DOES BEING A WRITER = BEING POOR?

NickIandolo · Sep 30, 2016

Hey Fellow Writers,

Lately, I've been feeling pretty low about my so-called writing career, or lack thereof. Part of it has to do with watching my artist friends (filmmakers, writers, graphic designers, actors, VFX artists, etc.) all seem to be moving forward in their careers while I'm hopelessly stuck in the mud (as it seems).

The other part is that my financial, familial, and property ownership obligations are all slipping into the dumper.

I have a very supportive wife but she has put up with 16 years of my not being able to achieve any kind of financial stability let alone success. I have a decent house but every month of my lack of income brings us closer to foreclosure. I have a child who I feel like I'm being a terrible father to because I can't properly provide for her.

This is NOT how I expected my life to be at this point 6 months away from turning 50!

And the irony is that I've been looking for all kinds of work, not just writing-related. With all of my experience, the least I should be able to get is a copywriting job! However, between age discrimination and long-term unemployment discrimination, coupled with some over-the-top creative digital footprints that I cannot eliminate or bury from the Internet (stuff I'm actually proud of but my wife fears that companies think that that work is too unprofessional to risk hiring me over), I can't even get that copywriting job!

Let alone anything like a Senior Communications Director or a PR Director.

I'm un-hirable it seems!

And what really burns me is that I thought I'd be way farther along than this by now. I believe I'm pretty talented. I know I have a ton of experience. My resume is pretty good despite a lot of job hopping, mostly due to companies foolishly going under, and consulting work!

I never grew up with a lot of money. I had friends who did have money and got to do things I only dreamed about: like traveling the world at young ages, owing cars which made it easier to date girls, not being saddled with decades of college debt freeing them to travel and live wherever they wanted like NYC or LA, having great teeth because their parents could afford braces, and lots more stuff that I'm pretty resentful about.

But as I got older things got better and I started making headway in my life around the dot-com days. A nice economy made it possible for everyone to move up in life. Those were the best days of my single life! Then economy crashed and sent me down again. But at least I found a woman who loves me and supported me. And I've done all kinds of wrong by her by not giving back to her what she deserves!

And what do I do? I choose a profession that pays no money!

Now I know that authors like Herman Melville never made a dime from their books. He was a customs agent for his day job.

And I've spoken with many authors (most of them self-published) at comic cons and they all have days jobs, which they tell you not to quit! And a lot of those day jobs are not even writing-related.

It also seems that getting any kind of writing job is next to impossible.

Can't seem to get a news writing job because of several factors: too old, no degree in journalism, have not lived in New York or LA, no job history in broadcasting.
Can't seem to get a screenwriting or TV-writing job because of several factors: too old, have not worked as a screenwriter's assistant, do not live in LA, no screenwriting agent.
Can't seem to get a marketing writing job because of several factors: too old, no degree in marketing, not pretty/handsome enough, not connected to industry professionals.
Can't seem to get a PR writing job because of several factors: too old, no PR degree, no work history in any PR firms—despite actual PR writing experience.
Can't seem to get freelance writing jobs because of one factor: no clients want to pay!

This list can go on forever.

By the way, I do have a degree in English that I'm actually proud of and have had to defend from real ******* (Pride & Prejudice style) who dismiss it completely out of hand as a nothing degree!

Now I know that the "too old" thing comes up a lot. And I do believe it really is a problem because of one glaring reason:

I should have figured out what my career was going to be at a young age, and taken all the steps necessary to follow that path while I was still free and unbound.

But there was NOTHING as far as career counseling for people like me in the late 1980s/early 1990s!

Even the Internet would have saved my career but it didn't exist then!

If I could have learned the inside secret that you had to be a screenwriter's assistant before you could become a working screenwriter in Hollywood, and to get that you had to be at least be a PA, and you had to have moved out to LA first, well that's what I would have done!

But there was nothing by way of information that was available to make that possible.

Also, becoming a successful published author. The steps involved are enormous. There was no information of where to go and who to connect with and how to break into publishing back in the late 80s early 90s! Now I can only hope that I could at least get a book published in before I'm 60.

I've tried self-publishing and all it seemed to so was suck up my money and make me look foolish/amateurish in front of literary agents.

