Request for full MS! Then ten minutes later another agent rejected the same full ...

Turniphead2

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Hi

This is like a rollercoaster on LSD - very crazy. I looked at my inbox and there was a full request for my new novel from a well known agency; so I was overjoyed and was just about to celebrate and go and by the champagne when I noticed an email from a different agent (very big) rejecting my full, saying it wasn't quite right for them.

This must break some records somewhere along the line. So I was super up for literally ten minutes when I got a request for a full MS, then ......... disaster - my initial full was rejected by the other guys.

So now I'm a bit depressed - having two fulls out there was amazing after sending out 13 manuscripts. And now it's only 1.

I guess I'm doing something right and politely asked the guy who rejected me why it didn't 'fit with him'.

I used to love playing poker and to be honest, trying to get a book published is very similar in terms of the emotional ups and downs - there just isn't enough valium in the world to calm me down right now - but hey, I'm a writer, so it would make a good short story. Oh well back to sending out the MS. Whenever I get a rejection I always respond to it by sending more out there.

And after writing for six years with nothing published, I'm aiming to approach 100UK agents and 100 US agents - that's my year's work.

Bit downhearted though.

Turnip
 

mayqueen

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I'm sorry for the rejection, but your plan to keep at it is excellent.

However, i would strongly caution against asking why someone rejected your MS. One, an agent who doesn't represent you doesn't owe you editorial work. Two, often times it's too hard to articulate or truly doesn't come down to "just didn't love it enough to represent."

Hang in there. Keep querying.
 

M.S. Wiggins

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... like a rollercoaster on LSD - very crazy.

Excellent description.

Don't let it get you down. Put your earthquake bolts on and sway with the shakes. You'll go crazy if you don't. (Good luck with the next full submission.)
 

cornflake

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Hi

This is like a rollercoaster on LSD - very crazy. I looked at my inbox and there was a full request for my new novel from a well known agency; so I was overjoyed and was just about to celebrate and go and by the champagne when I noticed an email from a different agent (very big) rejecting my full, saying it wasn't quite right for them.

This must break some records somewhere along the line. So I was super up for literally ten minutes when I got a request for a full MS, then ......... disaster - my initial full was rejected by the other guys.

So now I'm a bit depressed - having two fulls out there was amazing after sending out 13 manuscripts. And now it's only 1.

I guess I'm doing something right and politely asked the guy who rejected me why it didn't 'fit with him'.

I used to love playing poker and to be honest, trying to get a book published is very similar in terms of the emotional ups and downs - there just isn't enough valium in the world to calm me down right now - but hey, I'm a writer, so it would make a good short story. Oh well back to sending out the MS. Whenever I get a rejection I always respond to it by sending more out there.

And after writing for six years with nothing published, I'm aiming to approach 100UK agents and 100 US agents - that's my year's work.

Bit downhearted though.

Turnip

Please, do not email agents who send you form rejections and ask them why.
 

Turniphead2

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Thanks for the kind responses. I won't ask again why they don't like it as it was a form rejection. It's hard to take it. It was the first full I've had rejected.
 

neurotype

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Never forget how subjective this business is. One agent's "no thanks" is another agent's "let's talk". Last book I submitted I was very lucky to get quite a few full requests, but only half of the rejections came with explanations. Just think if you were on the street passing out your novel, how many people do you think would say they loved it, how many would like it, and how many would say it wasn't for them.=? You'd get a range of responses! But only one agent needs to love it, so you've still got some odds.
 

cornflake

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Thanks for the kind responses. I won't ask again why they don't like it as it was a form rejection. It's hard to take it. It was the first full I've had rejected.

It doesn't matter why they reject it -- stop emailing and calling agents who don't ask you to. It will do nothing but hurt you.
 

Turniphead2

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Excellent description.

Don't let it get you down. Put your earthquake bolts on and sway with the shakes. You'll go crazy if you don't. (Good luck with the next full submission.)

This means a lot thank you. And I'm learning as I go along.


TYVM

Turnip
 

writeonleanne

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Getting full requests is awesome—not everyone even gets that far.

Out of curiosity, are you planning on sending out your queries to the two hundred agents in batches? If you're getting rejections, you might want to revisit your query letter and sample pages during each batch.

Also, I agree with what everyone is saying above—don't email or call agents unless they reach out first, unless it's a polite nudge if they have your full MS, and only if they've exceeded the time limit. And never if they reject it. Be patient! The waiting can be tough, but you don't want to breathe down anyone's neck, either.
 

