Will Barnes & Noble still be here in 10 years time?

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Indie bookstores are growing but it looks like B&N is struggling.


https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...unges-after-worst-holiday-quarter-in-a-decade
Barnes & Noble Plunges After Worst Holiday Quarter in Decade

Barnes & Noble Inc. investors were bracing for weak results over the holidays. What they got was worse.

The bookstore chain posted profit of 96 cents last quarter, well below the $1.13 analysts estimated. And same-store sales — a closely watched benchmark — plunged 8.3 percent. That was the biggest holiday-quarter decline since 2005.

. . . .

The results suggest that Chief Executive Officer Leonard Riggio has more of an uphill battle against Amazon.com Inc. than feared. Barnes & Noble is struggling to get customers into its stores, and efforts to expand its nonbook merchandise has had limited payoff.

Barnes & Noble’s Nook e-reader platform, once seen as a rival to Amazon’s Kindle, also has failed to deliver. Sales of Nook content, devices and accessories fell 26 percent last quarter, which ended Jan. 28.


A few years ago, B&N announced that it is planning to close 1/3 of its store over the next 10 years.

https://techcrunch.com/2013/01/28/b...hird-of-retail-stores-over-the-next-10-years/
Barnes & Noble To Shutter One-Third Of Retail Stores Over The Next 10 Years

Revenue is on the downward trend:
2012: $4,852,913,000
2013: 4,568,247,000
2014: 4,295,140,000
2015: 4,108,243,000
2016: 4,028,614,000

With 2015 the only profitable year

2012: ($64,840,000 loss)
2013: (157,806,000 loss)
2014: (47,268,000 loss)
2015: 36,596,000 profit
2016: (24,446,000 loss)


I am fearful for the future of B&N.
 

cornflake

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Why? Good fucking riddance. They killed my local indie and now the new indie is usually filled with people while the B&N is filled with half a floor of toys and crap. They don't shelve well, stock well... they can reap what they've sown.
 

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I don't know of any indie bookstores around here. In 10 years I probably won't care anyway, everyone keeps saying "the majority of books sales are online".
 

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Why? Good fucking riddance. They killed my local indie and now the new indie is usually filled with people while the B&N is filled with half a floor of toys and crap. They don't shelve well, stock well... they can reap what they've sown.

I see where you're coming from, but without B&N we have nothing in town except the cruddy selection at a local department store. We don't even have a used bookstore. And you'll get my Samsung Nook when you pry it from my cold, dead fingers...

But, that said, I can't say I see bright things in the company's future, or our local branch in particular. They were packed for the holidays, but I was just in there yesterday, and it was almost dead silent save the music. Once again, they had less than the time I was in before, especially in the SF/F section that I prefer to haunt - they're even shelving most books these days with covers face-out, so they have a lot less total stock, a lot fewer titles. I was honestly surprised they had the one title I went in looking for; more often than not, I have to go online anyway, where it's a toss-up between them and Amazon who gets my business - and I gotta say, Amazon Prime often sways me. Only two people were in line, and still it took me way too long to get checked out because the salesperson was dinking around trying to sell another customer stuff they clearly didn't want, like a B&N membership. (And I still don't know why they can't automatically add coupons to a B&N card, so I don't have to print one out and carry it around with me - just make a note when a particular card has used a coupon so it can't be used twice. Not rocket science, people...) They just plain don't seem to be adapting well to modern reader habits. Indie bookstores may be doing better because they're more flexible and can offer local, personal service, tailoring their stock and other offerings (book clubs? author talks?) to their clientele better than a lumbering corporate dinosaur.
 

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I don't know of any indie bookstores around here. In 10 years I probably won't care anyway, everyone keeps saying "the majority of books sales are online".

You're right that the majority of book sales happen online, but there's still a good portion of book sales which are made in physical shops: about one in three, if I remember rightly. So if physical shops were to disappear right now, it's possible that book sales would drop by a third. And I don't think that would be good for anyone interested in book sales.

