What is better - self pub or anthologies?

vintage

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Hello,

I have few short stories that fit current open calls for anthologies. Those anthologies won't be published until later next year, same goes for profits. Some have fixed price per story, some have 50-60% royalties share between authors(not sure what it means).

Which is more worth it/profitable: publishing your short stories in anthologies by small publishers or going full self-pub on Amazon ( + Smashwords, etc)?

My main goal is money, not really becoming famous or something. I know it is a lot of work, but I heard when it comes to short erotic stories on Amazon, it is a numbers game, more than anything. Not as much as quality game or something else.

Advice, experience? :)

What pros and cons of each way in comparison to another?

Thank you.
 

c.m.n.

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I'd say it depends on what your wanting to do afterward. If you're looking at working with publishers in the future, anthogies can be a good way to "test the waters", so to speak.

When you say some publishers have 50-60% royalties share, it means royalties are split between authors in the anthology. So if five other authors are also in the antho, you'll split the 60% royalties with them. Example: if your antho makes $200 in its first month, divide it by five. But honestly, all the anthologies I've been in barely hit $200.

Anyway, if you're not set on publishing with a publisher some day, it might be more fun to self publish. This way you can be in control of everything + the short stories don't run out of contract so they'll stay on Amazon longer until you decide to take them down. It's also a lot more work. Remember you have to do everything from the covers to marketing, to editing, etc.

But, I must clarify this statement you make: "I heard when it comes to short erotic stories on Amazon, it is a numbers game, more than anything. Not as much as quality game or something else."

In my experience, it's both a numbers game and a quality game. Readers are voracious. They want more stories. All. The. Time. However, you MUST produce quality work in terms of editing and plot (if any) or else readers won't come back for your other shorts.
 
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Maryn

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I am not the most experienced or widely published erotica writer around, so add the necessary grain of salt.

My understanding is that in general, the greater number of sales often comes from commercial (a.k.a. trade) ebook publishers. Even if they don't promote your book much or at all, the fact that they publish erotica and offer it sorted by subgenre all in one place assures a certain level of sales. Readers rely on them as a gatekeeper for quality and for availability of new works in their preferred subgenres. Not every book at every such publisher is really good, but all have been through multiple rounds of edits, are formatted properly for every kind of ereading device, have professionally done cover art, etc.

One way to get your foot in the door at commercial publishers is by having paid credits in trade published anthologies. It barely matters whether you made much money--and a bunch of authors dividing up royalties means you won't--but it does increase the likelihood of a trade publisher asking for the manuscript, or reading further into it because other publishers have considered your work worth their investment.

On the other hand--and this part is hearsay, since I have not self-published yet--if you are able to produce quality erotica quickly, and get it out there self-published with a professional looking cover and properly edits, you can make good money.

The issue with many first-time erotica authors is that they cannot really judge for themselves whether what they've written is both good quality and marketable. Writers who opt to self-publish after commercial publication know better what quality they produce and whether they need professional editing.

That said, though, a number of authors here at AW have reported very poor sales of their self-published works, which is demoralizing. I know they can write, so I assume the self-promotion is lacking. It's hard, especially for us introvert writers.

Maryn, inching toward self-pubbing
 

dangerousbill

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My first publication was in an anthology, and it paid well. ($300 if you must know, for a 12K word story) Many anthology editors sometimes find themselves short when it comes to filling out their table of contents, and are less discriminating. I think this was true in my case, because when I read my story years later, I had to swallow dry bread to keep from puking.

There's another, less ethical way to make money writing, especially in erotica. Produce short stories as fast as you can. That means changing character names and twiddling with the plot and setting, but otherwise leaving it mostly the same. Make them about 2500 words long. The most important thing is an enticing cover and sales blurb. Put them up on Amazon for $2.99. I've seen as many as nine stories "published" in a day by some authors. (How I'd love to name some of them.) If in doubt, click on the author's name and see how many and how often they pump stuff out.
 
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DrDLN

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I think you're the best judge to know what you want out of this publication. Sorry, it is not what you're looking for but that is just my opinion. Good luck!
 

vintage

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sorry, everyone, couldn't answer right away. thank you for all the replies!

I'd say it depends on what your wanting to do afterward. If you're looking at working with publishers in the future, anthologies can be a good way to "test the waters", so to speak.


