The Cantina Staring Back At You From The Abyss

On group betas: in my experience, any group project requires well-matched team members and clearly defined goals, or it's not going to work.

Monday morning, a little foggy again, and the furnace is kicking on a little more often each night. Glad I finally got a working room heater, at least. (The last one's thermostat was shot somehow. The new one actually maintains a temperature, though it has a weird oscillation feature that operates independently of the heater/fan function. Apparently, someone thought consumers would want the option for a heater to oscillate even when it's turned off. The heck?)

The recycling trip for today has been postponed (again) to Tuesday, due to various appointments. But I'll probably be getting the car loaded later when things have warmed up a bit; there's talk of showers tonight or tomorrow, and I'd rather not haul wet metal in my car.

Off I go. Sitework is first up on the schedule, then later I need to nail down enough of my ornament ideas to at least cut my styrofoam bases to size. (Will probably wait until the weekend to crack open the Apoxie for the base coat. May need to acquire some sculpting tools first; they have a way of wandering off.)

Hi all. Suppose a girl hasn't posted on AW in 6 months. What has she missed?

Shadowflame said:

Group betas
I usually don't like group betas unless
1- the group is authors who have been around the block a few times
2- a variety of skill levels (writing or review or editing)
3- people who are NOT friends of the author
4- rules are established before hand

Experienced authors who have had their works edited, revised, and published by legit publications gain a lot of experience on what works and what doesn't. They can point out the things like you did and be right on story structure, grammar issues, and such things most of the time. They also know how to express opinions in a way that leads the authors to seeing although a portion is well written, it might also have to be cut.

A variety of skill levels gives an author a chance to see a range of comments from different perspectives. A newer author might only see typos. A beta who has editing experience will see other things. Not to say you shouldn't use regular readers, but at least a few should have publishing experience when you do a group beta.

I do use a group of friends for betas. HOWEVER, they are all established, well-read, and critical readers. They may be my friends, but they also are not afraid to hurt my feelings by pointing out that I've wandered from the plot or have turned my character inside out. If your group is all hand-holding and encouraging, you aren't going to grow as a writer.

Rules are essential in a group beta. Sometimes it's more of a guideline such as "I need you to focus on the characters, do they seem realistic?" or "I'm horrible with POV, watch for that." This gives the group some key elements to look for and a good place to start with some criticism. Some people just don't think they can criticize a work without being mean. Critique isn't mean. It's a way to improve.

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To be clear, we're talking about multiple people critting the same google doc, right? So, Wendy thinks this is an info dump, but Brandon replies to her comment, disagreeing, and wants more insight like it, and Molly agrees with him, but thinks it should be italicized and John doesn't understand why that would be italicized but after she explains, he sees her point and then Brenda agrees with Brandon but thinks it's just the right amount of info and no more. All this over one paragraph. You get going a bit like this and suddenly, the doc is a huge hot mess!

Another thing I noticed: people seemed reluctant to dig in until I started. I didn't get to the beta until mid week, and there was almost no comments on the doc. That one chapter I did now has 80% more crits than any other chapter in the whole thing, and they all came after me. Like they were afraid (like I was) to mar the reading experience for the rest, but once that's done, they roll with it and expound on everything I said, plus more of their own.

After an anxiety attack that nearly made me pass out at the courthouse, the Order of Protection was passed for another four-ish weeks. So, that's good - gives me more time to look for work and see about getting moved out. But now I'm exhausted.

Time for dinner, i think.

Aggy, taking it easy tonight

Mary Love, that sounds like a right clusterf***. I'd be horrified UNLESS they were all experienced authors/editors. However, it looks like that is not the case. Even in my author group, I have to ignore 40% of the comments I get. Some are just stylistic differences, others are people who didn't pay attention or weren't there for earlier installments of the story, and more are just idiots Not many, to be fair. We've got a decent group.

