Multiple POV

remister · Jun 1, 2017

What do you all think about multiple POVs in MG?

For me, I haven't read that many MG that use multiple POVs, and for these books, I sometimes wonder if I'd be better attached to the MCs if it was done single POV.

An exception of multiple POV I like is A Tangle of Knots, where the stories seem like separate stories at first, until the story lines converge together.

playground · Jun 1, 2017

Multiple POVs is pretty common in MG. I would say the biggest difference (someone can correct me if I'm wrong here) that I've noticed between MG market and adult market with multiple POV is MG seems to stick to two POCs. I haven't encountered one that has more than two.

remister · Jun 1, 2017

playground said:
Multiple POVs is pretty common in MG. I would say the biggest difference (someone can correct me if I'm wrong here) that I've noticed between MG market and adult market with multiple POV is MG seems to stick to two POCs. I haven't encountered one that has more than two.

Can you name some? Especially fantasy and the good ones

I want to check them out.

Toothpaste · Jun 2, 2017

My latest has two POVs but it's third person and the narrative voice is the same for both, if that makes sense. It's not quite fantasy - more Magical Realist - but I like to think it's a "good one"

:

THE_EXPLORERS: The_Door_In_The_Alley

https://www.amazon.com/dp/1101940050/?tag=absowrit-20

remister · Jun 2, 2017

Toothpaste said:
My latest has two POVs but it's third person and the narrative voice is the same for both, if that makes sense. It's not quite fantasy - more Magical Realist - but I like to think it's a "good one" :

THE_EXPLORERS: The_Door_In_The_Alley

https://www.amazon.com/dp/1101940050/?tag=absowrit-20

Awesome! I'll check it out.

Melody · Jun 4, 2017

I personally don't mind two because it can be interesting to see the same scene from two different perspectives. I think more than that is hard to pull off. I agree that it makes it harder to connect to the MC, because there may not be one.

GeneBWell · Jun 5, 2017

THE CANDYMAKERS is a great example, using 4 unique perspectives to peel back the mystery one layer at a time. I highly recommend it. I'm actually also writing using two alternating POVs. It's sometimes a challenge justifying both characters splitting the spotlight, but I feel it also gives me the chance to show different angles on the story.

playground · Jun 5, 2017

remister said:
Can you name some? Especially fantasy and the good ones I want to check them out.

The ones that come off the top of my head is the Fablehaven series by Brandon Mull as well as his sequel series to it Dragonwatch. He is a great author to read regardless though so I'd read his stuff in general.

Toothpaste already said it but her book is dual POV as well (fun read as well).

Rick Riordan did dual POVs in the Kane Chronicles (never got around to reading this yet so I can't say much on it).

I also believe Jonathan Auxier does dual POVs in his Sophie Quier and the Last Storyguard book, however that is a sequel to his Peter Nimble book. Regardless, he is a writer to follow as well, fantastic work so far from all three of his novels I have read.

Some others might come to me but I feel that gives you a good starting ground

playground · Jun 7, 2017

Forgot to include Wonder, that one has like...four POVs? I wasn't as crazy about it as others but it is still a good one to reference. The biggest thing with multiple POVs is making sure each one is essential, that they have clear things they need to do and its not just showing another angle of the same action of another character. You are essentially writing two stories in one.

remister · Jun 7, 2017

Melody said:
I personally don't mind two because it can be interesting to see the same scene from two different perspectives. I think more than that is hard to pull off. I agree that it makes it harder to connect to the MC, because there may not be one.

Yes. I tend to like single POVs.

GeneBWell said:
THE CANDYMAKERS is a great example, using 4 unique perspectives to peel back the mystery one layer at a time. I highly recommend it. I'm actually also writing using two alternating POVs. It's sometimes a challenge justifying both characters splitting the spotlight, but I feel it also gives me the chance to show different angles on the story.

Argh. I'm still waiting for my library to purchase this book!

playground said:
The ones that come off the top of my head is the Fablehaven series by Brandon Mull as well as his sequel series to it Dragonwatch. He is a great author to read regardless though so I'd read his stuff in general.

Toothpaste already said it but her book is dual POV as well (fun read as well).

Rick Riordan did dual POVs in the Kane Chronicles (never got around to reading this yet so I can't say much on it).

I also believe Jonathan Auxier does dual POVs in his Sophie Quier and the Last Storyguard book, however that is a sequel to his Peter Nimble book. Regardless, he is a writer to follow as well, fantastic work so far from all three of his novels I have read.

Some others might come to me but I feel that gives you a good starting ground

playground said:
Forgot to include Wonder, that one has like...four POVs? I wasn't as crazy about it as others but it is still a good one to reference. The biggest thing with multiple POVs is making sure each one is essential, that they have clear things they need to do and its not just showing another angle of the same action of another character. You are essentially writing two stories in one.

Thank you! I'll check all these out!

CathleenT · Jun 7, 2017

Don't forget omni, too, which allows you to accomplish many of the same things. Harry Potter is written in omniscient.

remister · Jun 7, 2017

CathleenT said:
Don't forget omni, too, which allows you to accomplish many of the same things. Harry Potter is written in omniscient.