Turniphead2

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Getting full requests is awesome—not everyone even gets that far.

Out of curiosity, are you planning on sending out your queries to the two hundred agents in batches? If you're getting rejections, you might want to revisit your query letter and sample pages during each batch.

Also, I agree with what everyone is saying above—don't email or call agents unless they reach out first, unless it's a polite nudge if they have your full MS, and only if they've exceeded the time limit. And never if they reject it. Be patient! The waiting can be tough, but you don't want to breathe down anyone's neck, either.


Thanks for this kind msg. I'm thinking of zapping it out to a hundred; if I can't ask agents why they reject work, how can I improve my MS? - they kind of contradict each other. So, unless I get three agents saying we didn't like it because of X how would I know what to change in the MS.

There is a caveat - there are some fantasy sequences in my psychological thriller - some beta readers loved them. And one didn't - so after 30/40 rejections I might reduce them. Apart from that I wouldn't know how to improve it. It's my sixth completed novel - all the old ones aren't good enough, but I think this one is.

I wouldn't want to change something agents might like. Everyone seems to do batches, but if you can't ask where you're going wrong, how are you going to know what to change?

TY again for your kind feedback.

Turnip
 

Cyia

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if I can't ask agents why they reject work, how can I improve my MS?

Blunt answer? This is neither their job, nor their problem.

They *work* for their signed clients; that's their job. Reading queries is a side-thing they don't get paid for. Asking them for feedback is also something they wouldn't be paid for. A book should be in top shape when it's sent, and if it's not, then that's on the writer, not the agent. They aren't there to make your work better for the next guy you send it to.
 

cornflake

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Thanks for this kind msg. I'm thinking of zapping it out to a hundred; if I can't ask agents why they reject work, how can I improve my MS? - they kind of contradict each other. So, unless I get three agents saying we didn't like it because of X how would I know what to change in the MS.

There is a caveat - there are some fantasy sequences in my psychological thriller - some beta readers loved them. And one didn't - so after 30/40 rejections I might reduce them. Apart from that I wouldn't know how to improve it. It's my sixth completed novel - all the old ones aren't good enough, but I think this one is.

I wouldn't want to change something agents might like. Everyone seems to do batches, but if you can't ask where you're going wrong, how are you going to know what to change?

TY again for your kind feedback.

Turnip

Agents don't exist to help improve your writing. It's not their job to coach you, to help you, to even care if you improve, see.

Imagine you're shopping for a shirt. You go into H&M or M&S or wherever, and look over a bunch of tables of shirts, looking for something. You know what you want, maybe somewhat specifically, like a white button-down, but to you, that means something different than to me -- you like one fabric more, I like another, you might like one kind of cuff, I might like another, you just browse for a shirt you like.

Now, imagine, as you're walking through, you're set upon by 150 people, all of whom designed shirts you just walked by, looked at, maybe touched the sleeve on, looked at the price of, fingered the collar, the button, checked the cut, and just eh, moved on. Those 150 people are all like: Why didn't you buy MY shirt?'

The first person standing there is holding a blue button-down and asking, and you say, 'I want a white one.' Person says 'I have a white one!' and runs off to get it. Second person steps closer holding a white striped one 'why didn't you buy mine?' You didn't want stripes. That person hurries off to get you a plain one. Next person has a white button down -- Why didn't you buy mine?? 'I dunno, it's not what I was looking for?'

"In what way? How will I make a better shirt if you don't tell me what you want???'

Are you likely to sit down and discuss your personal preferences in fabric, or are you likely to think that person is a fucking nutter, because a. you're one person and there are 100 browsing the shirts, b. why are they asking you, you just want to buy a shirt and go, c. acting like a nutter, d. omfg shut up and leave me alone, I haven't even looked at the other rack of shirts and there's a mob of shirt designers following me and the first two are BACK now and want me to look at their other shirts and...

Agents do not sit around hoping to help you improve your writing. They have jobs to do.
 

writeonleanne

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Thanks for this kind msg. I'm thinking of zapping it out to a hundred; if I can't ask agents why they reject work, how can I improve my MS? - they kind of contradict each other. So, unless I get three agents saying we didn't like it because of X how would I know what to change in the MS.

