Is anyone else writing a memoir?

Voodoo Chicken

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This board seems pretty dead. If you're writing a memoir, I'd love to hear from you.

On a side note, I have an opened ended question for anyone with an opinion.

Do you think there is a market for a first time author with no platform who has written a male oriented memoir?

IMO memoir is a genre that is always relevant. But the majority of the industry and market appears to be women. Look at any agency contact page and it is likely 85% women. Look at market trends and it also appears to be driven largely by women.

I guess what I'm getting at is -I'm starting to wonder if women have a difficult time identifying with a male protagonist (I'm classifying the subject of a memoir as the protagonist) and if this affects the marketability of a male oriented memoir. I know the general rule is: If the writing is really strong, nothing else matters. But it's hard to get past the query stage if your manuscript is perceived to have three strikes against it (first time author, no platform, male oriented memoir).

I know Augusten Burroughs and a few others have made a living in the male memoir market, but there are exceptions to every rule. I'm speaking in general terms here and just looking for a little insight.

Thanks.
 

Fruitbat

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Hi Voodoo Chicken. (Ha, it is hilarious to greet people by their screen names).

Anyway, I haven't written a memoir, but I've beta'd quite a few. If it matters here, it's hard to critique them because while I'm focused on trying to make the writer's book as polished as possible (in my humble opinion, anyway), it gets sticky to find a kind way to say that their account of their big issue seemed to me like when my neighbor goes on about her medical or marital issues and I have to pretend to be interested until I can escape. Or that I didn't empathize with them at all on their victorious encounter in chapter two but was actually on their opponent's side and thought they were just being kinda weird. :Shrug:

I hear that memoirs in general are a hard sell and I think the above is probably why. What's life altering to us is not always so amazing for strangers to read about secondhand.

All that said, I personally don't primarily focus on money with my writing. I much prefer to write what I'm drawn to and just self-publish and accept what I get (or don't get lol) if I don't think it has much commercial appeal. So my point is just that if it was me, I'd do it for the love rather than with the expectation of making a lot of money off it. There are always exceptions of course but if money is what you're mainly after, a memoir might not be the most likely choice for you.

A couple of other popular male authored memoirs that I can think of are A Child Called It and Angela's Ashes. I didn't know the memoir market was largely written by women, so that's interesting. But if it's what you really feel called to write, I don't think that should stop you.

Good luck!
 
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Voodoo Chicken

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I'm not writing this for money. The reason I want to publish through traditional channels is because I don't have the cash to pay upfront costs that are typically associated with POD, professional editing services, etc. If no agents, editors, etc, are interested in my manuscript (admittedly, I have only sent a handful of queries but I did get a request for a full) I will assume no one else would be interested either and self-publishing would seem moot at that point. After all, this isn't a diary. My hope is that other people will be entertained and maybe even learn from my experiences.

Of course, I realize every memoir author will insist their story is amazing and that's why they are writing it. However, I am very wary of indulging in the type of narcissism often associated with memoir (another reason I'm avoiding POD, etc.) and did not take the decision to write my story lightly. I am passionate about the narrative and have been told for many years by many people that I need to write this story. I just feel like I am having difficulty getting my manuscript in front of the right people and I read that male oriented memoir is a tough sell. That's why I'm wondering if this is gender bias on the part of agents in a female dominated industry or if the market (which I suspect is also largely female) really doesn't demand male memoir in general.

IMO you should never hold back when someone asks for a critique. You aren't doing them any favors by hiding your true feelings about their work, even if it is memoir. I wish I could find somebody who had the nerve to tell me my manuscript is a piece of crap (if that is genuinely how they felt). As an author, you have to accept that this is a critique of your writing and not you as a person.
 

cornflake

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Ok, I'll bite -- what is a male-oriented memoir?
 

Fruitbat

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Voodoo Chicken, it's also possible there is a gender bias that shows up by categorization. It crossed my mind that perhaps men tend to call their personal stories "autobiographies" rather than "memoirs." Just a wild thought here, but you may want to run the same research on "autobiographies" and see if that sheds any further light. ???
 

Voodoo Chicken

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Ok, I'll bite -- what is a male-oriented memoir?

Sorry, by male oriented memoir -I meant a memoir written by and about a man. I think some people believe women relate to "emotional writing" more than men and men are incapable of writing with vulnerability and emotion (especially about themselves). This is often coupled with the idea that one key ingredient to memoir is the protagonist's emotional arc and women don't always relate to a male POV. I'm not saying I agree with all of that. I've just heard/read this in other places.
 

Siri Kirpal

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Memoir writer here. I'm a woman and have had a hugely hard time selling my first memoir.