Today's interview with the IT group went great! It's a right mess over there, and they need people stat...

kuwisdelu said:

Hi all. Suppose a girl hasn't posted on AW in 6 months. What has she missed?

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welcome back!

Aggy B. said:

After an anxiety attack that nearly made me pass out at the courthouse, the Order of Protection was passed for another four-ish weeks. So, that's good - gives me more time to look for work and see about getting moved out. But now I'm exhausted.

Time for dinner, i think.

Aggy, taking it easy tonight

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sending you strength and support

To me, group betas are basically workshop. That they would have the manuscript as a google doc seems like a recipe for disaster. Most of this stuff is done best in person. I mean, it's something that needs to be read beforehand, then gone through closely for line editing and copyediting purposes/suggestions before the letters are drafted and then the meeting happens and the section of the work that's being reviewed is discussed. The author has to make sure they have questions to help target the feedback, and if the style of the workshop goes that way, the attendees need to have some neutral questions about it before opinions are gotten into. This is all stuff that I have been doing in my classes, and structure is key with it.

Woof, @Mary. If I were doing a group beta scenario, I'd only do it in person with a group like GD's. Like others have said, Google docs just screams "Danger, Will Robinson!" Especially if they don't understand the concept of constructive criticism... *whispers "run away!"*

In other news, I am happily 2K words into Pirates Book 2 (having found several perfect songs that had my fingers zooming on the keys), I have a solid outline that I can babble on about for 3 hours (apparently), and I'm slowly working my way through the more significant revisions in Book 1. I also ended up with a random plot bunny for a rom-com involving roller derby girls, comic book geeks, and a second chance at love. >.< Kicking that one into the closet for 'later'. Ye old brain is definitely on fire right now.


I also have a fun little old zoom zoom car, courtesy of my parents this weekend. It's not a Buick, so ha! It will tide me over at least through the winter, until I can figure out what I really do want to get that is reasonable and within my parameters and budget. Now if Mr. Winks would just go junk the defunct Buick, aka Toaster, so I can take it off our insurance...grumble grumble grumble.

Oh, and P.S., French Canada was glorious, time with tiana was amazing, and seriously why are there so many hundreds of miles between us? Wine and plotting is infinitely more satisfying in person!

Hugs, chocolate and best wishes to all in need of those.

I tackled the backroom yesterday. There was just this narrow corridor left to the washing machine. I Scraped my hand when holding a full basket of laundry one time too many so cleaning time it is.

Felt like an archaeological digs at times. As I peeled back layers of junk, I kept finding things nicely dated that got older the further I dug into the junk pile. Some of the stuff I found had been there untouched for 25 years, that obviously coincided with the exact time that part of the house got renovated. I think we can safely rule out the usefulness of that stuff out by now. And it'll be an archaeological dig without the catalogging of finds or sending it off to museums because there are two car loads now ready for the recycling park. Now I only need to smile nicely to dad and bribe him with freach cocoa so he is willing to drive me and those carloads there. So ready to ditch this junk.

Today, the other side of the backroom!

If I'm not back by the end of the weekend... send a search team with a digger, please?

@Mary that group beta sounds confusing at best, anxiety inducing at worst. I personally would much rather see each individual's opinion without the influence of the others.


Morning, Cantina. Breakfast has been eaten. Tea has been consumed. Speaking of tea, the place where I usually get my Hontest Tea "Peach Oo-la-long" did not have it when last I went to buy some. Literally a big ol' empty space where it usually is. (I'm sure they had other brands of oolong tea, but seeing how I barely know anything about tea other than it's supposed to be good for you and makes me feel refreshed in the morning, I prefer to stick to the brand I know, y'know? And I am NOT going to attempt brewing the stuff myself, as I hear that oolong tea done wrong "smells like death and tastes worse" to quote one internet post I saw.) I was completely out of tea, though, so I had to get SOMETHING. That resulted in me investigating three other tea types and flavors that I've never tried before, including green tea with a touch of honey, white tea with a touch of mango, and a berry flavored herbal tea.

