Revise & Resubmit - Meet Me Halfway?

Vic20

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I have a question following a Revise & Resubmit from a dream agent.

The agent sent back my MS saying they were concerned about the point of view being outside my main love story. They also asked that I shave the 115k-word length down by 25k words.

I want this agent badly, but I can't change my POV, since the love story isn't actually the most important theme. What I have managed to do is to cut out a slew of passages that deal with lesser themes, in an effort to 'dial up' the love story's impact. In doing all of this, I've managed to lop of 15k words. I can try to keep cutting, but I'm worried that I'm no longer cutting fat.

I need to know if the agent will accept that I've edited with their criticisms in mind, but that I haven't gone 'all the way' for them. Will they be willing to evaluate my new, improved MS, even though it doesn't quite meet their requests? And is it worth writing a detailed cover letter explaining the ins and outs of my thinking?
 

Maryn

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I cannot guess what the agent will or won't take, but it sounds to me like the POV change was vital to him or her. Your cuts have dialed up the love story, but the POV is still outside it, which was a problem.

I bet it will still be a problem.

Maryn, sorry to disappoint--here, have a cookie
 

Anna Iguana

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I can't tell from your question whether the agent directly asked you to change the POV. If the agent asked that, I personally wouldn't resubmit without the requested POV.

In any event, I would not send a detailed explanation of why you did/did not make changes. Writing should stand on its own.

You should want an agent who loves your manuscript, so s/he can pitch it to editors with passion. Best wishes.
 

Sage

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Sometimes an R&R is just not one you're going to want to do. Sometimes it's an agent saying, "I would have loved it if it were in that POV and more romance-oriented, so if you ever happen to make that change, I'll take another look at it." They don't necessarily expect you to make that change, but they're putting the suggestion out there in case you are willing to make the change.

In some cases, I think you can meet an agent halfway by looking at the underlying problem they're seeing and addressing it in some other way, particularly if they give you less specific revision solutions or if you feel comfortable discussing options with her. The nice thing about specifics, otoh, is that there's less room to guess at what she means. (I've actually done the opposite of what an agent wanted because her R&R request was so vague.)

If she gives you multiple things she'd like to see and you're not doing any of them, that's not going to feel like "meeting halfway" to her.

I bet you could get it under 95K without cutting anything vital.
 
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Vic20

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Wow, Maryn, Anna Iguana, Sage, thank you for the prompt and thoughtful replies.

The agent opened her reply with a paragraph about four things she 'loved' about the MS. Her 'worry' about the POV was that it weakened the plot and its emotional impact. I'm hoping that the fat-cutting alone might counteract that. Reading all of your feedback, I think I'm inclined to cut another 5k or more (thanks for the nudge, Sage), and then cross my fingers.

Again, thank you all for your thoughts!
 

Putputt

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Do you have beta readers? You could ask them for input. I've been given advice by agents before which I had trouble addressing (e.g. agent would point out a problem which I agreed with, but I was at a loss as to how to resolve the issue) and so far, my beta readers have been excellent at giving me suggestions which I would otherwise never have thought of.
 

Vic20

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Thanks, Putputt. Yes, I have beta readers, and they've largely agreed with my plan of action. I was just unsure how that strategy would play from the agent's point of view.
 

NealM

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In some cases, I think you can meet an agent halfway by looking at the underlying problem they're seeing and addressing it in some other way, particularly if they give you less specific revision solutions or if you feel comfortable discussing options with her. The nice thing about specifics, otoh, is that there's less room to guess at what she means. (I've actually done the opposite of what an agent wanted because her R&R request was so vague.)

I come more from a screenwriting background, but I find this to be so true. A suggestion from an agent (or producer in my case) is rarely the correct answer. They are pointing out that something isn't working, but their suggestion may not be the only (or even a viable) way to fix it. Try to find the root of what isn't working for them and see if you can find a way to address it that works for you.
 

Vic20

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Thanks, NealM. I think that's the tack I'm taking.
 

LaneHeymont

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I have a question following a Revise & Resubmit from a dream agent.

The agent sent back my MS saying they were concerned about the point of view being outside my main love story. They also asked that I shave the 115k-word length down by 25k words.

I want this agent badly, but I can't change my POV, since the love story isn't actually the most important theme. What I have managed to do is to cut out a slew of passages that deal with lesser themes, in an effort to 'dial up' the love story's impact. In doing all of this, I've managed to lop of 15k words. I can try to keep cutting, but I'm worried that I'm no longer cutting fat.

I need to know if the agent will accept that I've edited with their criticisms in mind, but that I haven't gone 'all the way' for them. Will they be willing to evaluate my new, improved MS, even though it doesn't quite meet their requests? And is it worth writing a detailed cover letter explaining the ins and outs of my thinking?

