Ending sentences with prepositions

Umgowa

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I have a sentence where I say " He met with Ajax Electronics, the prospect he had an appointment with." This is the way people talk. It sounds normal. I know that technically I should say "He met with Ajax Electronics, the prospect with which he had an appointment." But that is not the way people talk. That would sound so unnatural it would halt the flow of the picture I am creating. Any thoughts you have here would be welcome.
 

Marlys

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Ending a sentence with a preposition is fine. If you want a reference, here's one from CMoS.

But I agree with Helix that your example is unwieldy--you don't need both met and appointment.
 

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I have a sentence where I say " He met with Ajax Electronics, the prospect he had an appointment with." This is the way people talk. It sounds normal. I know that technically I should say "He met with Ajax Electronics, the prospect with which he had an appointment." But that is not the way people talk. That would sound so unnatural it would halt the flow of the picture I am creating. Any thoughts you have here would be welcome.

There is nothing in English grammar that forbids ending a sentence with a preposition; this is a bull shit rule invented by Victorian grammar idiots who wanted to make English work like Latin.

English is not Latin.

English writers and speakers have been ending sentences with prepositions since Beowulf.

Go with your ear. And remember that, as you imply, dialog should be written the way the characters would actually speak.

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Does that sentence include a tautology? Meeting, appointment -- one would do, surely?

You can meet people without having an appointment, but it does seem a bit redundant.
 

Curlz

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I know that technically I should say "He met with Ajax Electronics, the prospect with which he had an appointment." But that is not the way people talk.
The issue with "no preposition at the end" is about 200 year old, and has been solved there and then. It was a short-lived and old-fashioned idea, no need to dwell on it.

"That is the type of arrant pedantry up with which I shall not put". ;)
 

Desire

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Aside from barring past prepositions, except for prior to next to circa. ;)
 

Tsu Dho Nimh

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I have a sentence where I say " He met with Ajax Electronics, the prospect he had an appointment with." This is the way people talk. It sounds normal. I know that technically I should say But that is not the way people talk. That would sound so unnatural it would halt the flow of the picture I am creating. Any thoughts you have here would be welcome.

Ending sentences with prepositions is nonsense up with which I will not put!

It is grammatical, and idiomatic.

Your sentence has problems, but not the preposition. It's awkwardly worded.
 

Umgowa

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There is nothing in English grammar that forbids ending a sentence with a preposition; this is a bull shit rule invented by Victorian grammar idiots who wanted to make English work like Latin.

English is not Latin.

English writers and speakers have been ending sentences with prepositions since Beowulf.

Go with your ear. And remember that, as you imply, dialog should be written the way the characters would actually speak.

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You can meet people without having an appointment, but it does seem a bit redundant.

This is one of the most helpful responses I've ever received. Thank you. It prompts me to put down a quote from (I believe) Winston Churchill . . . "Ending a sentence with a preposition is something up with which I will not put." . . . Kind of makes your point
 

WWWalt

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technically I should say "He met with Ajax Electronics, the prospect with which he had an appointment." But that is not the way people talk.

"The way people talk" is not a universal constant. An educated and fussy narrator might well phrase the sentence that way (though this person would surely not claim that a person met with a company: the person met with one or more representatives of the company).

You can meet people without having an appointment, but it does seem a bit redundant.

Likewise, you can have an appointment with someone and then not meet with them, so it's not at all redundant.

But that doesn't mean both pieces of information are important enough to include in this sentence. The meeting probably is; the appointment, perhaps not. "He met with his prospect, Ajax Electronics" might be all the information you need to convey. If you are more accurate and specific, such as "He met with three salesmen from Ajax Electronics," the reader will presume an appointment was involved, since such meetings tend not to happen by chance.
 

mccardey

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Likewise, you can have an appointment with someone and then not meet with them, so it's not at all redundant.
What if I have an appointment with someone - say, I dunno, my dentist - and I totally forget about it? Is that a redundant appointment? And if it is, do I still have to pay for it? Asking for a friend.
 
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Bufty

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If you forget about the appointment and a friend wants to pay the dentist - lucky you. :snoopy:

What if I have an appointment with someone - say, I dunno, my dentist - and I totally forget about it? Is that a redundant appointment? And if it is, do I still have to pay for it? Asking for a friend.
 

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I personally find ending a sentence with a preposition kind of distracting, but if I'm being honest, I *am a bit of a grammar snob, haha. I'm often tempted, however, to do the same, and end a sentence with a preposition, just because it reads so naturally. I think that much can be gained, though, by re-working the sentence altogether. For your example, if I may:

"Ajax Electronics was a tempting prospect and he decided to meet with them to see exactly what they had on offer."

Or something to that effect. Either way, I think that choosing the less convenient path usually pays off. But I'm the epitome of an amateur, so take everything I say with a big ol' grain of salt, haha. Whatever you do, keep writing!