No agent, no career. And really, you have to be considerably young to actually convince these agents you're worth the risk. I've been to pitchfests and the writers that do get noticed are all the pretty/handsome young ones, not the old farts. Tell me I'm wrong! Sure experience is way more valuable but agents really want longevity in a client and eye-candy to put up at the signing tables and panel discussions.

Same is true for actors, ask Maggie Gyllenhall who couldn't get a role playing the love interest of a 55 year male actor because she was too old at 35!

Business is even worse for writers and anyone pushing 50!

A resume these days can't say that you've done a ton of stuff all over the place—even if the experience is relevant. Either you've worked through a specific career path, e.g.: marketing intern, assistant to marketing director, marketing writer, marketing manager, senior marketing manager, director of marketing, vp of marketing; or you are not taken seriously when you try for a job that should be appropriate for your age and experience.

Now I know a lot of you are going to argue that:

You're never too old to change careers
You're never too old to be a published author (look at Sheri S. Tepper)
Age is just a number, etc.
You have to make your own opportunities in life
Life isn't fair

Plus a lot more counter arguments.

And for the most part I generally agree. But lately, I'm just feeling that I've completely wasted my entire life by not having a direction and a plan to get me there at a young age, when I should have.

How I long for the dot-com days to return and right these discriminatory wrongs!

So I guess being a writer means being poor!

Not to mention that even if you do get book deals (and agents), they pay next to nothing in royalties and you have to do all the marketing work yourself. So unless you want to write vile erotic BDSM sensational stuff like E.L. James (which I'm sure lots of people are trying to copy now, saturating that market), any real success as a writer is probably a pipe dream.

I sure would like to hear some ideas on how to break out of this mess—if it's even possible.

Oh, and I'm not giving up writing either (I love writing too much) but I don't think it's a viable career path any more!

Thanks,
Nick

A.E.Fisher · Sep 30, 2016

So, ok. I completely understand the frustration you are feeling. Instead of responding line by line, I'm going to give you my honest opinion.

#1--copywriting is not the same as writing your own material, and the skills involved are different. Most copywriting jobs are for web, and writing for the web means you have to understand (and be able to apply) SEO principles. You have to be able to write for a wide variety of subjects and industries, and in my experience, you also have to be able to turn around pieces quickly. When I'm contracted to write a blog post for a business I normally make $30 for ~350 words, and the piece is needed within 48 hours of request. Without solid experience in copywriting you're unlikely to find paid work doing it. Catch 22, I know.

#2--If you're struggling to provide for your family, suck it up and find an interim job that pays the bills. Tons of writers work in addition to writing, and the majority that I've spoken with are employed full time in a non-writing capacity. Even the writers that I work with through my own freelance business tend to have some form of employment outside of writing. Unless you're JK Rowling/James Patterson/Stephen King, writing full-time is just not feasible for most people.

#3--Taking on outside employment doesn't mean you've failed. It means you can put your ego aside and do what needs to be done for your family. If you truly feel that you aren't giving your family a moderately comfortable life, then you should be seeking employment as well as continuing to write.

#4--Please, I mean this with no offence at all, but your attitude seems to be quite defeated. Understandable, but employers see that, and they don't like to hire people with thunder clouds over their heads. If you've spent most of your adult life trying to make a go as a writer then you aren't going to be able to find the same level of position as someone that has been working on a career path for 10-15 years. You're starting from the bottom, and that's ok. Stay as positive as possible, and again, swallow the ego. You may be surprised with the path you end up finding!

And good luck. I really, genuinely hope that you find something that makes you happy.

chompers · Sep 30, 2016

I'm going to be very blunt here. All it sounds like is excuses. The fault lies with everyone else. Change your attitude and maybe you might go farther.

lizmonster · Sep 30, 2016

NickIandolo said:
And really, you have to be considerably young to actually convince these agents you're worth the risk. I've been to pitchfests and the writers that do get noticed are all the pretty/handsome young ones, not the old farts. Tell me I'm wrong! Sure experience is way more valuable but agents really want longevity in a client and eye-candy to put up at the signing tables and panel discussions.

On this point, I will tell you you're wrong. I was 49 when I signed with my agent, and 50 when I sold a trilogy. Your appearance and your age are not relevant; the book you're pitching is.