I have plans to work with publishers on other genres(like romance) and novellas and novels. And I got the impression that erotica earns more in self pub, and you personally have less rules to follow and restrictions. With erotic romance maybe the publisher is a better way?


When you say some publishers have 50-60% royalties share, it means royalties are split between authors in the anthology. So if five other authors are also in the antho, you'll split the 60% royalties with them. Example: if your antho makes $200 in its first month, divide it by five. But honestly, all the anthologies I've been in barely hit $200.
that was my main concern. I was wondering how can a small publisher make any income from anthology to their authors.
I also heard, the audience on Amazon(and similar sites, good for self pub) is quite different from other places, publishers, sites for free promotions etc.


Anyway, if you're not set on publishing with a publisher some day, it might be more fun to self publish. This way you can be in control of everything + the short stories don't run out of contract so they'll stay on Amazon longer until you decide to take them down. It's also a lot more work. Remember you have to do everything from the covers to marketing, to editing, etc.


But, I must clarify this statement you make: "I heard when it comes to short erotic stories on Amazon, it is a numbers game, more than anything. Not as much as quality game or something else."


In my experience, it's both a numbers game and a quality game. Readers are voracious. They want more stories. All. The. Time. However, you MUST produce quality work in terms of editing and plot (if any) or else readers won't come back for your other shorts.


I am ready to do all the parts required for self pub. Though, I need a lot to learn to do the editing. But even if I work with publisher, I need to edit my work thoroughly, because English is not my first language.


Despite everything, I mostly want to write the stories and gain experience as a writer, before I move to different genres/more serious works. Short erotic stories make me feel relaxed about the whole publishing process, because if (even bad)self-published stuff sells, it is worth trying and is not crazy to expect a bit of profit in return. But because right now I need to make money(or do work that slowly build be some kind of a career, haha), I also cannot write just for my enjoyment.


Thank you, really helpful information. Do you mean, the anthologies barely hit $200 in a month or through all the time they sell?


I am not the most experienced or widely published erotica writer around, so add the necessary grain of salt.


My understanding is that in general, the greater number of sales often comes from commercial (a.k.a. trade) ebook publishers. Even if they don't promote your book much or at all, the fact that they publish erotica and offer it sorted by subgenre all in one place assures a certain level of sales. Readers rely on them as a gatekeeper for quality and for availability of new works in their preferred subgenres. Not every book at every such publisher is really good, but all have been through multiple rounds of edits, are formatted properly for every kind of ereading device, have professionally done cover art, etc.


One way to get your foot in the door at commercial publishers is by having paid credits in trade published anthologies. It barely matters whether you made much money--and a bunch of authors dividing up royalties means you won't--but it does increase the likelihood of a trade publisher asking for the manuscript, or reading further into it because other publishers have considered your work worth their investment.


On the other hand--and this part is hearsay, since I have not self-published yet--if you are able to produce quality erotica quickly, and get it out there self-published with a professional looking cover and properly edits, you can make good money.


The issue with many first-time erotica authors is that they cannot really judge for themselves whether what they've written is both good quality and marketable. Writers who opt to self-publish after commercial publication know better what quality they produce and whether they need professional editing.


That said, though, a number of authors here at AW have reported very poor sales of their self-published works, which is demoralizing. I know they can write, so I assume the self-promotion is lacking. It's hard, especially for us introvert writers.


Maryn, inching toward self-pubbing
Do you mean, sales are greater from trade ebook publishers even for short stories? Can you give any names? I already saw some publishers, but regarding short stories it is hard to distinguish between small publisher and commercial publisher for me. Or do you mean publishers like Amazon etc?


paid credits - do you mean, getting paid a fixed price for a short story? at first I tohught you meant buying place to be in the anthology :D English is not my native language, having troubles sometimes with it :\


the thing is, I've read some worldwide famous authors, and the level of writing suprised me. Few major erotica/erotic romance best sellers made me extremely amazed about what is considered quality by the readers. This is partially why I am not scared to dive into self pub with this genre. So, I am really sceptical aobut the judging part. It sometimes feels like part of success is pure luck/good marketing, not really the content itself.


Thank you for your advice, I think I'm going try with the anthologies at least to get a feel of working with editor and getting some feedback before diving into self pub.


