Fiction Editor Recommendations Please

KittenEV

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Hi, guys. I've been thinking recently about maybe self-publishing. ((still on the fence about it)) If I do decide to pursue it, can anyone recommend some fiction editors out there who are good, but aren't wildly expensive? I'm a little on the poor side currently.
 

samis

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Thanks for sharing the link. I am also looking for help.
 

Old Hack

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Bear in mind that it's a very good idea to revise the socks off your work before sending it to an editor, as then the editor is free to look at the bigger problems in the ms rather than improving things you could have sorted out on your own.

Note that if you're going to trade publish you don't need to pay for an editor at any point. Revise it to the best of your ability and that will be enough.
 
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Note that if you're going to trade publish you don't need to pay for an editor at any point. Revise it to the best of your ability and that will be enough.

If you already have a publishing contract, this is true. If you don't, you'll want to make sure your submission is as publishable as possible. Agents and acquisition editors no longer have the time to work with manuscripts that have more than superficial problems.
 

cornflake

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If you already have a publishing contract, this is true. If you don't, you'll want to make sure your submission is as publishable as possible. Agents and acquisition editors no longer have the time to work with manuscripts that have more than superficial problems.

If you can't get your ms. to a point that it's ready to send to agents by yourself (with the help of beta readers, etc.), paying an editor to whip it into shape is not going to do you any favours. If the ms you send out isn't representative of your own ability, it's going to cause nothing but problems.
 

Old Hack

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If you already have a publishing contract, this is true. If you don't, you'll want to make sure your submission is as publishable as possible. Agents and acquisition editors no longer have the time to work with manuscripts that have more than superficial problems.

Of course it's true that you'll want to make your ms "as publishable as possible" prior to submission. But it's not true that you will need to pay to have your work edited prior to submission, nor is it true that agents and editors don't have time to work on anything more than superficial problems.

My agent has worked with me to edit my books. Several of my agent-friends do the same for their clients. And all of the editors I know work hard on the books they sign to make them as good as they can be.

I've checked out your website and notice that your editing experience was gained "[FONT=&quot]freelancing for ad agencies", so perhaps this is true of the people you know within advertising, but it's not true of the good trade publishing professionals I know. [/FONT]

If you can't get your ms. to a point that it's ready to send to agents by yourself (with the help of beta readers, etc.), paying an editor to whip it into shape is not going to do you any favours. If the ms you send out isn't representative of your own ability, it's going to cause nothing but problems.

Indeed. When I was last agent-hunting I was asked by all the offering agents (and a couple of others) if I'd had any help with my ms. They were all pleased to hear I'd gone no further than working with beta readers (one of whom I found at AW, and who was wonderful. She knows who she is and I am still grateful to her).
 
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If you can't get your ms. to a point that it's ready to send to agents by yourself (with the help of beta readers, etc.), paying an editor to whip it into shape is not going to do you any favours. If the ms you send out isn't representative of your own ability, it's going to cause nothing but problems.
I don't "whip manuscripts into shape." I work with fiction authors to help them tell their stories more professionally. You claim to edit for money, and your website seems oriented to authors rather than publishers. Exactly what are your editing clients paying for?
 
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Of course it's true that you'll want to make your ms "as publishable as possible" prior to submission.

Well, we agree on that, anyway. :)

But it's not true that you will need to pay to have your work edited prior to submission,

I never said anyone needed to do anything.

nor is it true that agents and editors don't have time to work on anything more than superficial problems.

Well, here's just one of many. And she's been known to recommend an author seek professional editing after declining to represent:

http://www.rachellegardner.com/how-much-editing-can-an-agent-do/
 

Old Hack

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I don't "whip manuscripts into shape." I work with fiction authors to help them tell their stories more professionally. You claim to edit for money, and your website seems oriented to authors rather than publishers. Exactly what are your editing clients paying for?

Cornflake's clients are paying for Cornflake's skill, expertise, experience and editorial talent, which are evident in many of Cornflake's posts here. Cornflake has proved to be valuable and thoughtful and good at this, and does not deserve snark. OK?

I never said anyone needed to do anything.