Isn't HP in third limited? And very much only from Harry's POV, except very little bits of some other POVs in later books.

Only the opening of the first book is in omni, as far as I recall? It's been eons since I read HP.

CathleenT · Jun 7, 2017

It's subtle, and very close to third limited, and I've read opinions declaring that Harry Potter is limited third. Harry is definitely the focus character, and I don't think there's such a thing as a little bit omni, although others disagree. I've read people stating that it's limited third that strays into omni. I think some people expect an obvious treatment, like a Dickensian narrator.

Still, the scene with Lord Voldemort at the beginning of The Goblet of Fire could hardly be anything else. Yes, Harry dreamed some of it, but we didn't experience it as Harry's dream.

Personally, I think of it as a great example of how to make omni feel like limited third, yet still keep all the advantages of an omniscient perspective.

ETA: Not nearly as famous, but Dark Lord of Derkholm by Diana Wynne Jones is definitely in omni, and it's MG.

be frank · Jun 7, 2017

HP's definitely third limited, IMO.

If 99+% of seven books is seen through Harry's POV, apart from one or two really short diversions into "Meanwhile, at Bad Guy HQ[SUP]TM[/SUP]" ... it's not omni.

Toothpaste · Jun 8, 2017

Harry is third limited for sure. But generally the first chapter from every book in the series is a different person's perspective (in the first book from two actually). But after that first chapter in each book it's always Harry.

Debbie V · Jun 8, 2017

Toothpaste said:
Harry is third limited for sure. But generally the first chapter from every book in the series is a different person's perspective (in the first book from two actually). But after that first chapter in each book it's always Harry.

Which is exactly why it's Omni. Omni can always pull in to close third, but close third pulling out to someone else is head hopping. We are sometimes given hints at what others are thinking. You can call those Harry's guesses or an omniscient narrator's knowledge.

But this is off topic. I was going to recommend Wonder, but it's listed above. Nothing else to add.

Toothpaste · Jun 8, 2017

I guess we will disagree. To me omni is about a narrator who goes into different heads and sometimes stays out altogether within a chapter and it happens consistently. Having a different POV is not necessarily head hopping though especially if it's for one full chapter and there's a pattern to it.

I have three POVs in The_Friday_Society and they are all third limited, you never jump from one person's thought to the others within one chapter. It's like in first person having multiple POVs, one would not call THAT omni. And in The_Explorers I have two POVs. Again, where with each character you are only with that character until the next chapter etc. So it is again third limited with 2 POVs.

With Harry Potter she ONLY ever shows another POV in those first chapters. And it's only from THAT one POV. The rest of the books are from Harry's POV. So to my mind that makes it third limited.

ETA: I just googled and it seems that there is a term called Third Person Multiple which seems to cover what I am talking about. It's still not Third Omni but it isn't limited either it looks like. So that's a good compromise

(though I still will argue Harry Potter. When you have hundreds of pages devoted to one POV and only maybe 10 or so to another one, it feels wrong to say that it is told from multiple points of view)

http://www.thebeginningwriter.com/2012/03/look-at-different-types-of-point-of.html

Third Person Limited: Limited means that the POV is limited to only one character. Which means that the narrator only knows what that character knows. With third person limited you can choose to view the action from right inside the character's head, or from further away, where the narrator has more access to information outside the protagonist's viewpoint.

Third Person Multiple: This type is still in the "he/she/it" category, but now the narrator can follow multiple characters in the story. The challenge is making sure that the reader knows when you are switching from one character to another. Make the switch obvious with chapter or section breaks.

Third Person Omniscient: This point of view still uses the "he/she/it" narration but now the narrator knows EVERYTHING. The narrator isn't limited by what one character knows, sort of like the narrator is God. The narrator can know things that others don't, can make comments about what's happening, and can see inside the minds of other characters.

DavidBrett · Jun 22, 2017

playground said:
Rick Riordan did dual POVs in the Kane Chronicles (never got around to reading this yet so I can't say much on it).

I actually have the first in the series because I promised myself I'd buy his books if he started an Ancient Egyptian series - I'm crazy about that period! I've only read a few chapters so far, but yes, it's dual-POV's told between siblings telling their sides of the story, almost as if they're being questioned by police but as records for others to find in the future.

A classic set of books commonly in dual POV's were the collaborative books by Paul Jennings and Morris Gleitzman called "Deadly!" (I think that's the series...?)

emstar94 · Aug 2, 2017

My YA has dual POVs which I feel works quite well, if I were to write MG I'd love to write multiple POVs again; it's so much more fun in my opinion. You get to be both an actor and a writer

LittleSimon · Nov 2, 2017

Depends. Adult Povs are hard to pull off though.

Multiple POV

remister

playground

remister

Toothpaste

THE RECKLESS RESCUE is out now!

remister

Melody

Writer of MG, YA and Adult

GeneBWell

playground

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remister

CathleenT

I write

remister

CathleenT

I write

be frank

not a bloke, not named frank

Toothpaste

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Debbie V

Mentoring Myself and Others

Toothpaste

THE RECKLESS RESCUE is out now!

DavidBrett

Alas, poor Yorick, he fed me 'nanas

emstar94

LittleSimon