The poor sales in USA are great sales for my region. Also, marketing for writers is a really tough thing, I guess. It's hard to promote something people need to read to judge, not just stare at it for few seconds, like with movie trailers. This is why I think a good book trailer can be a great thing, though isn't easy/cheap to do. Was there any notable topic on marketing in AW?

My first publication was in an anthology, and it paid well. ($300 if you must know, for a 12K word story) Many anthology editors sometimes find themselves short when it comes to filling out their table of contents, and are less discriminating. I think this was true in my case, because when I read my story years later, I had to swallow dry bread to keep from puking.


There's another, less ethical way to make money writing, especially in erotica. Produce short stories as fast as you can. That means changing character names and twiddling with the plot and setting, but otherwise leaving it mostly the same. Make them about 2500 words long. The most important thing is an enticing cover and sales blurb. Put them up on Amazon for $2.99. I've seen as many as nine stories "published" in a day by some authors. (How I'd love to name some of them.) If in doubt, click on the author's name and see how many and how often they pump stuff out.
hmm, I am confused about the prices. I see anthologies paying $200 for 2000-5000 words or similar. Fair point, if they short on the material, the chances are good for anyone applying. haha, good thing is you can see now your progress!Why do you consider it less ethical method? a lot of popular writers across the genres do that(sometimes with ghost writers). It is more about the money, than art, approach. I guess if people cannot make money otherwise, it is fine? Because sometimes I just want to read 10 variations of same fantasy story. Especially if the market lacks any content on that. And if it's my favorite author, all the better. But yeah, I get what you mean. I am more concerned with people, who do not perfect their writing for the reader, and post it the moment they think it is fine, which leads to ton of mediocre best sellers. Also, if those authors you mention put it on Amazon, it doesn't mean it sells well, or sells at all. I heard some people but their own stuff to become popular in charts or something.


I would say do both.
I think, if I manage with the deadlines, I'll do just that. My tiny problem, all my stories end up tied together, so having a story in anthology that has continuation in my self publishing can be both pro and con.


I think you're the best judge to know what you want out of this publication. Sorry, it is not what you're looking for but that is just my opinion. Good luck!
thanks, it's always important to trust own intuition! each case is special, and of course it is hard to explain fully explain capabilities and situation through the internet
 

c.m.n.

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I have plans to work with publishers on other genres(like romance) and novellas and novels. And I got the impression that erotica earns more in self pub, and you personally have less rules to follow and restrictions. With erotic romance maybe the publisher is a better way?

I was wondering how can a small publisher make any income from anthology to their authors.
I also heard, the audience on Amazon(and similar sites, good for self pub) is quite different from other places, publishers, sites for free promotions etc.

I am ready to do all the parts required for self pub. Though, I need a lot to learn to do the editing. But even if I work with publisher, I need to edit my work thoroughly, because English is not my first language.

Thank you, really helpful information. Do you mean, the anthologies barely hit $200 in a month or through all the time they sell?

You're welcome. I'll cover some of your other questions quoted above.

For anthologies, everyone is different. My $200 is just an example. Most anthologies should make more than that. If they're dividing the royalties between authors, the publisher expects the anthology to sell well based on their experience.

As if erotic romance would do better under a publisher, that too is different. Many authors are super successful self-publishing their erotic romance. Other authors decide to go through a publisher.

Since you say that English isn't your first language, though, my advice would be to focus on writing first. I'd also suggest to ask around for some beta readers. If you do beta swapping, it can help you also improve on your English and writing skills, and teach you how to edit.

As for audience, this is also different as well. There can be some audience cross-over from a publisher to Amazon self-published work, depending if the reader really enjoys your stuff. There's also some audience cross-over from free-to-post sites and published work. A lot of people looking for freebies probably won't purchase your book, but that's not definite.
 

Maryn

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Just to cover the flip side of the coin, I've sold to, ah, I think it's four anthologies, and I never made anything like $200. I think the biggie was $75.

Maryn, who can afford to eat
 

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One of my best placements for a short story was a charity anthology that ended up being full of fairly big name authors. Zero money, but the month it launched thousands of people googled me and checkout out my webpage and I saw an uptick in sales of my other titles.
 

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One of my best placements for a short story was a charity anthology that ended up being full of fairly big name authors. Zero money, but the month it launched thousands of people googled me and checkout out my webpage and I saw an uptick in sales of my other titles.