However, there's another factor to consider. Physical bookshops fuel a lot of those online sales. Lots of people make their selection by browsing in physical bookshops and then go and buy them online. I saw a study of this which showed that over half of online sales--I think around 70% but I can't remember exactly so don't quote me on this--were made after first selecting the book in a physical bookshop.

So if we lose physical bookshops, a lot of writers are going to lose out--including those writers whose sales happen mostly online.


Indie bookstores are growing

Are they? That's brilliant news!
 

cornflake

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They are.

the good news is that the indies are quietly resurging across the nation, registering a growth of over 30 percent since 2009 and sales that were up around 10 percent last year, according to the American Booksellers Association, the indies’ main organization with more than 2,200 stores...

Mr. Doeblin relished opening his third Book Culture store in 2014 on the upper West Side only a few blocks from a Barnes & Noble that was reportedly struggling to survive in the face of Amazon. He had giant advance notices emblazoned on the windows announcing: “You’ve Got Mail, New York! You’re Going to Get Another Independent Book Store!” He was delighted to find eager customers when it opened, and now has 15,000 people registered for discounts. The store holds various social activities and sells plenty of products like stationery, greeting cards, children’s games and toys, even backpacks — all part of the merchandise of most successful bookstores nowadays.

This is a whole list of linked stories about independent bookstores on the rise, from the American Booksellers Assn (the stories are from regular newspapers and such, just collected on the ABA page).

Also, print books are on the rise, ebooks are falling.

Preliminary figures from the Association of American Publishers found that sales of e-books for trade publishers fell 14% in 2015 compared to 2014 and accounted for 20% of overall trade book revenue, down from 23% in 2014. Going beyond AAP’s member publisher sales performance, the Codex Group’s April 2016 survey of 4,992 book buyers found that e-book units purchased as a share of total books purchased fell from 35.9% in April 2015 to 32.4% in April 2016. The Codex survey includes e-books published by traditional publishers and self-publishers and sold across all channels and in all categories.

I do feel bad for people living in areas with only a B&N but they suck, they tried to run bookstores out of business, and, as above, hopefully if they tank, indies will take their place.
 
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frimble3

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When I look at the list of ancillary activities that bookstores are doing to generate business, a thought hit me: Postal outlet! I don't know about the U.S., but in Canada it's not uncommon for a mall, for example, to have a little storefront postal outlet, often in conjunction with another business that has a fair bit of downtime (the one nearest to me is a copy/custom t-shirt place.
This would seem to be a good match with a bookstore, and more useful than selling trinkets. People come in to mail something, and have to walk past the books to do it. And, what could be more convenient than being able to pick out a card or a book, wrap and mail it, all in one stop?
 

cmhbob

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Our local mall lost the Sears anchor just over a year ago. Our library needs space. I cannot fathom why the two don't get together. It's an absolute win for everyone involved. More traffic to the mall. More traffic to the library. What's not to like? The library has two buildings right now; one is office spaces. Consolidation, lower costs, and higher traffic.
 

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cmhbob

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That's what gave me the idea. When that story flooded social media a while back, I sent it to a couple of people I knew in the library system. I never heard anything back.
 

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I haven't been in a BN for two to three years. The only reason then was because a friend was doing a signing. My indie store will order me anything I want, even if they don't stock it. I like the idea of turning empty mall stores into a library. My local branch library is one of the smaller ones in our system. They have more visits and circulation than any other branch except the big main library. Thank goodness for inter-branch transfers. I can order anything in the system online and pick it up at my branch within 2-5 days.

MM
 

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Same here, and we're in the same geographic area. I don't even know if the nearest B&N at Chandler Mall (8 miles away) is still around. I go up to Changing Hands or Poisoned Pen (great indies) or HalfPrice Books (outlet) for my physical book needs (if not Amazon).
 

cornflake

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I do question what will happen to the indies if Amazon bookstores start popping up all over. I love my local indie, but I can't deny I like Amazon's pricing, and I'm kind of excited to visit the new store once it opens here.
 

