Should I write this?

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Thief

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ETA: Boy howdy this turned out to be a long post! Anyway, here goes.

ETA x2: TL;DR version in #3

I'll preface this by saying I'm a white writer. I also saw a thread that was similar to this one, but I feel my question is different enough that it warrants its own thread? I didn't want to derail the other one, anyway. I hope me posting this here is alright.

So, when I first conceived this story years ago, all the cast (two MCs, two secondary chars, one tertiary) but one character was white. As I became more socially aware over time, I realized I wanted a more diverse cast, so I started to change their races. This includes the two MCs (who are both narrators in first-person perspective). The FMC I made mixed: English on her father's side, Mexican on her mother's side. The MMC I'm still uncertain on, but he comes with some other writing issues that I'll get to in a moment.

I was reading some discourse related to #ownvoices, the question being whether or not white writers should write PoC characters at all, even when they "get it right" regarding representation. A writer of color in the comments said that while a white writer can have an ethnically diverse supporting cast, they shouldn't write nonwhite main characters, full stop. The commenter said it takes away opportunities from writers of color; if a white person writes about the perspective of a PoC (which they're bound to lose some nuances of), they're talking over a PoC writing a PoC and taking away that person's seat at the publishing table.

Obviously that's not something I want to do. So should I just...make my FMC white again? Part of that feels a little icky, as though I'd be whitewashing her, in a sense. But since she was white to begin with, maybe that doesn't count? I don't know...

And then there's the issue with the MMC. He's part-human, part-fantasy race. I realized while writing him that some of the struggles he faces (namely with regard to identity/culture) could be seen to parallel struggles faced by mixed-race people irl. It's not as though I directly point that out in the narrative or call attention to it, but you certainly could view it through that lens, and I'm sure many potential readers would. As such, I felt making him white would ring rather...hollow. Like he would experience real-world seeming issues that real PoC face, but with the benefit of being white.

One of my friends suggested I just describe the MCs in vague terms and leave the readers to headcanon their races, but I don't feel that's right, either. It seems like 9 times out of 10, the readers are just going to view them as white anyway, because we have this very strong "white as default" mentality in our culture. Like, a character is white until proven otherwise. Which...doesn't help representation very much (I know Writing With Color advises very strongly against this, for that reason).

It should be noted at this point that my story very much isn't about race--it's about kids with superpowers fighting a destructive magic cult. If I made my MCs nonwhite, their nonwhiteness would just happen to be aspects of their characters. It would be something that's part of their lives and informs their character/decisions, but is ultimately not what the story is "about." So, because the story isn't message fiction/an issue piece, would I still be talking over PoC if I made them PoC?

I really do think diversity is important in books, and I don't want to add to the massive pile of white MCs in YA (I forgot to mention it, but that's the market I'm writing for) because...well, don't we have enough of those already? Also, the idea of only having ethnic diversity in the supporting cast and not in the MCs rubs me the wrong way. It seems like...idk, whenever I see it in a book, it comes off to me like the writer is trying to have their diversity cake and eat it too. But maybe I'm just cynical. Or outright incorrect.

Anyway, back to the point. If writers of color think I shouldn't be writing MCs of color at all, and that doing so is harmful to them, I'll stop (even though, admittedly, the idea of writing nothing but white MCs forever just doesn't...feel right to me. Is that harmful, too, or no?). The last thing I want to do is cause any harm.
 
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Thief

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Okay :/

Uh...here's the TL;DR version, I guess:

I'm white

I read from a writer of color that white writers should never write MCs of color, because it detracts from PoC writing PoC and steals their spot at the publishing table (which is not something I want to do)

My MCs are PoC, but they used to be white (along with the rest of my cast) before I changed them because I wanted better representation

I'm wondering if I should make them white again because I don't want to talk over PoC, but the idea of making them white again feels kinda wrong

It'd be weird and possibly problematic if MMC were white because he's partly a fantasy race, and his issues with identity could be seen as paralleling real-world issues with identity faced by mixed-race individuals, so having him be white could ring hollow

My story isn't even about race as an issue or the struggles that marginalized people face (basically, it's not message fiction or an issue piece), it's a dumb adventure about teens with superpowers fighting a magic cult, so maybe I wouldn't even be talking over PoC anyway because that's not the story I'm trying to tell?

