H.R. 620: Amending the ADA of 1990

Lyv

I meant to do that.
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Aug 5, 2007
Messages
4,958
Reaction score
1,934
Location
Outside Boston
Alternate thread subtitle: Because people with disabilities have it too easy.

From the summary (and this is only one aspect. Link to the bill):

The bill prohibits civil actions based on the failure to remove an architectural barrier to access into an existing public accommodation unless: (1) the aggrieved person has provided to the owners or operators a written notice specific enough to identify the barrier, and (2) the owners or operators fail to provide the person with a written description outlining improvements that will be made to improve the barrier or they fail to remove the barrier or make substantial progress after providing such a description. The aggrieved person's notice must specify: (1) the address of the property, (2) the specific ADA sections alleged to have been violated, (3) whether a request for assistance in removing an architectural barrier was made, and (4) whether the barrier was permanent or temporary.}/QUOTE]

What the ACLU has to say:
Title III of the ADA creates a proactive duty on businesses to remove architectural barriers and other obstacles that impede access to the establishment. But businesses have resisted making such changes for decades. And, now, they are asking Congress to help them. A harmful new bill in the House of Representatives, the so-called ADA Education and Reform Act of 2017 (H.R. 620), is gaining steam. It will be debated in the House Judiciary Committee on Thursday morning and may go to House floor for a vote soon thereafter.

We must stop this bill from ever becoming law.


H.R. 620 would completely change the way in which a business is required to comply with the ADA. Instead of requiring that a business comply proactively, the bill would place the burden on the individual who is being denied access. This bill proposes that after an individual with a disability is denied access she must first notify the business owner, with exacting specificity, that her civil rights were violated, and then wait for six months to see if the business will make “substantial progress” toward access, before going to a court to order compliance.


Business owners can spend years out of compliance and face no penalty even after they receive notice, so long as the owners claim “substantial progress.” By allowing a business an endless amount of time to become compliant with the ADA’s reasonable requirements, H.R. 620 removes any incentive for a business to proactively ensure that people with disabilities have access. Instead, the bill encourages businesses to just wait until an individual’s civil rights are violated before making any changes.

The bill is sponsored by Red Ted Poe of TX and currently has 51 co-sponsors (40 Republicans, 11 Democrats). Over half signed on last week, so it is, as the ACLU states, gaining steam. This should not become law and I'd appreciate any help preventing it from making the lives of millions of Americans harder.
 

Anna Iguana

reading all the things
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jan 16, 2017
Messages
925
Reaction score
219
Location
US
I will be calling my House representative. Thank you for letting us know.
 

Introversion

Pie aren't squared, pie are round!
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 17, 2013
Messages
10,612
Reaction score
14,744
Location
Massachusetts
Is there a list of who's co-sponsoring this mess?

I admit I'm not at all surprised to see 40 Republicans doing so, but am surprised & dismayed that 11 Democrats are. :tongue
 

Lyv

I meant to do that.
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Aug 5, 2007
Messages
4,958
Reaction score
1,934
Location
Outside Boston
Is there a list of who's co-sponsoring this mess?

I admit I'm not at all surprised to see 40 Republicans doing so, but am surprised & dismayed that 11 Democrats are. :tongue

Yes, click the link for the bill in my post. I signed up for alerts, so I get an email when co-sponsors are added or the bill moves along in the process. I do that with any bill I especially want to fail or succeed so I can take appropriate action.
 

cmhbob

Did...did I do that?
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 28, 2011
Messages
5,729
Reaction score
4,773
Location
Green Country
Website
www.bobmuellerwriter.com
Is there a list of who's co-sponsoring this mess?

Lyv's link is to COngress.gov, which has a Cosponsors tab.

https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-bill/620/cosponsors

Edit: We used to own some property in Austin that had a Jack-In-The-Box, and got sued in an ADA complaint. Because the parking places were 2 inches too narrow. There are people who make a business out of filing ADA lawsuits for large amounts, then offering to settle for a smaller amount. Similarly, people were calling smaller hotels in the Southwest and asking if they had a lift for the swimming pool. If the answer was no, a lawsuit was filed. The claim was always, "I was going to stay there, but they didn't have a lift." The most common result of those lawsuits was not increased availability, but decreased. It was cheaper for the property owner to fill in the pool than it was to install lifts. So there are people out there who abuse the ADA system, and I suspect this is generally aimed at working to stop that, in a cannon-vs-fly kind of way.
 