Good point! Opportunity for exposure sounds like a good trade-off, especially for those of us who are just getting started. Does anyone have any recommendations on where to browse anthologies calling for submissions? I'm on Writer's Market, but I wasn't sure if there was a better place for this genre.
 

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Good point! Opportunity for exposure sounds like a good trade-off, especially for those of us who are just getting started. Does anyone have any recommendations on where to browse anthologies calling for submissions? I'm on Writer's Market, but I wasn't sure if there was a better place for this genre.
I rely heavily on the Erotica Readers and Writers Association's Call for Submissions page.

Right now, I only have experience selling shorts to anthologies. So far, it's been slow-going but rewarding in that someone-else-thinks-my-work-is-worth-publishing sense. I get especially giddy when author copies arrive in the mail. I like that there's no cost upfront, though pubs vary widely in terms of how much they'll pay per story. Only you can decide how much your words, time, efforts, etc. are worth. The editors I've worked with have run the gamut from totally hands-off to attentive and personable, allowing for multiple opportunities to tweak and perfect my work prior to publication. I can't say I've seen a huge influx of visitors to my website or interactions via social media, but my most recent release has benefited from a big ARC push from the publisher. Something to keep in mind when subbing to anthology calls: you are often limited to either writing to market (for themed anthologies) or tweaking what you already have to fit the guidelines.

There's no reason you can't do both, self-publish some stories while submitting others to anthologies (not the same stories, of course, unless the call is open to pre-published work).
 
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I received a <cough> sex toy for my contribution to an anthology. :tongue

(The money would have been long gone by now, but I still have that stupid sex toy/trophy.)
 

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I rely heavily on the Erotica Readers and Writers Association's Call for Submissions page.

There's no reason you can't do both, self-publish some stories while submitting others to anthologies (not the same stories, of course, unless the call is open to pre-published work).

Hi... I've picked up the erotica baton relatively recently, deciding to run with it and see where it takes me, while my fantasy novel series bubbles along. I, too, have been looking at the ERWA submissions pages and am preparing my first 8000+ short story for consideration for their anthology. I'm interested to see how this works out for me, but in the back of my mind is a small voice telling me not to wait around while its going through the referral process. He's telling me that I could be using the time more productively by designing a front cover and publishing it myself.

Can I ask what your impression of working with the ERWA has been doing this kind of thing? You say you rely heavily on it, but I'm still not sure that its for me to be honest. Any tips on this subject would be gratefully received if you could. :)
 

StoryofWoe

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Hi... I've picked up the erotica baton relatively recently, deciding to run with it and see where it takes me, while my fantasy novel series bubbles along. I, too, have been looking at the ERWA submissions pages and am preparing my first 8000+ short story for consideration for their anthology. I'm interested to see how this works out for me, but in the back of my mind is a small voice telling me not to wait around while its going through the referral process. He's telling me that I could be using the time more productively by designing a front cover and publishing it myself.

Can I ask what your impression of working with the ERWA has been doing this kind of thing? You say you rely heavily on it, but I'm still not sure that its for me to be honest. Any tips on this subject would be gratefully received if you could. :)
I'm afraid I haven't participated in ERWA's exclusive anthology calls, and I'm sorry I didn't specify that in my post. I mainly use them to sniff out other publisher's calls. I did check out the ERWA Themed Anthology call for multi-partner erotica, but the depth of involvement they seek from their authors is more than I'm willing to give. I'm happy to work with editors. I'm not interested in editing other authors' work. That's time and energy I could be spending on my own stuff or critiquing for trusted beta readers.
 

Maryn

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Wait, they want you to edit other writers' stories? Uh, no. I am utterly unqualified and they (and I) deserve real editors. That'd be a deal breaker for me.
 

StoryofWoe

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Wait, they want you to edit other writers' stories? Uh, no. I am utterly unqualified and they (and I) deserve real editors. That'd be a deal breaker for me.

Yep, they do.
Authors of anthology stories must contribute critiques of other authors’ work. Reciprocal critiques are an incredibly important part of this effort. Would-be participants should provide the level of critique that they would hope to receive.
 

thethinker42

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That sounds exploitative to me -- asking writers to work for free doing the work that should fall on the editor's shoulders. That would be like one of my publishers including in my contract that I also have to proofread someone else's novel. Uh, no? You're making money off my story. Don't ask me for free labor when you're already profiting off me.