I'm sorry you're so frustrated. That comes through loud and clear, and I wish you better luck than you've had. I can't speak to journalism (although as a reader I get the impression that journalism as a profession is shrinking very, very fast) or copyrighting, but you're not going to age yourself out of fiction writing.

gettingby · Sep 30, 2016

Okay, I'm not going to get into everything you said in your post, but I did want to offer some advice. I've worked in writing and publishing my whole life. I have a long background in newspapers. If you want that kind of work, pitch the editors interesting story ideas. They don't have to be hard news. Maybe your neighbor gave up mowing his lawn and instead just got a bunch of goats to eat his grass to keep it short. But wait, you heard about this on NPR. This is how you can make a national story local. Editors at a daily love Sunday features like that. You'll probably get between $50 and $350 for a newspaper story. In my experience, the pay can be higher for magazines, depending on where you are pitching. Pitching stories is really what it's all about if you want to be successful. When I was working as a full-time freelance journalist, I wrote more pitch letters than I did stories. You've just got to keep your eyes open and pitch regularly.

For years, I tried really hard to break into this place. I was sending them story idea after story idea and kept getting turned down. One night at a party, people were talking about something that was interesting and I hadn't heard much about. Later that night, while slightly intoxicated, I wrote my pitch and sent it. They wanted the story. Out of all the stories I pitched this place, that's what they wanted. And this one story did have an impact on my career.

I don't know how often you are pitching your story ideas, but I would say send out at least two a week. That's what I was doing.

Another way to break into newspapers is to be a stringer. Stringers get regular work if they prove to be at least decent writers. Basically, the editors will send you out to cover the more boring things like city council and school committee meetings. But sometimes interesting stuff can happen at those meetings. One time I was sent to cover a meeting as a stringer. It was a long time ago, but I think it was the historical society or conservation commission. There was a small issue going on that the editors had gotten wind of so they sent me to check it out. They didn't think it was big enough to put staff resources into. And the best thing that could have happened to a stringer happened that day. All of the committee members resigned. No one was at the meeting. It turned out the little issue was a big issue and I got to cover it. Do a good job with something like that, editors will notice you.

I've had stringer positions lead to staff positions. And it helps to negotiate pay for a full-time position if you have already proven to the editors what you can do. But, seriously, it's not to hard to get stringer work. Have you looked into that?

I wouldn't bother with the content mills, personally. I've never done that kind of work, but the pay is a joke and so is a lot of the content. It's just not my thing. And it won't do much in terms of helping your career.

The other thing you mention is being an author. Have you written a book? I don't see agents and publishers only interested in the young, pretty people. A good story is a good story. That's all they are really looking for.

I'm don't think you need a backup plan, but you might need more of a plan than you have. What's your focus? What is it you want to be writing? What have you been writing for the last 16 years?

I don't know if any of this is helpful. It might be stuff you already know. Feel free to PM me or leave another post on this thread if you think I might be able to help. I'm happy to look at one of your pitch letters if you want.

grandma2isaac · Sep 30, 2016

I agree with what has already been said. Negativity breeds negative outcomes.
All Stephen King ever wanted to do was be a writer. He had to teach for years to try to keep bills paid and food on the table. There was not always enough money.
Jk Rowling was on state funded subsidies for a while as her husband was abusive, and when she left him, he chose not to pay for his child as a way of punishing her.
Many brilliant writers have done whatever they could to pay the bills, and wrote during the evenings or weekends. It was necessary, and they did it.
From what I have seen in the forums, most of the writers here have full time jobs (sometimes piecemeal jobs or multiples) to pay for the "now" while they write for their future dreams.
With a degree and the plan of becoming published, most people are not interested in a menial job. Get one. Your family in the present will mean more to you than having several books published and plenty of money if your family isn't there to share it.
Do whatever you can for your wife. Not everyone stays while you figure out your dream. She is something special...treat her that way by taking some of the burden from her shoulders.
Most of all, good luck to you. A decent rant is healthy sometimes, but only if it leads you to answers.

Helix · Sep 30, 2016

All right.

Now you've had a whinge, pointed the finger, and compared yourself to an actor who can't get a role because Hollywood has double standards about women and men, what practical steps will you take to get you where you want to be?

Dennis E. Taylor · Sep 30, 2016

I'd like to take a slightly different angle on things. One of the problems, when things are down, is that it looks like forever. No way to change it, no relief on the horizon, so much past behind you and so little future ahead of you.