Last edited:

Roxxsmom

Beastly Fido
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 24, 2011
Messages
23,057
Reaction score
10,704
Location
Where faults collide
Website
doggedlywriting.blogspot.com
Definitely check out the above link, even if you live in a liberal state or district. My Representative is on the list of co-sponsors, in spite of being a Democrat. A number of Californians are involved (from both parties).

I suspect the issue is that some local businesses have gone under because of suits brought re having inaccessible bathrooms and so on. There can be a lot of local media outrage over this, as business owners who rent space in older buildings often lack the money to come into compliance, and moving isn't always an option. The problem, however, is the lack of state and federal funds to assist small business owners (ones with revenue below a certain threshold) with increasing accessibility, and this bill doesn't seem to change that.

It looks like making life harder for people with disabilities is a bipartisan project, and quite popular in our so-called "blue" state. I'll give him a call.
 
Last edited:

Introversion

Pie aren't squared, pie are round!
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 17, 2013
Messages
10,612
Reaction score
14,744
Location
Massachusetts
Missed the tab, thanks.

Looks like there are no Massachusetts sponsors of it, so my objections to another state's senators probably weigh between zero and none.
 

Luciferical

Sockpuppet
Banned
Joined
Jul 27, 2017
Messages
123
Reaction score
4
Location
USA
Does anyone have any stats for how often architectural barrier issues go to court, versus not?

I see the very shallow idea that this might reduce such cases. But even if true, I think the proactive requirement as is now is better.

This is just a point of curiosity.
 

Lyv

I meant to do that.
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Aug 5, 2007
Messages
4,958
Reaction score
1,934
Location
Outside Boston
Missed the tab, thanks.

Looks like there are no Massachusetts sponsors of it, so my objections to another state's senators probably weigh between zero and none.
I'm in Massachusetts, and called my rep asking that he not sign on and instead to work to defeat this. Sometimes they tally calls for or against bills. In my case, it's Rep. Lynch and though he's a Democrat, this thing just picked up another Democratic co-sponsor today and Lynch sometimes disappoints me. When I called, a staffer told me he has not yet stated a position on this bill and that they are taking comments. This is actually a good time to call, because once they publicly support, it's harder to change their votes.

I checked the committee it's been sent to and there are no Massachusetts reps on it, but if there were, they would get a call from me. I'll sometimes call a committee member, even if they aren't my representative or senator. Depending on the staffer that answers, you can at least get some information. I get friends to call, too.
 

Fingers

My cat Toby
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Nov 27, 2006
Messages
625
Reaction score
283
Age
69
Location
Somewhere in the woods around Portland Oregon
I thought it was supposed to be the governments job to enforce the law. So whats next, police will not respond to a murder call until ten or more people call to let them know there was a murder? And then make those people prove it was a murder before they investigate or arrest someone? Sounds like the democrats have figured out they have no chance in hell being effective anymore so they jumped on the republican bandwagon with a hearty call of "If ya cant beat em, join em".
 
Last edited:

Roxxsmom

Beastly Fido
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 24, 2011
Messages
23,057
Reaction score
10,704
Location
Where faults collide
Website
doggedlywriting.blogspot.com
My democratic rep is one of the bill's co sponsors >.<

I called and said that I was concerned about this bill because it shifts the burden to the disabled person who is denied access and doesn't require businesses to be proactive in providing access. Why would business owners bother to be in compliance until after they get a complaint if this bill becomes law? Meanwhile, the disabled individuals are forced to become activists and have to wait for months or longer before they get to use the business.

I think I know why my congressman supports this bill, actually. There have been a few local cases involving a lawyer, who is disabled, who visits businesses to see if they are in compliance, and he hits them with lawsuits if they aren't. A couple of these involved beloved local burger stands--which operated out of cramped, old buildings that couldn't be brought into compliance. For some reason the owners of the buildings weren't responsible for updating the restrooms or doorways. It was apparently down to the tenant/business owners to pay for improvements on a property that wasn't theirs to begin with. And there doesn't seem to be any money available from the government for coming into compliance. One burger stand moved and is doing better than ever (after a local outpouring of sympathy and outrage over "political correctness," while the other went under. It's sad, but what's the alternative? Telling people with disabilities to suck it up?