Thus far I've tasted the first two and learned: green tea with a little honey is no more palatable by itself than the peach oolong, so I still had to add orange juice. (probably would have added OJ anyway as the extra liquid helps me get re-hydrated in the morning, but wanted to taste it by itself first so as not to have a horrible clash of flavors after it was too late.) I tasted the white tea with mango yesterday and it actually wasn't bad by itself and could probably be consumed without OJ if I decided to do so, but OJ was still added and they work well together. Tomorrow I'll try the berry flavored herbal tea which will absolutely have to be palatable without OJ because I don't see myself liking the berry and orange flavors together.

Well, I'm still chipping away at the Etsy improvements, but at last count I have fewer listings left than the number of listings I've already done, so it's on the downhill slide, now. Man, I REALLY hope all this effort is worth it. Better get back to it.

Tuesday morning, and doing the scrap metal run in about an hourish. No real plans aside from that, because I have no idea how many "on the way home" places I'll have to stop.

Eh, well...

On the plus side, for over a week I've been consistently writing Something (about a page worth of ramblings based on randomly-drawn card prompts; I have a collection of Tarot and oracle decks, plus an oddball "Insight Story" deck with just simple ideas - River, Egg, Love - that works okay for story prompts.) Hooray for reforming habits!

Off I wander.

And... I got another call for another interview. Boy, when it rains, it pours! But this is a good thing. More interviews (hopefully) means more offers, which means greater ability to actually make a choice based on what's best for me. SO many times in the past (in fact, I can't remember a time when it was otherwise) I had exactly one choice for a new job, one offer. When I looked for a job, it was usually a desperation situation - either I'd been laid off or in a horrible situation and needed out. This is the first time, I think, where I'd have the luxury of more than one option. I've got one firm offer (though that requires relocation to NC), three interviews with local jobs done, two more coming up. Of those six options, four are within the company I work for now. The advantage to that is keeping my seniority, my benefits (I vest in February for my 401K and other benefits) and it IS a great company. However, if I go outside of the company, I qualify for four months' severance with the current company, so I'd essentially be double-paid for four months. Which ain't bad at all!

It sucks waiting for all the pieces to come together, though...

The interview I have on Thursday is with a local plant... but the main company is headquartered in Dublin. I've been aching to live in Ireland pretty much all of my life, and that is one relocation I'd actively work towards.

greendragon - Hooray for opportunities! Fingers crossed for you...

Tuesday afternoon, and the scrap metal place was suspiciously easy to find (especially after that hidden styrofoam place.) Got some shopping in on the way home, so I shouldn't have to hit a store after work tomorrow. And I'm about to do my daily exercise. Oh, the thrills...

@Mary I'm agreeing with GD. ClusterF*ck.

I do sometimes open a googledoc for open critique of a short story, but I only offer the link to those who are experienced authors or editors that I trust. To do this with a longer manuscript is just asking for all sorts of chaos.
I truthfully would not worry about the other critiques. Just do what you feel you need to then walk away.

Still having issues with our ISP. Yesterday the internet was down 7 hours while they worked on things. It's still not fixed. (we track pings so there's loads of time outs, high pings, and dropped packages) They are still working on it so maybe it will be fixed sometime soon *crosses fingers but doesn't expect much* I did find out that our town is mostly 30 year old equipment which is why we have so many issues. Replacing isn't "cost effective" according to corporate. -_-

Back to catching up on freelance work.

*runs through thread clutching preciousss book and muttering something along the lines of "Rowan better not die."*

Shadowflame - Seems to be internet Issues going around. (The lady at work who was switching to CenturyLink... is back with Hexfinity. One month, and after numerous games of phone tag and visitors from contractors and "I'll talk to my manager" visits they still couldn't get internet going. She got the strong impression from the last contractor that this is typical of their service.)

tiddlywinks - Hope your book lives up to your expectations!