That's a mirage.

I've had times in my life when I've thought I shouldn't bother doing something because it was basically too late. In my 30s, I decided not to take night courses towards getting an IT degree because, well, my life was almost done. Seriously.
So you're 49 and what's the point of trying to get a writing career going? Well, I started writing at 57. Put my first self-pub up at 58, and my first trade-pub up at 59. You've got a huge head start on me. And the thing about opportunities and such is that they come quickly and without warning. You have to be figuratively on the balls of your feet, ready to jump aboard. And that means you have to always be looking for opportunities, not sitting around being morose. Yeah, you might get nowhere for a few years, but if you're learning, trying different things, you're not only eliminating dead ends, you're learning what works, what doesn't, and where to concentrate future energies. Sooner or later, something will click. Be ready to grab it with both hands.

Layla Nahar · Sep 30, 2016

I'd like to recommend Underearner's Anonymous. I'm a lot like you, except that I never managed to have a family, but I can tell that you're intelligent, and you're educated, so the lack of earning is part of a deeper complex. I'm finding some help from UA. It really sucks to be smart but still not making it...

Cindyt · Sep 30, 2016

Dennis E. Taylor said:
I'd like to take a slightly different angle on things. One of the problems, when things are down, is that it looks like forever. No way to change it, no relief on the horizon, so much past behind you and so little future ahead of you.

That's a mirage.

I've had times in my life when I've thought I shouldn't bother doing something because it was basically too late. In my 30s, I decided not to take night courses towards getting an IT degree because, well, my life was almost done. Seriously.
So you're 49 and what's the point of trying to get a writing career going? Well, I started writing at 57. Put my first self-pub up at 58, and my first trade-pub up at 59. You've got a huge head start on me. And the thing about opportunities and such is that they come quickly and without warning. You have to be figuratively on the balls of your feet, ready to jump aboard. And that means you have to always be looking for opportunities, not sitting around being morose. Yeah, you might get nowhere for a few years, but if you're learning, trying different things, you're not only eliminating dead ends, you're learning what works, what doesn't, and where to concentrate future energies. Sooner or later, something will click. Be ready to grab it with both hands.

ITA. I'm 60, and my WIP is the only manuscript I've brought to the first draft. Now I'm putting it through the third revision. I was born poor and lived poor and will highly likely die poor and I don't care. I'm having a ball using the gift God gave me. I do wonder sometimes why I waited so late and all I can say is it wasn't time. I have several more book ideas and probably not enough years to write them all because that's the way it is.

grandma2isaac · Oct 1, 2016

I truly admire some of the people who have given advise. It appears that a lot of people start late. I just turned 52. Nothing published. Still working on several WIPs. I think maybe the best way to make sure that what you write feels real and important to you.If you don't feel it no one else will. I know a couple of people who wish to be writer's because they think it is easy. It most definitely is not. But seeing words that came from your mind and feeling the power in them can be magical.

James D. Macdonald · Oct 1, 2016

I can't talk about much besides fiction, because that's where I live in the writing world.

I will say that nowhere in the standard cover letter to you need to mention your age, employment history, or much of anything else. All that really matters is those black marks on the white page.

So: write the best stories you can; submit them to the best markets you can. Repeat.

And remember: the monetary rewards in the freelance life are irregular and unpredictable. The monetary rewards in the writing life are small, and come at glacial pace. Combine those two to find the expected monetary rewards of the freelance writing life.

Filigree · Oct 1, 2016

I'm turning 51 next week. I have been writing fiction since 1987, a bit longer if you count D&D modules and bad poetry. One of my degrees is in technical writing. I make most of my living through words, one way or another...and have done so for at least 20 years. There is no shame in having a dayjob, to smooth the financial hits. Everyone hits snags. How you deal with those delays and difficulties, is a big factor in your endurance as a writer.

jimmymc · Oct 2, 2016

Elance.com or Fiver, with a degree in technical writing you shouldn't have a problem earning good money.

juniper · Oct 2, 2016

A.E.Fisher said:
#3--Taking on outside employment doesn't mean you've failed. It means you can put your ego aside and do what needs to be done for your family. If you truly feel that you aren't giving your family a moderately comfortable life, then you should be seeking employment as well as continuing to write.