The businesses complain about not being given time to comply after receiving a complaint under the current law, but in most cases they have been out of compliance for years and benefiting from the fact that people in wheelchairs are a small minority and many do suck it up.

I can only imagine how frustrating it must be to go through one's day never knowing if one will be able to get into or navigate a public space or to use the restroom if needed and knowing one has to go through the pain and hassles of lodging formal and very exacting complaints to get anything changed.
 
Last edited:

Luciferical

Sockpuppet
Banned
Joined
Jul 27, 2017
Messages
123
Reaction score
4
Location
USA
I think the problem is being overstated a bit.

This may shift burden. However, state and local building codes are going to continue enforcing handicapped-accessible construction.

Aside from the large amount of litigation I've heard complaints about, at least in the limited business exposure I've had, no one complains about accommodating the challenges of people with various disabilities.

Oh, and some of what's claimed to be a disability under the act, complaints there, too.
 

Roxxsmom

Beastly Fido
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 24, 2011
Messages
23,057
Reaction score
10,704
Location
Where faults collide
Website
doggedlywriting.blogspot.com
I think the problem is being overstated a bit.

This may shift burden. However, state and local building codes are going to continue enforcing handicapped-accessible construction.

Aside from the large amount of litigation I've heard complaints about, at least in the limited business exposure I've had, no one complains about accommodating the challenges of people with various disabilities.

Oh, and some of what's claimed to be a disability under the act, complaints there, too.

It's true that there are rules for new construction, and compliance with the ADA is a part of the whole planning process when new buildings are being proposed or older ones renovated. But many of the frustrations that disabled people face aren't with businesses in newer buildings, but with the ones located in older ones that haven't undergone major renovations in years. There are different rules about compliance in these cases, and some things are grandfathered, but there are still minimum standards that need to be met with regards to things like parking spaces, restroom access, ramps and so on. Many places of business aren't in compliance and the only thing that motivates them is if someone reports them or actually brings a lawsuit.

This law essentially adds another set of steps for a disabled person seeking redress in this situation. Instead of just reporting the business directly for non compliance, and instead of being able to bring a lawsuit straight away, they have to wait for six months. And they now have to provide a detailed report to the business owner of what the violation is and how it should be remedied.

Disabled people are not inspectors, and they have no more time to wait for access or to do this kind of research than anyone else. Imagine if we had to perform our own health inspections in restaurants and had to go thought this kind of process (contacting the owner of said restaurant) before we could report violations.

Business owners are the ones who should know the rules.
 

Lyv

I meant to do that.
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Aug 5, 2007
Messages
4,958
Reaction score
1,934
Location
Outside Boston
Thank you, Roxxsmom, for your response. I was too upset to respond myself, but today, I noticed six more Republicans signed on as co-sponsors, while one Democrat withdrew (if that's due to activism, thank you, everyone who called him or otherwise fought this).

For those who think this is not that bad: I'm disabled and under current law, still have had a years-long battle over access in one location only. It's been years-long because every time I pick it back up and start the process, I either end up in the hospital or sick or lose another set of abilities that require me to problem-solve, which can involve everything from figuring out how to do something to hours of research before purchasing am items or items that might work for a period of time to renovating my house. This week, I found I can't consistently turn off the shower (so I am looking at which faucets might make that easier, even though that's why we chose our current ones, so there are a few trips to hardware stores, which will use up my energy for a few days after each excursion) unless I rest for about a half hour after showering. Flushing the toilet is hit or miss, so we're looking into that, too. Yeah, let's make it harder for me to go the few places I even go anymore, and further stigmatize people with disabilities by treating us differently, by suggesting we're just being unreasonable when we want the laws of the land enforced the way they (in theory) are for everyone else.

Which civil right of yours would you wait for? Why should the government shift much of the responsibility for enforcing its law to you in this one area?