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What a great story. Ironically, I was just lamenting to a friend the other day that the library quite near my house is so small, it's just not really a fun place to visit. Literally caddy-corner across the intersection, a Wal-Mart just closed it's doors...wonder if I could find out what, if anything is planned for that space now.

I do question what will happen to the indies if Amazon bookstores start popping up all over. I love my local indie, but I can't deny I like Amazon's pricing, and I'm kind of excited to visit the new store once it opens here.

Here's what I don't get:

If BN is going to go out of business because the Amazon model is shutting them down, and authors on Amazon are only making $0.00046 per page or something like that, will the trade see a downturn in professional authors? Wonder what kind of long term impact that will have in the market? Kind of funny... Similarly, I can't help but notice a scary parallel here:

Apple's rise to prominence was due in part as a response to the corporate bullish behavior of Microsoft, and look at what Apple has become.
Amazon's rise to prominence was due in part as a response to the corporate bullish behavior of B&N, and look at what Amazon has become.

Are these parallels too eerily accurate or is it just me with a tin foil hat regarding the world cynically through my decrepit eyes?

Sorry, that's taking the thread slightly off-topic but wanted to add some additional fodder there...
 

frimble3

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I do question what will happen to the indies if Amazon bookstores start popping up all over. I love my local indie, but I can't deny I like Amazon's pricing, and I'm kind of excited to visit the new store once it opens here.
Amazon sells so much more than books. How long will it be before they can't resist the urge to become the 'Amazon General Store', with a few books along one wall? If they operate merely as a pick-up point for the many, many objects they have in warehouses (kiosks where you can search their on-line listings and order stuff for delivery to the store) there will still be room for indie bookstores, especially if they specialize in something and really know their stock. Ditto if Amazons are staffed by cashiers and shelf-stockers, with no one who can really help a customer.
 

cornflake

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Amazon sells so much more than books. How long will it be before they can't resist the urge to become the 'Amazon General Store', with a few books along one wall? If they operate merely as a pick-up point for the many, many objects they have in warehouses (kiosks where you can search their on-line listings and order stuff for delivery to the store) there will still be room for indie bookstores, especially if they specialize in something and really know their stock. Ditto if Amazons are staffed by cashiers and shelf-stockers, with no one who can really help a customer.

They've got pick-up spots, where you just get your box, and can bring things to return. It's nicer than the lockers, with charging stations for Kindles and chairs and stuff and actual people.

They're also rolling out a cashierless grocery/basic store where you turn on the app as you enter, then just take whatever you like and leave and are billed automatically.

The bookstores seem to be a straight bookstore, with pricing equivalent to the site.
 

frimble3

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They've got pick-up spots, where you just get your box, and can bring things to return. It's nicer than the lockers, with charging stations for Kindles and chairs and stuff and actual people.
Thanks for the info, sounds interesting.
They're also rolling out a cashierless grocery/basic store where you turn on the app as you enter, then just take whatever you like and leave and are billed automatically.
There's going to be an exciting period where everyone is going to look like a shoplifter, I hope store security is training for that.
 

cornflake

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Heh. This is a story about one of the pickup centers -- they're near colleges, atm, but anyone can use them; my friend uses the one near her all the time. Stuff gets delivered like, same day usually and you can bring stuff you want to return back and just pass it over the counter and they handle it.

The 4,000-square-foot space, which will be staffed, will be located at 40 Wilbur Cross Way in Mansfield and seeks to tap more heavily into the college student market. Amazon also has a business targeting textbook rentals.

As an additional incentive, Amazon Prime Student and Prime members will receive free, one-day pickup on "over two million items when shipped to this location," Amazon said.