Agree with this. I really think this is the way most fiction writers function.

Your outside employment doesn't have to be writing based, if you're not able to find something like that. Take an hourly wage job that gives you time to think, dream, scribble some ideas down. Maybe a security job. Anything that offers regular income and benefits.

I work at a hospital in a job that's below my education and abilities. But it's rather easy, I meet a lot of interesting people and situations (I work in ER), and most days have some free time during my shift to browse internet, work on my blog, etc. My job provides good income and health insurance etc. I'm helping to support my family, which is the most important thing for me.

NickIandolo said:
I have a very supportive wife but she has put up with 16 years of my not being able to achieve any kind of financial stability let alone success. I have a decent house but every month of my lack of income brings us closer to foreclosure. I have a child who I feel like I'm being a terrible father to because I can't properly provide for her.

You have to decide what your priorities are. If it's providing for your family, then make that financial stability #1 behind your writing (heresy maybe, but also reality).

Wishing you well.

Filigree · Oct 2, 2016

With Elance or Fiverr, you might earn money, but the chances are it won't be good...and you stand to work with some rather idiotic and cheap clients. Elance and Fiverr are not all bad, but are rife with folks who work at really low bids. Look in the actual career sections of Craigslist (a slight step up) or more reputable career sites. I got three of my recent commercial writing gigs through Craigslist or Careerbuilder. The only problem is the latest one could easily employ me for 60 hours a week, but I need a life and personal writing time.

My advice is to find something that you can do or learn easily, with enough pay to keep things afloat. And keep writing!

realityfix · Oct 3, 2016

Okay, time for a weird spin on writing, priorities, and families. First, let me tell you a little about myself so you'll understand that I'm not some pompous jerk peering down from my ivory tower and giving noteworthy advice to another member of the down trodden. I have a college degree in Geology and worked as an Environmental Geologist for about 13 years. Found myself laid off and divorced in the same year. Broke, bitter, and on the verge of being one of those men that lives in their mothers' basements, I found a job in a major supermarket in the Worcester, Massachusetts area. I stocked groceries at night and hated every minute of it but it felt good to pay some of those bills and be self reliant. Worked in the Deli and stepped down to part time to spend more time with my kids. Charged too much on my plastic and, let me tell you from personal experience, that is not a smart thing to do. Along the way, I became a Certified Pharmacy Technician (never used it) and got my teaching license in Middle School Science (never used that either although I was a substitute teacher for about three years and made seventy bucks a day while still working about 25 hours a week at the supermarket. Now, I manage their Seafood Department where I set sales records and build great relationships with my repeat customers. Hey, life still isn't easy but I have enough breathing room that I can see the sarcastic irony of the big picture and have a little fun with it.

I've enjoyed writing since maybe the third grade. Over the years, I've churned out drafts of short stories and a least one novel. All of it was Sword and Sorcery fan fiction done in the style of Robert E. Howard because that was my only fictional reading. Along the way, I learned to appreciate SF, Fantasy, Horror, Collected Essays, and poetry. I guess writing has been a part of my life as long as I can remember even though I never made a dime from any of it. My only claim to fame is I wrote a draft short story in my senior year of high school that was part SF and part Horror and I let my English teacher proofread and edit it (I still have it somewhere). She showed it to all the high school English teachers and they said I should make the edits and submit it but I was rather embarrassed by the whole thing and told everyone that I was going to go to college to major in Geology. So, enough about myself.

First, and this will sound strange, writing is like searching for the Holy Grail or looking for love. We all have this vision of the Grail and what a perfect Soul Mate should be but, after a while, we can't see the forest through the trees. Everyone I've met on AW would love to be a full time, well paid author but, as you have already observed, the playing field isn't always level. Some of us know people in the writing business. Some of us have supportive family and friends. It's different for each and every one of us. I guess for me it isn't the final destination that floats my boat as much as it is the journey itself and the choices that I've made along the way.

As far as priorities go, take care of your family first, pay your debts the best you can, and feed your dreams through your writing. Let me make a bold statement, and I don't even know you, even if you never get published and your only readers are your wife and your daughter as she grows, you're a better person for your effort. Some of the greatest historical authors never really financially gained from their efforts during their life time but the world knew who they were in the end and so did their families.