Here's an anecdote that may be tangentially relevant. I live in Massachusetts and not all grocery stores have liquor licenses. Mine doesn't. If I want a bottle of wine, I have to have my husband drive me somewhere or take my paratransportation, which I love and am grateful for, to a "packy" (liquor store) or other grocery store. It will take hours and be the only thing I can do that day. A cute little wine store opened up in my city's downtown, across the street from a medical building I went to weekly, and I was thrilled. I got great advice on wine, as I have the palate of a toddler, and never minded that the big wooden door was too heavy for me to open. Either someone in the story would notice me struggling, or a passerby would open the door for me. I once had to call the store, waving at the clerk through the window. No big deal. I did it.

One frigid day, few people were out, and the clerk was in the storage room, so I tried to open the door myself. I had to reach across my walked and pull, and I was laughing about how funny I must have looked, because the door wasn't budging, but I was getting progressively more horizontal. The owner, who I always noticed was prickly, opened it and I was still laughing, and thanked her. She said, "I'm just glad there's no ordinance that says I have to replace me beautiful front door." I was not in the mood, so I started browsing. She followed and started a monologue about how awful it is when business owners are forced to accommodate the few people who need it, and, look, she opened the door for me, so no harm done. I was going to let it go, but I politely said, "Yes, your door beautiful, but I was out there awhile, and sometimes the whole world feels like a door I can't open." Yeah, a little dramatic, but there are days like that. Most people would be surprised at how many places, even new places, aren't accessible in a way that actually works for even someone like me who can still use a walker most of the time. She got really angry and ended up yelling at me, and I went home without the wine I wanted to serve to friends the next night (they understood).

So besides making our actual lives harder, forcing us, as a group, to work harder for what we are guaranteed under the law is not equal treatment, and it stigmatizes us.
 

regdog

The Scavengers
Staff member
Moderator
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 27, 2008
Messages
58,075
Reaction score
21,013
Location
She/Her
I think the problem is being overstated a bit.

This may shift burden. However, state and local building codes are going to continue enforcing handicapped-accessible construction.

Aside from the large amount of litigation I've heard complaints about, at least in the limited business exposure I've had, no one complains about accommodating the challenges of people with various disabilities.

Oh, and some of what's claimed to be a disability under the act, complaints there, too.

Overstated? Claimed to be a disability?

I think not

Tennessee Vs Lane-A man in a wheelchair forced to crawl up two flights of stairs for a court hearing. When he refused to crawl up a second time, he was arrested.

Link
 

Lyv

I meant to do that.
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Aug 5, 2007
Messages
4,958
Reaction score
1,934
Location
Outside Boston
Overstated? Claimed to be a disability?

I think not

Tennessee Vs Lane-A man in a wheelchair forced to crawl up two flights of stairs for a court hearing. When he refused to crawl up a second time, he was arrested.

Link
Thank you for the link.

It's horrific and things like that happen every day. Wine Shop Lady is an example of attitudes business owners can have, but there are real horror stories about actual accessibility.

I wasn't sure what "some of what's claimed to be a disability under the act" meant. The act itself doesn't list any conditions:

An individual is considered to have a "disability" if s/he has a physical or mental impairment that substantially limits one or more major life activities, has a record of such an impairment, or is regarded as having such an impairment.

So I guess the meaning was that some people claiming to be disabled aren't. Years of getting stinkeye for my almost-invisible disability (still happens occasionally, and I am now obviously disabled) made me read it as the latter, but it doesn't actually matter. Businesses are complying with the law or they aren't. It shouldn't even take a person with a disability to report a violation (I reported a dangerous one after I was disabled, but before that particular violation was a problem for me. If a person using a wheelchair or walker had first found it, they would have already been in a dangerous situation.). But that's the reality. It's grotesque to shift more responsibility onto us and make us wait for justice because the Department of Justice won't do their whole job.
 

Roxxsmom

Beastly Fido
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 24, 2011
Messages
23,057
Reaction score
10,704
Location
Where faults collide
Website
doggedlywriting.blogspot.com
Most people would be surprised at how many places, even new places, aren't accessible in a way that actually works for even someone like me who can still use a walker most of the time. She got really angry and ended up yelling at me, and I went home without the wine I wanted to serve to friends the next night (they understood).