Amazon@Storrs will be open 9 a.m. to 9 p.m. during the week and noon to 9 p.m. on weekends.

Since 2015, Amazon has opened pickup locations in 12 college communities including UConn and has plans for three more in 2016

This is a story about the grocery stores; it discusses the shoplifting concerns, along with a lot of other stuff.
 

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You're right that the majority of book sales happen online, but there's still a good portion of book sales which are made in physical shops: about one in three, if I remember rightly.

I may be a fogey, but I really don't like shopping for books online. That only works for me when I already know what book I'm looking for.

I just can't browse properly. I want to drag novels off the shelf on a whim and poke my nose into them for a page or two to see if the writing slurps me in. I want to drift around, sniffing out the nebulous edges of what I might feel like reading tonight, until I find something that fits. I want to speed-date a bunch of books, then take a stranger home with me.

And I am probably not the only one. I read about a bookstore chain (I think in the UK) that started thriving again by making a few changes to how they operated. First: No technical or self-help books; they only stock the sorts of books that people want to browse through. Second: Let the employees decide what books to order for the store; they know what their local customers are buying and asking for.
 

Laer Carroll

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The overall trend for B&N may be overall down, but I suspect that this is because so many are poorly placed or not well run.

My local B&N in the eleven years I've visited once a week seems to be upward or at least not suffering. No matter when I go (and being retired these last few years I go a lot of different times) it's full of people. Different people at different times. It is in the middle of several popular businesses. A high school two blocks away. Two restaurants on one side. A super-popular burger place in front of it. A stadium-seating theater behind it. A shopping mall one block away (with huge FREE parking). One block over a couple dozen small and one big department store. And this is just a tenth of the businesses of which it is smack dab in the middle.

Indie and used-book stores are also well represented in the next city over. On one block in the center of the downtown shopping area are three bookstores. A specialty store (mysteries, romance, sci-fi/fantasy, historicals, more) with helpful knowledgeable clerks. Across the street a good used-book store. A popular comics book store at the end of the block. Eleven years and they are still there.

As far as ebooks are concerned, the statistics I've read over the years, as late as last week, suggest that the market for them has plateaued after years of growth. They are not diminishing, except in comparison to print books. Those have been improving for the last several decades, with periodic down cycles which usually go up after a few years.

I'm lucky enough to live right across the street from my area's public library. Libraries in different parts of the country have been suffering. But some are thriving. That seems to be the case of mine. Partly because they have worked to improve in the eleven years I've been a member. Part of this is because they are taking advantage of new technology. They have a couple dozen computers with online access in the front and a fast wi-fi system for those who want to bring their laptop. They have and monthly refresh four shelves of front-out display books near the entrance. There's a dedicated teen section with generous seating. The upper floor is all a big children's room. And so on.

Doom and gloom new stories are popular. From my vantage point this is not the case with the book industry.
 
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Norman D Gutter

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Wal-Mart has what they call a "dark stores" program, where a group in Wal-Mart helps to find tenants for stores they have closed or relocated from. I might check my contacts there this week and see if I can find a specific contact for that.
 

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I may be a fogey, but I really don't like shopping for books online. That only works for me when I already know what book I'm looking for.

I just can't browse properly. I want to drag novels off the shelf on a whim and poke my nose into them for a page or two to see if the writing slurps me in. I want to drift around, sniffing out the nebulous edges of what I might feel like reading tonight, until I find something that fits. I want to speed-date a bunch of books, then take a stranger home with me.

And I am probably not the only one. I read about a bookstore chain (I think in the UK) that started thriving again by making a few changes to how they operated. First: No technical or self-help books; they only stock the sorts of books that people want to browse through. Second: Let the employees decide what books to order for the store; they know what their local customers are buying and asking for.

I'm the same, jj. I much prefer browsing through real books I can pick up and look through. I find I make better choices this way, too.