There is a caveat - there are some fantasy sequences in my psychological thriller - some beta readers loved them. And one didn't - so after 30/40 rejections I might reduce them. Apart from that I wouldn't know how to improve it. It's my sixth completed novel - all the old ones aren't good enough, but I think this one is.

I wouldn't want to change something agents might like. Everyone seems to do batches, but if you can't ask where you're going wrong, how are you going to know what to change?

TY again for your kind feedback.

Turnip

No prob!

You don't need feedback from agents to revisit your work or your query letters. That's part of the work you're going to have to do on your own, through research and with help from beta readers. I approached it a couple of different ways:

- With my query letter, I would send out one version per batch (usually between 7-10 agents). Then, depending on their response (i.e. all rejects), I would change up my query letter. My theory was that if I continued to blast agents with a query letter that didn't work, then I'd eventually run out of agents to submit to.

- I revisited my sample pages after a handful of form rejections while querying and found some pretty glaring mistakes that I learned put me in the auto-reject pile (starting the novel with dialog). I ended up diving back in with the help of some beta readers and my own research to make sure everything was 100% ready. I went through my first four chapters with a magnifying glass, let me tell you.

Now, everyone's process is going to be a little bit different. This was just something that worked for me. There are a lot of resources that you can use here to help improve your work (after 50 posts, you can share your first chapter and query letter in the Share Your Work board).

Hope this helps, and good luck with querying!
 

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I love cornflake's analogy. Agents are not meant to be seen but heard. He's right - don't ask. Line em up and move a long. Treat querying as an assembly line as agents treat us.
 

CJSimone

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Hi

This is like a rollercoaster on LSD - very crazy. I looked at my inbox and there was a full request for my new novel from a well known agency; so I was overjoyed and was just about to celebrate and go and by the champagne when I noticed an email from a different agent (very big) rejecting my full, saying it wasn't quite right for them.

This must break some records somewhere along the line. So I was super up for literally ten minutes when I got a request for a full MS, then ......... disaster - my initial full was rejected by the other guys.

So now I'm a bit depressed - having two fulls out there was amazing after sending out 13 manuscripts. And now it's only 1.

I guess I'm doing something right and politely asked the guy who rejected me why it didn't 'fit with him'.

I used to love playing poker and to be honest, trying to get a book published is very similar in terms of the emotional ups and downs - there just isn't enough valium in the world to calm me down right now - but hey, I'm a writer, so it would make a good short story. Oh well back to sending out the MS. Whenever I get a rejection I always respond to it by sending more out there.

And after writing for six years with nothing published, I'm aiming to approach 100UK agents and 100 US agents - that's my year's work.

Bit downhearted though.

Turnip

Hi Turnip. Sorry about your experience. Sucks you didn't get more of a chance to enjoy the good news. Is that full still out, so you have a chance with it? This agent could love it. It only makes sense that it's subjective for agents when you think about how different we all are in what books we enjoy. So press on. But I agree with others that sending all your queries out at once is not the way to go. I'd test it out with a few at a time (no more than twenty, but enough to make a decision). If you keep getting rejected, make some changes. And you really don't need agents themselves to help you figure out how to improve. That's what you have us for. :)

Best plan from here I think: Get your posts up, post your query in QLH and your opening chapter or two in SYW. If you haven't already, consider a critique group. Talk to your previous beta readers about what might possibly be making agents reject the manuscript, and find a few more beta readers.

It's a long hard process, and I know you've been at this for six years, but you could be right at the point when things turn around. Especially if you get the help you need here.

Best with it!

CJ
 

emstar94

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Hi

This is like a rollercoaster on LSD - very crazy. I looked at my inbox and there was a full request for my new novel from a well known agency; so I was overjoyed and was just about to celebrate and go and by the champagne when I noticed an email from a different agent (very big) rejecting my full, saying it wasn't quite right for them.

This must break some records somewhere along the line. So I was super up for literally ten minutes when I got a request for a full MS, then ......... disaster - my initial full was rejected by the other guys.

So now I'm a bit depressed - having two fulls out there was amazing after sending out 13 manuscripts. And now it's only 1.

I guess I'm doing something right and politely asked the guy who rejected me why it didn't 'fit with him'.

I used to love playing poker and to be honest, trying to get a book published is very similar in terms of the emotional ups and downs - there just isn't enough valium in the world to calm me down right now - but hey, I'm a writer, so it would make a good short story. Oh well back to sending out the MS. Whenever I get a rejection I always respond to it by sending more out there.