So besides making our actual lives harder, forcing us, as a group, to work harder for what we are guaranteed under the law is not equal treatment, and it stigmatizes us.

Why doesn't the ADA require her to replace her beautiful front door? Is it a listed building or something? It's ridiculous that access should be so difficult. And what if there were a fire or other emergency?

It's amazing how many loopholes there still are. I get that owners of small businesses often lack the funds to increase accessibility to ADA standards. This goes for other rules too, I'm guessing, whether it be earthquake safety, fire codes, or plumbing and floor plans that meet current health department standards.

Perhaps there should be grants available for this kind of thing. Of course, that would mean more taxes, and the right of the wealthy to not be taxed is considered greater these days than the rights of the disabled, and of other marginalized groups to participate fully in society.

Oh, and some of what's claimed to be a disability under the act, complaints there, too.

Examples here?

I can give you an earful about how the ADA, or current interpretation thereof, has made my job harder in recent years. As a college instructor, we're now required to provide distraction-free environments with up to 2x the normal time on lab exams, because ADHD and dyslexia are considered to be disabilities. This is pretty much impossible to do during normal college hours with exams that already take hours to set up and administer in classrooms that are in use from 8 AM to 10:30 PM. There was extensive negotiation via our union about pay for instructors who might have to come in on weekends or come in at 6 AM or stay until midnight to give private lab practical exams to students whose "blue slips" say they're entitled to these accommodations.

I'm not sure I understand the scientific rationale about how or why these accommodations help these students (no one has ever produced a research paper that explains why extra time allows students with these conditions to perform comparably to others) or gives them an education that prepares students with ADHD or dyslexia for work in a world where they can't always be given more time or distraction free environments. I also can't help but notice the incongruity in a facility where the second floor restrooms aren't wheelchair accessible.

BUT, if this is the price we have to pay to make an education available to all who are willing to work for it, then so be it.
 
Last edited:

Lyv

I meant to do that.
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Aug 5, 2007
Messages
4,958
Reaction score
1,934
Location
Outside Boston
Why doesn't the ADA require her to replace her beautiful front door? Is it a listed building or something? It's ridiculous that access should be so difficult. And what if there were a fire or other emergency?

It's amazing how many loopholes there still are. I get that owners of small businesses often lack the funds to increase accessibility to ADA standards. This goes for other rules too, I'm guessing, whether it be earthquake safety, fire codes, or plumbing and floor plans that meet current health department standards.

Perhaps there should be grants available for this kind of thing. Of course, that would mean more taxes, and the right of the wealthy to not be taxed is considered greater these days than the rights of the disabled, and of other marginalized groups to participate fully in society.
I actually don't know why that door is exempt but I was always fine waiting for someone to come along. I do understand the issues since I have had to make my home accessible and it was no picnic. There are programs to help businesses become compliant, but I don't know how effective they are and if there is financial help.

Doors are always a problem. I have to look it up, but going by what I encounter, electric door openers are required at (some) government buildings and hospitals, and not much else. And that's just to get inside. I've been to new shopping centers (open air, not malls, which seems to be the trend) upscale and not, where the department store, if they have one, has an electric door opener, but every other store, I have to wait for someone to open it for me. People are mostly always great about it, but there isn't always someone there.

I am grateful for the ADA, but there are gaps and with this administration,there will be more. It's galling and worrisome.
 

JJ Litke

People are not wearing enough hats
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Dec 8, 2013
Messages
7,993
Reaction score
4,460
Location
Austin
Website
www.jjlitke.com
The idea that there are a whole lot of people out there falsely claiming to be disabled is really fucked up. For what purpose? Do you think people are filing complaints against businesses and trying to force them to comply just for grins? I don't think that's most people's idea of a fun time.

One of the ugly realities people try hard to ignore in this is that someone could become disabled at any time. A friend of mine was in a wheelchair for years after a car accident. No amount of living a clean life or watching out for your health can stop that from happening to you. And the longer you live, the more likely you are to become disabled. My grandfather spent the last couple years of his life using a walker and wheelchair.

