, the glass was too dark for they to see them talking

In addition to Cornflake's remarks--"they" can never be used as an object, but only as a subject, while "them" can only be an object.

So "They ran away from them," never "Them ran away from they." In that particular sentence above, "they" is in the position of being the object of the preposition "for." So it must be "them" for it be grammatically correct. However, as Cornflake said, your antecedents are unclear, so you need to rethink that sentence entirely. Perhaps describe, from the private's POV, a sensation of being watched by the cadets behind the black glass.

Daggilarr · Nov 7, 2017

You need to rewrite the sentence. Sometimes a sentence can be correct but ugly. Substitute the second 'them' for something like "...the people in the car talking."

A question about "them" and "they"

perezbalen

cornflake

practical experience, FTW

perezbalen

cornflake

practical experience, FTW

BethS

Daggilarr