Wednesday afternoon, and it has been, indeed, a day. Sun rose and moved across the sky from east to west and everything. Ballots voted and mailed. Work existed. And I've been informed that someone else is in charge of dinner tonight, so if they don't bother I'm just nuking my own meal. Sick of playing the game. (They've been promising - then suddenly deciding they meant "tomorrow" - for three, four days now, forcing me to scramble for a last-minute option because the sibling pitches a fit if she isn't fed.)

Meh. Should try to do some site work, though I've been kinda tired all day. Not coming-down-with-something tired (I hope), just I-slept-cruddy-and-maybe-ought-to-take-a-nap tired.

Ughhhhhh. Today had sucked. Eating comfort food tonight.

*fist bump to Aggy on comfort food*
*mutters to brightdreamer about darn long book...still reading...*
*also muttering about Mr. Winks sneaking up to cabin without having taken the toaster aka old car to junkyard...grrrrrrrrr*

Giant to Aggy.



Morning, Cantina. Yeeeerrrrg, I'm so sleepy this morning and I ran out of tea so no caffeine for me. On top of that I had to take a decongestant first thing and I'm also having crankies due to the time of month. Not a happy morning, but there's still stuff to do and breakfast is helping a little bit. I *think* I'll get the last of my Etsy improvements done today. Finally. Gotta go get to it.


ETA: There was just a commercial on TV for some weight loss pill that was so weird I had to share... It features this gorgeous blonde super model standing on a scale. She's in front of a white background and there is an inexplicable breeze blowing her hair back as she balances the scale and then celebrates her weight loss. I mean, what, is Dwarven King Thorin's #majestic breeze following other people around now???

Meh. Thursday morning, and still tired. Tried to take a nap yesterday afternoon - and was almost immediately bothered by family about how to operate the stove. Repeatedly. Until I gave up. Tried to get to bed early - and both the phone and the sibling interrupted me until my normal sleep time. Then I kept waking up for no earthly reason. So I'm not much better off this morning than I was yesterday. Makes me wish I lacked a work ethic, to just call out, curl up, and go back to sleep, but even if I did I guarantee someone would bug me or my brain wouldn't shut off.

*waves in the rough direction of other people while trudging off to get ready for work*

EFB I hear you on the ridiculous weight loss commercials. If there's any breeze in the bathroom, it's likely due to my husband's gastric distress!!!!

Panel interview went well this morning. 3 on 1 for the first hour, another set of 3 on 1 for the second hour, then 1 on 1 with the hiring manager (who is likely 20 years younger than me!). Intriguing position.

greendragon - Sounds encouraging, at least...

Thursday afternoon, and nuke-your-own-dinner night has already been called (not by me, though I probably would've anyway). Still feeling a bit off in the energy department. A few other people at work said they weren't feeling quite right - considering that we had two callouts today, makes me wonder if it is the edge of a bug after all. Dang it. Better be gone by the 9th... that's when they're making us do that stupid sort-off with NYC again. Possibly with media coverage, again. Because there's nothing else going on in a nation that's coming apart at the freakin' seams than watching people put books on a belt...

Away I slump. Will scrounge some manner of food, and try to get some site work done, then will attempt crawling into bed early, fully expecting to be thwarted again.

Brightdreamer said:

Still feeling a bit off in the energy department. A few other people at work said they weren't feeling quite right

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Full moon? I don't mean to be a conspiracy theorist but I am tired too. And this time of year it's so big.

Three more interview requests yesterday. I feel like it's raining gold!

Also, in last night's author group, I got two delightful comments on my chapter. "Okay, you are on a whole 'nother playing field. Wow." and "I find it flawless." The latter is from a strictly structural poet, one that writes epic poems in perfect rhyme and meter.

The squees are strong While I love actual critique items (better word suggestions, comments on plot holes or mischaracterizations), as they are constructive, comments like these make me remember the joy of being an author, especially from other authors, who I know also have talent.