Actually I keep hoping this is one issue where the aging baby boomers can really do some good. They're starting to hit the age ranges where age-related disabilities will dramatically increase, and I bet they won't easily accept the attitude that, eh, you're old, stop expecting you should have a life any more.
 

MaeZe

Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jun 6, 2016
Messages
12,748
Reaction score
6,435
Location
Ralph's side of the island.
Lyv's link is to COngress.gov, which has a Cosponsors tab.

https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-bill/620/cosponsors

Edit: We used to own some property in Austin that had a Jack-In-The-Box, and got sued in an ADA complaint. Because the parking places were 2 inches too narrow. There are people who make a business out of filing ADA lawsuits for large amounts, then offering to settle for a smaller amount. Similarly, people were calling smaller hotels in the Southwest and asking if they had a lift for the swimming pool. If the answer was no, a lawsuit was filed. The claim was always, "I was going to stay there, but they didn't have a lift." The most common result of those lawsuits was not increased availability, but decreased. It was cheaper for the property owner to fill in the pool than it was to install lifts. So there are people out there who abuse the ADA system, and I suspect this is generally aimed at working to stop that, in a cannon-vs-fly kind of way.

Six of the 12 Democrats are from CA. I wonder why that is.
 

Lyv

I meant to do that.
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Aug 5, 2007
Messages
4,958
Reaction score
1,934
Location
Outside Boston
I can give you an earful about how the ADA, or current interpretation thereof, has made my job harder in recent years. As a college instructor, we're now required to provide distraction-free environments with up to 2x the normal time on lab exams, because ADHD and dyslexia are considered to be disabilities. This is pretty much impossible to do during normal college hours with exams that already take hours to set up and administer in classrooms that are in use from 8 AM to 10:30 PM. There was extensive negotiation via our union about pay for instructors who might have to come in on weekends or come in at 6 AM or stay until midnight to give private lab practical exams to students whose "blue slips" say they're entitled to these accommodations.
I wanted to address this separately. At first I was going to do it in a private message, but others might want to respond. I'm mostly focusing on 2018 (voter suppression, gerrymandering), but I activate on disability issues when I can and know activists who are out there working daily. I made a note of the issues you cited and will bring them to discussions about what we need to be fighting for. I know the kinds of accommodations you write of have helped friends' kids, and keeping those kids in mainstream classrooms has as well. I have seen a huge, positive difference in kids I know and love. But what you're describing is a problem that should be addressed. Several of my friends also teach, mostly at the college level, so I am going to ask for their feedback and suggestions as well (and I welcome more of yours).
 

Roxxsmom

Beastly Fido
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 24, 2011
Messages
23,057
Reaction score
10,704
Location
Where faults collide
Website
doggedlywriting.blogspot.com
I wanted to address this separately. At first I was going to do it in a private message, but others might want to respond. I'm mostly focusing on 2018 (voter suppression, gerrymandering), but I activate on disability issues when I can and know activists who are out there working daily. I made a note of the issues you cited and will bring them to discussions about what we need to be fighting for. I know the kinds of accommodations you write of have helped friends' kids, and keeping those kids in mainstream classrooms has as well. I have seen a huge, positive difference in kids I know and love. But what you're describing is a problem that should be addressed. Several of my friends also teach, mostly at the college level, so I am going to ask for their feedback and suggestions as well (and I welcome more of yours).

I agree that it's important to provide options for students who learn differently, and access to higher education is essential for everyone. It's an example of a sacrifice we have to make. We have always given all students on practicals 2x the amount of time needed to answer the questions, and some extra time at the end to go back and ask questions, and for years that was sufficient. Something changed a couple of years ago, and we had to start administering individual exams to students who requested it via the testing center.

My issue, in this case, is not with the ADA but with tone-deaf administrators who have no idea what instructors do with their work days, or what they do in their classrooms, who pass on edicts that will require us to either drastically alter how we teach all our students (for instance, by doing away with lab practicals, which would be the "easiest" option for us), or to take time away from some other aspect of our jobs to spend more time setting up exams and administering them outside of the 8AM-10:30 PM M-Th (and 8-5 on Friday) time frame our rooms are already in use. Administrators think faculty's time to do things is infinite, but of course it isn't. It's really common, in our system at least, for administrators (and faculty in other departments) to implement policies that make it really hard for those of us in the sciences (who teach labs as well as "lecture" style courses) to cope. Very few high level administrators were ever science faculty. Very few, if any, of the people who are experts on accommodations were ever students of the sciences either.