The problem is not gender, but platform. Unfortunately, memoir writers these days generally need a huge platform. Celebrity? Good to go. Were mentioned in the media during a major disaster? Probably good to go. A good writer with a good story? Uh...

I've had agents tell me they were interested in my story and my writing was great...but they couldn't sell it. Equally, I've had agents tell me that I probably could sell it, but uh...not for them.

Your gender isn't the issue. The issue is the platform.

Blessings,

Siri Kirpal
 

Voodoo Chicken

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Voodoo Chicken, it's also possible there is a gender bias that shows up by categorization. It crossed my mind that perhaps men tend to call their personal stories "autobiographies" rather than "memoirs." Just a wild thought here, but you may want to run the same research on "autobiographies" and see if that sheds any further light. ???

I haven't run across many books categorized as autobiography that are actually memoir, but that's not to say they don't exist. I think the difference between memoir and autobiography is pretty distinct. A memoir is typically about a profound experience that happened over the course of a specific period of time. This is why it's possible for one person to write many memoirs. An autobiography is about your entire life.

Another difference between memoir and autobiography is that people can relate to a well written memoir even if it was written by a non-celebrity. The idea is -memoir touches on universal themes everyone can relate to on a personal level. It's a fine line between exploitation and vulnerability with memoir, but the difference is clear. Autobiographies don't necessarily have to relate on a personal level -they can lean more towards exploitation.

Most autobiographies of note have been written by/about celebrities and historical figures. People have an existing interest in a person like that, so all the details that would drag a memoir down become interesting in an autobiography. If you're writing a memoir, nobody really cares about the mundane details of your life. Only details that drive the narrative are interesting (assuming the narrative is interesting). If you are fascinated by a celebrity or historical figure almost every aspect of their life is interesting to you. That's why a lot of autobiographies don't read like narrative non-fiction -they don't have to.

... anyway, kind of went on a rant there. Sorry.

.02
 

cornflake

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Sorry, by male oriented memoir -I meant a memoir written by and about a man. I think some people believe women relate to "emotional writing" more than men and men are incapable of writing with vulnerability and emotion (especially about themselves). This is often coupled with the idea that one key ingredient to memoir is the protagonist's emotional arc and women don't always relate to a male POV. I'm not saying I agree with all of that. I've just heard/read this in other places.

You're worried that a book by a man won't sell because more agents are women.

That's a new one on me. Consider the market, perhaps, and the authors of most books sold, kind of ever.

If women don't relate to male pov's, it'd be amazing they read any books at all.
 

Voodoo Chicken

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Sat Nam! (literally "Truth Name"--a Sikh greeting)

Memoir writer here. I'm a woman and have had a hugely hard time selling my first memoir.

The problem is not gender, but platform. Unfortunately, memoir writers these days generally need a huge platform. Celebrity? Good to go. Were mentioned in the media during a major disaster? Probably good to go. A good writer with a good story? Uh...

I've had agents tell me they were interested in my story and my writing was great...but they couldn't sell it. Equally, I've had agents tell me that I probably could sell it, but uh...not for them.

Your gender isn't the issue. The issue is the platform.

Blessings,

Siri Kirpal

Thanks for the insight. I realize platform is a big problem and I wish I had the time to create a blog, develop a Twitter following, set up a Facebook page, etc. I hate the idea that writers are now expected to promise built-in sales before a manuscript is even reviewed. Seems like a complete waste of good manuscripts written by normal, every day people and I thought part of the responsibility of agents and publishers was to promote their clients. I am friends with someone who could get my book in front of tens of thousands of people, but I really don't want to pitch based on that.

Part of this discussion comes from interviews I've read with agents who claim male memoir doesn't sell. That made me wonder how strong that perception is. I can believe that platform is a bigger problem than gender bias though. Thanks again.
 

Voodoo Chicken

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You're worried that a book by a man won't sell because more agents are women.

That's a new one on me. Consider the market, perhaps, and the authors of most books sold, kind of ever.

If women don't relate to male pov's, it'd be amazing they read any books at all.
I realize gender bias usually swings the other way in almost everything. I'm just talking about non-celebrity memoir specifically (not all books ever written). In my admittedly spotty research, after removing titles written by celebrities, female memoir seems to have a stronger market presence than male. That could be for a variety of reasons. I'm no expert on market trends, so I thought I would ask for opinions here.

Thanks.
 

Siri Kirpal

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If it's an adventure true story, being a man would serve you in good stead. Ditto if you were a movie star.