After all that I've been through, my family is really all that I leave the world. I could be filthy rich but if my kids only remember me as someone only focused on personal ambition and the accumulation of toys than I'd rather be as poor as a church mouse. Both of my sons start college next year. I've already told them that, even if I'm never published, my drafts and notebooks full of ideas and research are all theirs to do with as they please.

So, as a man who turned 54 back in August, I leave you with a pearl of wisdom from a Tom Cruise movie (is that even possible I think to myself). Toward the end of the Last Samurai, Ken Watanabe's character asks Cruise's character a pivotal question that I think your post is asking the AW community and that is "can a man (okay this includes everyone else) change his destiny?" Cruise's character answers "I think a man does what he can until his destiny reveals itself." I guess this is the MO that I currently wrap my life around. Best of luck to you and your pursuit of the writing grail. The AW community really can offer a lot of advice and information. Be involved.

NickIandolo · Oct 3, 2016

Well then, I guess I'll just try harder!

If a lot of you thought that I might be having a "mid-life crisis", you're probably right! :e2drown:

Sometimes I don't do too well when I see others enjoying success that I should be as well. Especially, if I think that they don't deserve it: e.g. hack writers who get their gigs/success by being young, well-connected, and/or writing smut that sells (like Fifty Shades...).

I read a nice blog post about a failed Hollywood screenwriter who went through all kinds of rejection, empty promises, and all-out being mislead and beat on by agents, producers, and the industry as a whole. He finally gave up and is actually happier. He still writes but not for Hollywood anymore, only himself—and not screenplays either.

http://scriptshadow.net/guest-article-confessions-of-a-failed-screenwriter/

As I was reading this, I thought I had written it!

So many things were similar between what he went through and what I've gone through from a screenwriting perspective.

My first taste of Hollywood rejection was getting back my spec Star Trek: The Next Generation scripts with a no-thanks attached to them! They were and still are the only ones to have ever accepted unsolicited material. Right then and there I should have packed up and moved to LA at 22 but I let girlfriends, family obligations, and fear keep me from doing it when I was young. Instead, I tried for the last 10 years to try to be a screenwriter from Boston. I even had a so-called agent (based in Hollywood) who did nothing for me but make me spend money sending out scripts and book manuscripts. Nothing ever came of them, and one day she disappeared and I never heard from her again.

So after countless query letters, pitches to film execs and agents, writing two books on screenwriting myself, being a part of many New England film organizations that never amounted to anything, being on local screenwriting panels at film festivals, and even producing my own shows for a local cable access TV station, I too have decided to let the whole screenwriting thing go and move on to other writing.

My only real dream of being a writer is to be a science fiction author. I've been writing sci-fi my whole life.

I've written 3 sci-fi novels, countless sci-fi/fantasy/supernatural short stories, 8 screenplays of various genres (sci-fi/supernatural included), travelogues, and an insane amount of blog & social media posts—which I'm sure many of you have done the latter as well.

Professionally, I've done everything that many of you have suggested above from: marketing and communications writing, copywriting, B2B/B2C writing, SEO & SEM writing, technical writing, proposal writing, sales letters, datasheets, promo-flyers, case studies, research projects, CapEx reports, banner ads, direct sales pieces, journalistic articles, press releases, news papers blurbs, and much, much more!

I've been doing all of that kind of business/corporate work for at least 20 years.

The problem that I listed above was that now that I am pushing 50, I can't seem to get even these kinds of writing-related jobs any more.

One of the best leads was a great interview with a 29 year old man at a tech consulting company who needed everything that I could do as a copywriter. I could not have been more perfect for that job or that company. The company culture was about fitness, movies, the Boston scene, etc. All of which, I am. The only reason why I didn't get the job was that he was 29 and I am 49. And I did everything during the interview that the job counselors tell you to do to buck him up and make sure that he didn't feel threatened by my age.

"I'm here to support you."
"How can I help you succeed in your job?"
"My job is to make you look good to your boss.
"I'm your lieutenant, I'll do whatever you need me to do!"

And still that wasn't enough to assuage him from his fears of working with me, when I would have been his greatest asset with my experience.