Well, here's just one of many. And she's been known to recommend an author seek professional editing after declining to represent:

http://www.rachellegardner.com/how-much-editing-can-an-agent-do/

We can all point to links where agents or editors have said one thing that supports our arguments, just as we can all selectively quote to prove points, and make unhelpful snarky comments which don't add anything other than unpleasantness to the threads we participate in. I don't see the value in it.

You didn't respond to my previous comment, so I'll quote it again here.

I've checked out your website and notice that your editing experience was gained "freelancing for ad agencies", so perhaps this is true of the people you know within advertising, but it's not true of the good trade publishing professionals I know.

Now. Let's stop with the snipey derails. Thanks.
 

mccardey

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I don't "whip manuscripts into shape." I work with fiction authors to help them tell their stories more professionally. You claim to edit for money, and your website seems oriented to authors rather than publishers. Exactly what are your editing clients paying for?
Do you charge, like, money for that? Asking for a friend.

- - - Updated - - -

Let's stop with the snipey derails. Thanks.
Oops. Missed that.
Soz.
 
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Cornflake's clients are paying for Cornflake's skill, expertise, experience and editorial talent, which are evident in many of Cornflake's posts here. Cornflake has proved to be valuable and thoughtful and good at this, and does not deserve snark. OK?



We can all point to links where agents or editors have said one thing that supports our arguments, just as we can all selectively quote to prove points, and make unhelpful snarky comments which don't add anything other than unpleasantness to the threads we participate in. I don't see the value in it.

You didn't respond to my previous comment, so I'll quote it again here.



Now. Let's stop with the snipey derails. Thanks.
Huh. And here I was thinking I was pretty polite, even though I grow tired of the anti-editor crusaders on this forum. Maybe you can tell me how to rephrase what was a legitimate question. How does someone who takes payment for editing justify doing so after asserting beta readers and one's own talent is all that is required when seeking to be published?

I didn't realize you were asking a question about my experience. It seemed more like sneering. Twice.
 
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If you already have a publishing contract, this is true. If you don't, you'll want to make sure your submission is as publishable as possible. Agents and acquisition editors no longer have the time to work with manuscripts that have more than superficial problems.

I've not seen any decline in the amount of time editors have to edit mss. at any of the trade or academic publishers I work with and for. Perhaps you should look at better established publishers?

If you have serious issues with writing, because you're not a native speaker of English, or you're dyslexic, etc. it might make sense for you to hire an editor for proofreading, even though you plan on subbing to trade publishers. Certainly it makes sense for those who plan to self-publish.

But if you're planning to to submit to trade publishers and you haven't any special circumstances, it's silly and possibly stupid to hire an editor. The editor won't know the preferences of the eventual publisher's editors, won't know house style, etc. and could make more work rather than less work.

Moreover, why pay someone to do the publisher's job?

Huh. And here I was thinking I was pretty polite, even though I grow tired of the anti-editor crusaders on this forum. Maybe you can tell me how to rephrase what was a legitimate question. How does someone who takes payment for editing justify doing so after asserting beta readers and one's own talent is all that is required when seeking to be published?

I didn't realize you were asking a question about my experience. It seemed more like sneering. Twice.

Bless your heart.

You're not qualified to edit. Your prose is clumsy, both here and on your site. God knows what you'd do to an innocent author's prose. The reference to "fiction authors" is enough to make someone with an ear wince, and your site copy is not helpful. Working for ad agencies as a proof reader doesn't qualify you to edit fiction; a Ph.D. in English doesn't qualify me to edit fiction, but it does qualify me to point out that you're a clumsy writer and likely to be an even worse editor.

Your own prose on your Website is over-larded with prepositional phrases. It's not promising.

I will assess the strengths and weaknesses of the major components of the manuscript and provide suggestions on how best to address problem areas.

Seriously dude; that's just ugly. If you can tolerate a sentence like that without physical pain, you're not an editor. You don't have an ear.

You're snotty to mods, you're antagonistic towards members who have earned our respect, and you're only here to hang your shingle.

I'm not willing to tolerate parasites who mangle English for money.
 

cornflake

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Huh. And here I was thinking I was pretty polite, even though I grow tired of the anti-editor crusaders on this forum. Maybe you can tell me how to rephrase what was a legitimate question. How does someone who takes payment for editing justify doing so after asserting beta readers and one's own talent is all that is required when seeking to be published?