And after writing for six years with nothing published, I'm aiming to approach 100UK agents and 100 US agents - that's my year's work.

Bit downhearted though.

Turnip

Hi

Firstly congratulations on being asked for the full - that's a huge deal!
It's easy for me to say 'don't get down' when I know the rejection feels crappy but you never know, these could be the ones and if they aren't, keep persevering with the queries and someone else will be!
You're obviously onto something and being noticed so - all the signs are good!
I also wouldn't ask agents why they rejected - I too get annoyed/upset/all negative emotions in those moments of rejection but, it's just not the right fit for them and that's all there is to it

Chin up!
 

Maiah

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Personally, I don't see the harm in asking why a publisher or agent rejected your work. As long as you can stomach whatever resppnse you might get from them and their response is the closure you need.

A few years back I was rejected by Loose Id and I had asked what I could have done, the editor was very nice and gave me quite a few pointers. Though, I haven't gone very far since then, but I was grateful for what she did.

Writing is lonely work.
 

mccardey

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Personally, I don't see the harm in asking why a publisher or agent rejected your work. As long as you can stomach whatever resppnse you might get from them and their response is the closure you need.

A few years back I was rejected by Loose Id and I had asked what I could have done, the editor was very nice and gave me quite a few pointers. Though, I haven't gone very far since then, but I was grateful for what she did.

Writing is lonely work.

Read the thread. Read Cornflake's post #13. And read threads by other people who rant about how rude it is that agents send form rejections, or even worse, don't send form rejections, and you'll see a connection.

Agents work for their clients. Publishers publish books. They're not there to teach or coddle or ease the way. It's great that you had a kind and helpful response from the editor who gave you pointers, but there's no reason to turn an act of kindness from one editor into a suggestion that all writers are entitled to ask for or expect the same kindness from every other publisher or editor or agent they query.

Be glad and grateful you got it - but don't suggest that there's no harm in every writer asking for it, unless you're prepared to put your hand up and say "Oh, that was me" when the next writer goes off on a rant about why some publishers have a No Response Means No policy. It's because they don't have time to deal with the expectation that if they reject your work they owe you an explanation, or some kind of 'closure'.
 
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I think I have you beat on the rollercoaster record... I got a full request (on my birthday), stood up to celebrate (two fists in the air, "Yesss!"), and then literally got a rejection for another full MS that had been out before I even sat down. I think they were one minute apart. On my birthday. Good job getting those full requests though!
 

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If agents and editors send you feedback with a rejection, accept it as a simple courtesy. In general, don't reply (in rare situations it might be appropriate). Use what you can from the feedback, or not, and move on.

I know AW threads have pointed this out before: many agencies get 20,000 or more queries a year. Looking at those is a big chunk of time where they're not working for existing clients, so they have to be somewhat brutal about weeding out the immediate rejections. It's not personal.

Sometimes an agent rejects a full mms ten months to a year after getting it. Or forgetting about it altogether. This happens at publishers, too. Tor lost one of mine for eight months once, and when my then-agent asked about re-sending it, was told it wouldn't be read for another eight to nine months. We pulled it from consideration...and I still got a rejection from them about a year later.
 

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In the same boat. I'm at the point where full MS requests don't get me that excited anymore--I just think, it'll come back as a rejection anyway...(don't get me wrong, I'm still always grateful for any kind of positive response, but it's hard when it seems like no agent will ever LOVE my work.)
 

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Everyone seems to do batches, but if you can't ask where you're going wrong, how are you going to know what to change?

This response is late so it may not apply to Turnip, but for what it's worth to future visitors...

The idea is that if you do ten at a time and receive only one (or less) out of ten responses, then you can assume your current query won't work for 90% of agents. It gives you a glimpse into what you can expect in the end at the rate you are currently going: maybe 10 agents out of one hundred. You do ten at a time, then revise or rewrite the query to raise that percentage.

A query is about 300 words (though I've seen some in the 500s) so while rewriting may suck, it's not like you're pulling a brand new short story out of thin air. The next draft will probably be better if you've done your research.

Late congrats btw. Having two fulls requested, rejection or not, is something to be proud of.
 
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Haha, I've totally been there. A few years ago, I was set to have a phone call with a prospective agent, only to have another agent email me a pretty brutal rejection letter 10 minutes before the call! Keep trying though!