This agent asked for a 25k cut for a reason. It sounds like it may be a genre/word count issue. You may want to ping the agent for more clarification.
 

Vic20

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Thanks for that pointer, LaneHeymont. Does 'pinging' mean emailing a quick question? As in, "Do you want it down to 90k to conform with genre-length conventions, or to correct a pacing issue in this story?"

To update, I've cut a further 3k, and am conferring with beta readers. I'm trying to cut deeper, but it gets tougher with every pass.

Again to LaneHeymont, is it acceptable to an agent who requested a 25k cut to submit a roughly 18k cut with a (short) cover note saying, basically, "This is where I stand, and as your client, I would welcome further dialog with you, aimed at making this MS the best it can be, without compromising my original vision"?
 

Old Hack

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If an agent asks you to cut 25k and you cut 18k, then send them a wordy email which doesn't explain why you couldn't cut further, then I don't think that agent would be pleased.
 

Vic20

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Got it. Fair enough. Thanks, Old Hack.
 

LaneHeymont

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If an agent asks you to cut 25k and you cut 18k, then send them a wordy email which doesn't explain why you couldn't cut further, then I don't think that agent would be pleased.

Sorry for the late response, Vic20. Exactly what Old Hack said. I would have asked for a 25k cut for a reason. Not a 18k cut with an explanation. If you can't give me what I asked for it means something.
 

Vic20

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Okay, got it. Thanks for seconding Old Hack. I take you both very seriously. Back to work!
 

Vic20

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Sorry to be neurotic about this, but I'm past the 21k mark, and now every pass takes longer and has less to show for it. Would this be considered "close enough" to 25k if the stated reason is to pick up the pacing?
 
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Old Hack

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Is 21k the same as 25k? Nope? Then it's probably not close enough.

If you're getting bogged down in the work you need to set it aside for a few weeks, and let your mind refresh.
 

Vic20

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Good advice. Thanks as always. I'll hit that 25k yet!
 

Aggy B.

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Give it a rest and see if anything else shakes loose. At the same time, my agent was okay with me cutting a MS from almost 140k down to 135k-ish, when the resolution was tighter and more impactful, even though he'd originally told me he'd prefer 120k. (Now, he's already my agent, not a potential agent so that may play a role.) But, sometimes, better story will negate wordcount.

And, if you haven't already done a pass to cut out passive construction, do that too. (I.E. Jack was running VS Jack ran) But a few weeks rest should allow you to find those spots that maybe you don't need. And if you don't find any... assuming you have done everything else to improve the story, I would send it back.

Not just because 21k is close enough, but you have to stick with what you see the book as. (This is a fine line between Golden Word Syndrome and just knowing your book, I know. But if your gut says you can't cut anything else now, then don't. [Caveat: sometimes you need more time to think about something to figure out how to change something. I took almost a year to realize that two different, shorter novels could probably use plot-specific complications to bring them closer to normal word counts.]) However, there is a certain point at which an agent either understands what you want from a book or doesn't. If they do, they may be able to nudge you toward further revisions if the word count is really that important to them. If they don't... finding someone who reads your work with a similar love to yourself is hard, but totally worth it.
 

Vic20

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Thank you all for this. I'll update you on my progress. Onward!
 

Vic20

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Hi, JeanGenie! Well, in the end, the agent said that the revisions didn't quite bring it in line with what she needed to move forward with it. She did ask me to submit to them with any future work, which I promised to do (I have another MS completed, which I'm behind on revising).

But now I have a new dilemma: a publisher who had seen the original draft of the first MS has now come back to me expressing real interest in giving me a deal. This publisher has floated the idea of a multi-book contract. I still don't have an agent, and I'm wondering if, all these months later, it would be wise to contact the agent again, and ask her if she'd like to reconsider signing me up and talking to the publisher on my behalf. Would the agent want to work on a deal for a book she wasn't totally enamored with to begin with? Would she perhaps take the opportunity, considering that she liked my writing style, and was interested in seeing more work from me?

Any thoughts, anybody?
 
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JeanGenie

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If I were an agent, I would prefer to be asked than not:) just include it in the subject - “offer from publisher on former R&R” or something, and state something about understanding if they are still not interested, but since they have invested time in the project, you though you should ask them first.

And congratulations on the interest!
 

Aggy B.

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If anyone else is looking at the MS you need to contact them as well. Plus you have nothing to lose by contacting other agents with your query and the header "CONTRACT OFFER RECEIVED FOR 'My Awesome Novel'". Include a little paragraph about what has been discussed with the publisher, plus your normal query and sample pages. You might not get a response but it never hurts to try.