I don't want to add to the massive pile of white MCs in YA because media is filled with white people already

I don't like it when only the secondary/background characters are ethnically diverse, because it feels like a cheap way to get your "diversity points" while still writing primarily about white people

If writers of color think I should stop writing nonwhite MCs and only write white MCs from now on, I'll stop, because I don't want to harm anyone (even though the idea of only writing about white people feels harmful to me, too. But idk, I only have my own perspective here, and I know there are gaps in it). I just want to be as respectful as possible

Could I get some advice?
 
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tabathabell

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I'll say this. I'm white as well, so take my word for it with a grain of salt.

I haven't been told the things you have. Quite frankly, I've been told pretty much the opposite.

I was told that if I'm wanting to include diversity, or my story has room for it, don't make your MC a POC. Why? Because it's not my story to tell.

Now, it makes complete sense why I would be told that since I, as a white woman, do not have the same personal life experience as a black woman, or a Chinese woman, or a Mexican woman. I do, however, need to be mindful that the world around me isn't only white. I can get inside of my white girl MC just fine, because I have that experience, but depending on your POV of your MS, you won't be necessarily getting inside of the head of someone that you don't have any life experience to tell about, per se.

Now, that was just the response I was given for the same question. Whether or not someone else has a different opinion, I'm not sure. I'm in the same boat in a way with my own story in which I'm trying to decide if I should make one of my MC's, that is not the narrator MC, a mixed POC. So I feel you on this, but a lot of my responses on the issue is "don't overthink it". Again, you're probably going to get a lot of perspectives on the issue, so don't feel like you need to take my word for it. I'm sure others with more experience in it can say it better.
 

Thief

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The trouble is, that's not the only question I have. One of the big things I'm looking for advice on is the situation with the MMC (and his adoptive brother, who I didn't mention because dang that first post is long enough).

For a little more clarity, MMC and brother come from...not a secondary world, more like a primary-and-a-half world. It's a parallel universe that's been influenced by both human an alien universes, so there are many differences to our own world culturally and geographically, and the people there are part-human and part-alien. Both brothers have their own individual takes on what that means for them (which I can elaborate on if necessary).

There are just a lot of complicated issues going on here, and I'll fully admit I'm way out of my depth in navigating them.
 
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Snitchcat

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I read from a writer of color that white writers should never write MCs of color, because it detracts from PoC writing PoC and steals their spot at the publishing table (which is not something I want to do)

Excuse the laughter here. "Steal their spot at the publishing table"? Readers/editors/agents/publishers will gravitate to what they like and dismiss what they don't like. This is simply being human. While there is an author diversity problem in publishing, there is not much the writer can do about that simply because the publishing houses are dominated by white or non-ethnically-diverse people. Writers are on the outside. One of the solutions to that is to have more POC writers submit their work; another is to create a more diverse publishing team. In the meantime, write.

Would I like it if a white writer takes my ethnicity and writes my ethnicity's story? Hahahah! I loathe it so much that I avoid almost all such writers. OTOH, there are non-Chinese writers who get it right and whose work I enjoy. E.g., Nury Vitachi. Indian gentleman who writes about Hong Kong and Chinese people.

Detracts from POC writing? Yes and no? Write with sensitivity and respect, and you're fine, IMO. Whoever's saying you can't write POC 'cos you're not POC is being rather obtuse. That's the same as saying you can't write an alien lifeform, 'cos you aren't one. Or you can't write an animal lifeform 'cos you're not that animal. Counter example to that: Tad Williams's Tailchaser's Song. As far as I'm aware, Williams is human, not a cat.

My MCs are PoC, but they used to be white (along with the rest of my cast) before I changed them because I wanted better representation

Arbitrary change or 'cos the story needed them to be POC? If the former, keep them white. If the latter, have them be POC. It's what works for the story, not 'cos the writer is forcing the issue.

It'd be weird and possibly problematic if MMC were white because he's partly a fantasy race, and his issues with identity could be seen as paralleling real-world issues with identity faced by mixed-race individuals, so having him be white could ring hollow

So, he's part fantasy race. Make him pink or purple or blue or any other colour you want. Fantasy is key here.

it's a dumb adventure about teens with superpowers fighting a magic cult, so maybe I wouldn't even be talking over PoC anyway because that's not the story I'm trying to tell?

Superpowers vs. magic cult. I fail to see the POC issue here. It's fantasy. Everyone could be part black, splotchy purple (quite the walking bruise), and all alien with six legs, an exoskeleton, and horse ears. POC? Yup.

If writers of color think I should stop writing nonwhite MCs and only write white MCs from now on, I'll stop, because I don't want to harm anyone (even though the idea of only writing about white people feels harmful to me, too.