As far as ebooks are concerned, the statistics I've read over the years, as late as last week, suggest that the market for them has plateaued after years of growth. They are not diminishing, except in comparison to print books. Those have been improving for the last several decades, with periodic down cycles which usually go up after a few years.

The last time I saw any reliable figures e-book the numbers of books sold were down by quite a lot, as well as being down in proportion to print editions' sales. I'm in the UK, though, so things might be different here.

ETA: It's also pertinent to note that e-books make up only a tiny portion of the market, compared to print editions. I'll see if I can find some figures.
 

Laer Carroll

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I'm the same, jj. I much prefer browsing through real books I can pick up and look through. I find I make better choices this way, too.

I'm with JJ and Old Hack on this. Amazon and B&N have a Look Inside feature where you can read the first 10% or so of a book. That helps if I only want to get a feel for the writing and its content, but being able to riffle through the entire book gives me info a digital sample cannot. Plus, there's the sensual feel of a book, its weight and look, and maybe even the smell of it.

The last time I saw any reliable figures e-book the numbers of books sold were down by quite a lot, as well as being down in proportion to print editions' sales. I'm in the UK, though, so things might be different here.

If there is a drop off in ebook titles and sales, it could be because for a while ebooks were a novelty item. Then the newness wore off. Don't know. I regularly read Publishers Weekly, but even there its hard to finding reliable stats.

It's also pertinent to note that e-books make up only a tiny portion of the market, compared to print editions.

Journos have come up with some outrageous speculations about ebooks, periodically declaring the death of print books Real Soon Now. But though they have some advantages over print books, what many overlook are the advantages that "pbooks" have over ebooks.

One is that printing is a very high-tech field. (People consider it low-tech because we are so familiar with it that the tech underpinnings are invisible to us - but not to engineers.) Machinery and procedures for making paper, and printing and binding books, has been improving constantly. Software improvement is another major area. Nowadays books are stored in standard digital formats based on XML, an international standard, rather than on metal slugs. Turning out new editions, in new formats (hardback, trade paperback, and mass-market paperback - and ebooks), is almost a matter of clicking a button to choose which one.

Printing is also a mature field. Take fonts as just one example. They have been evolving for literally centuries, and in the last few decades psychologists have joined the arts to help font designers make seemingly minuscule changes which nevertheless make text easier to read.

No, pbooks are not dinosaurs doomed to die. Nor, I suspect, is B&N.
 
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Sheryl Nantus

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Let's not forget that a LOT of books just can't be virtual.

Coloring books, children's books... a lot of them can't be bought without someone actually touching the covers and looking at a printed copy. Not everyone can or wants to embrace ebooks, cheap readers or not.

Is B&N having troubles? Sure... like most other businesses when money is tight, people aren't going to buy books. But it's not the sh$tstorm like Borders, no matter what the drive-by posters might say. There will always been a need for physical bookstores to exist and those naysayers who predicted the death of print will keep on whining as they have for the past decade or so.

Same whining, different day. And those who want B&N to fail are usually those who figured print would die with ebooks. Whoops.

JMO, YMMV
 

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If there is a drop off in ebook titles and sales, it could be because for a while ebooks were a novelty item. Then the newness wore off. Don't know. I regularly read Publishers Weekly, but even there its hard to finding reliable stats.

There has been a definite drop in e-book sales over the last year or so. I don't know why, but there has been. There have been quite a few articles about it in the trade press.

Nowadays books are stored in standard digital formats based on XML, an international standard, rather than on metal slugs. Turning out new editions, in new formats (hardback, trade paperback, and mass-market paperback - and ebooks), is almost a matter of clicking a button to choose which one.

You can definitely produce a print book by dumping a text into a template and sending it to print. You'll not get a quality product by doing so, though. Good trade publishers pay for typesetting because it makes a book noticeably better. It would be great if they could save the money they spend here, but doing without the services of a proper typesetter is a hugely false economy.
 
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