It took a lot of negotiation to get them to agree to extra pay for us if we have to come in outside our normal assignments to accommodate a student on a lab exam (this especially applies to adjuncts, who are normally only on campus during our teaching assignments, but it's relevant to full timers too who have committee work and other things they have to do during their days) to set up and administer special exams, or to pay for more staff at the learning center to assist with these matters. I imagine that colleagues at colleges without union representation would have more trouble.

Again, I have no problem with the ADA. My frustration isn't with them, but in how administrators respond to these things. I wonder if some colleges that were less successful at negotiating equitable deals with the administration via a union are simply doing away with lab exams, or maybe even reducing the lab component of courses.
 

Lyv

I meant to do that.
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Aug 5, 2007
Messages
4,958
Reaction score
1,934
Location
Outside Boston
Thank you so much for sharing. The ADA may not be the problem, but maybe tweaking language? Or looking at legislation...just always looking for solutions (that's what my physical challenges have done. I am always in problem-solving mode).
 

JJ Litke

People are not wearing enough hats
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Dec 8, 2013
Messages
7,993
Reaction score
4,460
Location
Austin
Website
www.jjlitke.com
I can give you an earful about how the ADA, or current interpretation thereof, has made my job harder in recent years. As a college instructor, we're now required to provide distraction-free environments with up to 2x the normal time on lab exams, because ADHD and dyslexia are considered to be disabilities. This is pretty much impossible to do during normal college hours with exams that already take hours to set up and administer in classrooms that are in use from 8 AM to 10:30 PM. There was extensive negotiation via our union about pay for instructors who might have to come in on weekends or come in at 6 AM or stay until midnight to give private lab practical exams to students whose "blue slips" say they're entitled to these accommodations.

Either you're summarizing and not fully explaining how it works, or your college is not implementing the rules correctly. Accommodations are only allowed for students who qualify, which requires official diagnostic documentation and registering through your college's accessibility services office. Your description made it sound as if the testing rules had been changed for all students, and I would really hate for anyone to read that and believe that's actually happening in colleges.

My college has a separate testing center, which some courses use for testing in general, and can be utilized for students who require accommodations. So there is no problem of anyone staying late, instructors can just have students use the testing center. I had thought test proctoring was pretty standard, but if your college isn't doing this yet, that would be the solution.

Our guidelines also hold this caveat: accommodations may not change the fundamental nature of the expectations of the field (there is exact wording that I'm probably not getting quite right). So, for my own department, extended time for projects is not an allowable accommodation, because we are a deadline-driven business.

It's also been my experience that I often have to convince students to tell me if they're supposed to have accommodations. Many have learned to hide it because they get really negative responses from instructors.

ETA: And now more posts have popped up while I wrote this, but I'm just going to leave it as is, or else the edits I make will probably be out of date after more posts go up in the meantime.
 
Last edited:

regdog

The Scavengers
Staff member
Moderator
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 27, 2008
Messages
58,075
Reaction score
21,013
Location
She/Her
The idea that there are a whole lot of people out there falsely claiming to be disabled is really fucked up. For what purpose? Do you think people are filing complaints against businesses and trying to force them to comply just for grins? I don't think that's most people's idea of a fun time.

One of the ugly realities people try hard to ignore in this is that someone could become disabled at any time. A friend of mine was in a wheelchair for years after a car accident. No amount of living a clean life or watching out for your health can stop that from happening to you. And the longer you live, the more likely you are to become disabled. My grandfather spent the last couple years of his life using a walker and wheelchair.

Actually I keep hoping this is one issue where the aging baby boomers can really do some good. They're starting to hit the age ranges where age-related disabilities will dramatically increase, and I bet they won't easily accept the attitude that, eh, you're old, stop expecting you should have a life any more.


The one that is occurring a great deal now is people claiming non-service dogs are actually service dogs, so they can bring their pets with them wherever they go. Most of the non-service dogs are disruptive, untrained and problematic.

Link