Blessings,

Siri Kirpal
 

cornflake

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I realize gender bias usually swings the other way in almost everything. I'm just talking about non-celebrity memoir specifically (not all books ever written). In my admittedly spotty research, after removing titles written by celebrities, female memoir seems to have a stronger market presence than male. That could be for a variety of reasons. I'm no expert on market trends, so I thought I would ask for opinions here.

Thanks.

I just went and looked at four different lists of either best or best-selling (which sometimes overlapped) memoirs of the past couple of years (WP, Amazon, etc.). Taking out celebrity titles, still more men than women on each and every list, by a good margin. Go figure.
 

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I just went and looked at four different lists of either best or best-selling (which sometimes overlapped) memoirs of the past couple of years (WP, Amazon, etc.). Taking out celebrity titles, still more men than women on each and every list, by a good margin. Go figure.

So then maybe more women memoir authors overall but more male memoir authors hit the best seller lists?

Cindyt, he said it was a memoir but I believe there is *some* overlap there.
 
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mccardey

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The thing is, if you write a stonkingly good memoir and it sells, it won't matter what the figures suggested. So I'd be inclined to say don't over-think the predictions. Women have read books by men about men since ever.
IMO you should never hold back when someone asks for a critique. You aren't doing them any favors by hiding your true feelings about their work, even if it is memoir. I wish I could find somebody who had the nerve to tell me my manuscript is a piece of crap (if that is genuinely how they felt). As an author, you have to accept that this is a critique of your writing and not you as a person.

SYW is the place for you, then ;)
 

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So then maybe more women memoir authors overall but more male memoir authors hit the best seller lists?

Cindyt, he said it was a memoir but I believe there is *some* overlap there.

What suggests there are more female memoir authors overall?
 

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Pardon me, but is it a memoir or an autobiography?

It's a memoir. I ran away from home at the age of sixteen and was a homeless teenager for a while before being taken in by the Dalai Lama's family. My manuscript is about that time period in my life.
 

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What suggests there are more female memoir authors overall?

I don't know, it was a question. I was trying to make sense of what you said and what he said. :Shrug:
 

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It's a memoir. I ran away from home at the age of sixteen and was a homeless teenager for a while before being taken in by the Dalai Lama's family. My manuscript is about that time period in my life.

The Dalai Lama's family? Well Hell's bells! That certainly takes it beyond most memoirs, I'd say. :)
 

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It's a memoir. I ran away from home at the age of sixteen and was a homeless teenager for a while before being taken in by the Dalai Lama's family. My manuscript is about that time period in my life.
Gotcha. I ran away in search of the Great Speckled Bird in Atlanta. But mine is a before cradle to present autobiography.
 

Siri Kirpal

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Then you're in the category of celebrity memoir if you include the Dalai Lama. And yes, if he's included, you'll need to trade on that name.

Blessings,

Siri Kirpal
 

Voodoo Chicken

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Sat Nam! (literally "Truth Name"--a Sikh greeting)

Then you're in the category of celebrity memoir if you include the Dalai Lama. And yes, if he's included, you'll need to trade on that name.

Blessings,

Siri Kirpal

This is starting to veer off topic but I must admit, part of my motivation behind creating this thread was to help reach 50 posts so I can post in SYW. It seems YA is extremely popular in the beta reading forum and I would make a terrible YA crit partner. So...

I have met the Dalai Lama on a few occasions, but he is not in my manuscript. I spent my time with his brother Thubten Jigme Norbu Rinpoche, Rinpoche's wife, and their son Jigme Norbu. Also, I have taken extreme care to not make this a story about them. It is not my place to tell their story. This is a story about a time in my life that they were a part of. I even thought about changing names, but their identity is pretty obvious within the context of the narrative.

My apologies if this thread is starting to sound a bit self centered. Such is the nature of memoir, I guess.
 

mccardey

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This is starting to veer off topic but I must admit, part of my motivation behind creating this thread was to help reach 50 posts so I can post in SYW. .
A really good way to make your 50 is to go in and crit in SYW. That way, you'll read and learn a lot from other crits - and people will be much more likely to crit for you if you've critted for them.

You don't need 50 posts to crit - only to ask for crit. Password in vista, in case you don't know. Good luck with it!
 

Voodoo Chicken

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A really good way to make your 50 is to go in and crit in SYW. That way, you'll read and learn a lot from other crits - and people will be much more likely to crit for you if you've critted for them.

You don't need 50 posts to crit - only to ask for crit. Password in vista, in case you don't know. Good luck with it!

Thanks for the advice. I just felt uncomfortable criticizing someone else's work without posting my own. Once I am allowed to post in SYW, I will definitely provide as many critiques as I am able.