POC here. I may not like it when non-POCs write about POC MCs. OTOH: I'm all for "Write what you please, but do it respectfully (aka, due diligence, research, etc.)".

I just want to be as respectful as possible

You're asking questions; that's a good start to being as respectful as possible.
 
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LJD

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If writers of color think I should stop writing nonwhite MCs and only write white MCs from now on, I'll stop, because I don't want to harm anyone (even though the idea of only writing about white people feels harmful to me, too. But idk, I only have my own perspective here, and I know there are gaps in it). I just want to be as respectful as possible

For reference, I am biracial (Asian/white).

When PoC say white writers should never write MCs of colour, it is usually because:
1) They have seen a lot of poorly-done, insensitive portrayals of PoC characters by white authors in the past and are just so fed up with the whole thing.
2) White authors writing PoC characters have, unfortunately, often been more successful at getting their work published and recognized than PoC authors, though I think this is changing a little. But it IS a problem in the publishing industry.

Personally, I have no problem with white people writing PoC MCs if they are aware of these issues and do appropriate research and get sensitivity readers when needed. One thing you can do is to try to support PoC authors who may be getting the short end of the stick in the publishing world. Buy their books. Talk about them. Promote the ones you like. But IMHO, I don't think you need to avoid writing diverse characters yourself.
 

LeftyLucy

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I'm White, so my opinion isn't the important one. But I'm jumping in because I'm also currently writing PoC MCs. In a lot of ways, I wish I wasn't, because I agonize over these same kinds of questions. I walked away from this WIP for over a year because I felt like the very last thing fiction needs is another White writer telling the story of PoC. But the story wouldn't leave and it became an itch I couldn't scratch. So I researched as well and as deeply as I could, did my best to make sure the story I'm telling hasn't already been told by a PoC (it hasn't, so far as I can find), and then got back to writing.

Arbitrary change or 'cos the story needed them to be POC? If the former, keep them white. If the latter, have them be POC. It's what works for the story, not 'cos the writer is forcing the issue.

I think this is a very important and valuable question. The story has to tell its truth. From my extremely limited and amateur experience (so take this for what it's worth), when writing PoC MCs, it's critical that their view of the world - as shaped by their experiences living as their race - is a driving factor in the story. It's like Barbie dolls, right? For years, Mattel made Black Barbies and Asian Barbies just by mixing a different color rubber and pouring it into the same Barbie molds. So you basically had White Barbie with tan skin or dark brown skin, but it was still White Barbie, and it was ridiculous. White kids (and their parents) didn't know it was ridiculous, but PoC did. The risk in being a White writer creating PoC MCs is that you could inadvertently build White experience and White world view, and then just paint it a different shade, and it won't work and may even be offensive. Find the ways in which a change to your characters' races changes the dynamic and flow and voice of your story. Then consider whether it's the right way to go.

And good luck!
 

Thief

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Thanks for all the input, everyone, I really appreciate it! I just have one more concern.

So, he's part fantasy race. Make him pink or purple or blue or any other colour you want. Fantasy is key here.

The problem is that it's necessary for the narrative that he appear mostly human (he hides his nonhuman aspects with clothing). Would it help if I made him from a nation/culture that doesn't exist in our world? Or would that raise its own issues?
 

Ari Meermans

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Thanks for all the input, everyone, I really appreciate it! I just have one more concern.



The problem is that it's necessary for the narrative that he appear mostly human (he hides his nonhuman aspects with clothing). Would it help if I made him from a nation/culture that doesn't exist in our world? Or would that raise its own issues?

Thief, it seems to me that you have a lot to unpack wrt diversity, both in our world and in your fantasy/parallel world. It's really not so easy or fluid to "make" a character this or that. How much research have you performed so far? How much worldbuilding? This room has a great sticky that would help with your questions and conundrums: Resources/Further Reading.

As an added note: It would be super nifty if anyone who has additional recommended resource links would post them there.
 

Thief

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Thief, it seems to me that you have a lot to unpack wrt diversity, both in our world and in your fantasy/parallel world. It's really not so easy or fluid to "make" a character this or that. How much research have you performed so far? How much worldbuilding? This room has a great sticky that would help with your questions and conundrums: Resources/Further Reading.

As an added note: It would be super nifty if anyone who has additional recommended resource links would post them there.


I'm sorry for not responding sooner! Real life caught up to me, laptop died, whole host of issues.