I didn't realize you were asking a question about my experience. It seemed more like sneering. Twice.

I don't know where you're getting the idea there are "anti-editor crusaders" on a forum populated by a whole lot of editors. Old Hack is an editor (among other things). There is an 'Ask an editor' section of AW, and plenty of areas in which people get advice from members, some of whom have spent many years as professional editors, about all manner of, you know, editing.

Reread my comment please. Beta readers and one's own talent may not, indeed, be all that's required when seeking to be published. If those things together, however, cannot produce a manuscript that is competent, clean, and professional enough to pass muster with an agent, employing a professional editor to accomplish that is not likely going to do the writer any favours in the long run.
 
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If you're looking for an editor, be wary of those who conflate editing and proof reading.

They are not the same; there are rare individuals who can do both equally well, but they're rare.

If you're looking for an editor and the prose on their own site and in their posts is awkward and amateur, keep looking.

See the FAQ here: [Publishing Services] What should I ask a prospective copy editor?
 

Harlequin

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Hrm. I felt like my first editor was pretty much a crash course (in a good way) on writing; go through her revisions felt like "levelling up".

Or to borrow an MMO metaphor, it felt like being power levelled a little bit, and that maybe I'd saved myself some grinding.

I mean, good betas feel that way too, but it was very focused with the editor. I've also beta read for people before where I felt there were subtle underlying problems that were above my craft ability to fix. An editor maybe would help more.
 
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pschmehl

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My editor was wonderful at retaining my voice while suggesting changes that improved the manuscript. Since Cathleen Townsend, in reviewing my book, had this to say, I think I got my money's worth.
But this volume has superb writing in a line-edit sense—I didn’t have a single wince as I read, and that’s a rarer occurrence than I would wish.
If you're interested, PM me, and I'll tell you how to contact her. She stays busy, so I can't promise she can take you on.
 

mccardey

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Hello KittenEV,
I wish I had seen your post sooner, but I have just returned to my editing work after a summer break. I edit and proofread for an affordable rate and am flexible to work with. I'd love to help you out with your project, so feel free to message me!

Dana Lee
Welcome to AW, Dana. You might want to pop into the Newbie's page and open a thread there and tell us a bit about yourself.
 

GypsyLayla

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I don't like "one size fits all" advice.

My husband and I did our research. We decided that working with an editor was the right choice for us. "I got no help except my beta readers" didn't work for us. Why? We are both introverts with very small social circles. No contacts in the publishing world. Our beta readers are busy people and they are unrealiable when it comes to substantive writing advice. We both write well, but we didn't have the money or personality to attend endless workshops, writing courses, etc. We used our editing as a learning experience.

And we learned a lot from the experience. When an agent asks me if we had help, I'll be honest. We did. They don't want to rep us... time to move on.

You know what the most important thing I learned was? Most freelance editors are not good ones. I found two that are. It took me four months to find them. If you want the information PM me.
 
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Have you tried Reedsy? I have had pretty good experiences there. You can pick and choose which editor (and hopefully they pick you back) you think would best fit the needs of your book.
 

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Agents and acquisition editors no longer have the time to work with manuscripts that have more than superficial problems.

Good editors/agents have standards they can't afford to let slip. Good editors/agents are used to a heavy workload and deadlines. Good editors will work a script to the deepest edit needed if the script calls for it, or even to the lightest if that's needed too. An editor will do that because that's what they do. It's what they're paid for. It's what keeps them employed with publishers, or keeps authors coming back to them if they work with self-published authors.

Beside that, that bug you get to write with as an author? That drive? Editors have their own, and it's a very driven and focused. Don't ever think they're not, that they're just pressure-led and prepared to cut corners on an edit.

I've been editing fiction for about 4 years now with publishers. I'm still young in editor terms, but in all that time, I've come across three, maybe four scripts that only needed minor content edits. Sometimes they're the hardest because you worry that maybe you've missed something, that you're slipping as a trainee editor, even though you know you've sat back and gone "Perfect, just goddamn perfect." And that's where a good senior editor comes in to say: 2nd and 3rd editors say the same. Good call.

I see so many arguments that editors don't do this, they don't do that. The good ones do. Always.