I'm also sorry if I've caused any hurt through my ignorance here. I appreciate your feedback, and I'll give the thing you linked a read. As for your questions: I've tried to do research regarding incorporating diversity (I follow the blog Writing With Color, for instance), but I definitely need to do more. Regarding worldbuilding, I have the worlds the characters go through in the present fleshed out, but not so much the worlds in their backstories. That's what I was trying to pin down.
 

Ari Meermans

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I'm sorry for not responding sooner! Real life caught up to me, laptop died, whole host of issues.

I'm also sorry if I've caused any hurt through my ignorance here. I appreciate your feedback, and I'll give the thing you linked a read. As for your questions: I've tried to do research regarding incorporating diversity (I follow the blog Writing With Color, for instance), but I definitely need to do more. Regarding worldbuilding, I have the worlds the characters go through in the present fleshed out, but not so much the worlds in their backstories. That's what I was trying to pin down.

I'm pretty sure you haven't caused any hurt; you've asked valid, respectful questions and that's what this room is for.

There are just a lot of complicated issues going on here, and I'll fully admit I'm way out of my depth in navigating them.

^ That's what I meant by having a lot to unpack. You've set yourself quite the task in terms of complexity. That's not to say that it can't be done, or be done by you; it can. Asking yourself some questions regarding how those worlds came to be in terms of their cultures and politics through their histories will help you pin down the current state of those worlds in the same terms. That will aid both you and your character in navigating those worlds. You could start by asking how that culture might come to be. So, yes, you would need some idea of the worlds' backstories in order to portray the current inhabitants' views and culture(s).
 

Norman Mjadwesch

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Conn Iggulden wrote a brilliant HF series about Genghis Khan and his conquest of Mongolia and China. The author is not of either ethnicity, but he did spend a significant amount of time in that region to do his research for his work and the final product was a brilliantly written and highly entertaining and educational masterpiece. Though the entire cast were POC, race was not a defining theme in any part of the narrative (so far as I can recall). If another writer with lesser skill than Iggulden had attempted to do this story, I don’t think it would have been anywhere near as engaging, no matter what the alternative author’s heritage may have been.

I suppose that in cases where race is not an issue, it probably doesn’t matter what racial background a writer has, though in cases where sensitive issues are integral to the story this would certainly be a factor to take into consideration.
 

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My opinion is that you should write the characters as you feel they need to be. Don't just make them diverse for the sake of diversity, but if you feel, deep down, that one of your MCs is a different race at their core, then write them that way. As long as you do some good research on the culture, be respectful, and maybe try to get some beta-readers from that culture, it will probably work out well.

Will there be people that get angry that you wrote the character that way when you're not a PoC? Probably. But there will be others that appreciate it, too. And even more that probably won't care what race your characters are as long as the story itself is good. At the end of the day, telling a good story is what matters most.
 

cool pop

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I can't speak for other POC authors but I have no issues with white authors writing POC characters as long as you write us as people and realize we're not just a race or color. Just remember we're human like everyone and you should be okay. Yes, I have seen some POC authors who don't want whites writing POC characters and I understand why. They feel like this due to the racist publishing industry. See, some white people tend to not want to read POC characters unless white people write them. Publishers tend to not want books with POC characters unless white authors have written them. Because white people are the majority and considered the mainstream, this is the audience pubs are more concerned with pleasing. So this is one reason we hear the tired lie that POC books written by POC authors don't sell, which, uh, is not true. It's just that you can't IGNORE our audience and only promote to white readers and be surprised if the books don't become huge sellers. People find white writers writing POC more acceptable than POC authors doing it. So to POC writers this is a big slap in the face and the main cause of some POC authors not wanting whites writing these characters. We often don't get credit for writing our own characters but in fact, shunned.

I realize, that's not the fault of white authors, it's the racism in the industry. It's been there forever and will probably stay. But, I am all for diversity no matter who writes it but I do wish us POC authors got as much recognition when we write POC characters as white authors do. For example, there have been many black authors who wrote books like The Help (and many were WAY better I might add) before The Help was invented yet wasn't giving mainstream attention or even publishing contracts. I'v even had black authors friends who were rejected for writing POC books yet that same company would turn around and offer deals to whites for the same types of books.

People can write about what they want is how I feel. I write interracial stories and many of my characters are white. I don't want people saying I can't write whites because I am not so I wouldn't say that to a white author about writing POC characters.

So, I don't think you should take it personally when some POC authors say whites should not write these characters. Just put yourself in our shoes for a bit and then you can kind of understand why they feel this way. White authors do get credit and contracts for some of the same types of books black authors write everyday yet when we write them it's seen as a negative because we're POC.

It's effed up but that's the way it is. :(
 
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