Another hiring manager wouldn't hire me because she thought that I was too long-term unemployed, despite the wealth of contract jobs on my resume where I worked my butt off for 60+ hours a week at a time! Her dismissive attitude was almost worthy of a movie villain!

Another hiring manager, who was my age and who didn't care about my contract work vs lack of so-called full-time work, absolutely loved me. I knew I could have gotten that copywriting job but after months of follow-up, they decided to put it on hold!

At first I thought that it was a nice way of saying that they hired someone else but people I've spoken with don't believe that's the case. During the interviews, I showed them all kinds of possibilities from my extensive portfolio of marketing collateral, blogs, promo-videos, and other things that I could do for them. So maybe, ironically I got them so confused as to what they really needed, that they have to re-evaluate the the whole thing!

But that still doesn't get me employed and put money back into my back account (or on my over-drawn credit card!).

I don't know. I seem to be a bit lost now. Not knowing where to turn for some actionable advice.

Here's what I've learned so far:

I don't want any more freelance writing gigs. I've spent way to much time writing proposals, statements of work, and project evaluations for clients who say they want professional stuff only to back out because they're not willing to actually pay for it! They think they can't get quality writing work for pennies! Even the time wasted writing these job prospecting documents, I should have been paid for. I'm sick of it. The same goes for journalism. I've written for magazines where I've gotten paid next to nothing for heavily researched articles. One publisher pays only $25 whether the article is 500 words or 5000 words (which I've written more than that for them)!
I know that unlike my friends in Hollywood, I'm never going to be as successful as they are in the Entertainment Industry (which includes writing). They moved to LA years ago, neither my wife (46 years old) nor I want to move to LA and we're too old to ever start up a new life, especially out in that youth-obsessed environment. Granted, my friends either work 90+ hours a week, or go through looooong periods of time with no work at all. And that's probably way worse than my current situation. I'm a family guy, I love being with my wife and daughter. I love going to her little soccer games, birthday parties, and other events. I don't want to be away from them all the time—that'd kill me.
I love my house. I really don't want to lose it. I grew up in the crappiest basement apartments and clawed my way up to being a homeowner. The sense of failure losing my house would be greater than any sense of failure as an unsuccessful writer that I could have. So I need to be able to support this home for my family and I. Plus I like my neighbors a lot!
I like exercising in the basement of my house. I follow Mark Lauren's bodyweight training program called You Are Your Own Gym. I don't do running, the gym, or not exercising at all. I like things the way they're set up for me, and I like my privacy.
I'm developing a small press of my own. Now everything that I've read about running a small press basically says it's a lot of work with no payoff and there's no money in it at all. So, if I were to do this, then it's going to be both a little side thing and not for money. I basically want to publish my own sci-fi/fantasy/supernatural anthology with guest writers contributing to it. I also want to do book trailers and ebook conversions. And I want to have tables at comic cons to showcase this stuff. Why? Because I love comic cons and I think having a small press table would be great at them—especially San Diego!
And finally, I want to get represented by a decent agent, traditionally publish my sci-fi novels (even if they take years to get out there), and be invited to speak on panels. All knowing full-well that it will be highly unlikely that I'll ever be able to make a living off of that and the small press.

So that means, I have to find a decent job. My hope was a writing-related job but at this point I'm willing to do other stuff like Web Content Manager, Communications Manager, or Video/Media Producer. All of these, I have skills and experience doing.

But again, my resume and background is all over the place, and with age and long-term unemployment holding me back, it's hard to get out of this mess and find a little financial peace so that I can work on my mind, body, writing, and most importantly take care of my family.

Thank you for all of the wonderful suggestions, insights, and advice!!!

I really think that now trying to live off of being a writer is not realistic at all. Those that actually do are like lottery winners: few and far between.

The rest of us just have to write because we love it.

And work jobs that we can hopefully live with in the meantime! :flag:

Cheers,
Nick

Helix · Oct 3, 2016

NickIandolo said:
Sometimes I don't do too well when I see others enjoying success that I should be as well. Especially, if I think that they don't deserve it: e.g. hack writers who get their gigs/success by being young, well-connected, and/or writing smut that sells (like Fifty Shades...).

Don't deserve it? You have no idea how much work these other writers [Hacks? Really? Dude.] have put into their careers. Jealousy and entitlement are not going to get anyone anywhere. Envy -- well, envy's okay. It can be energising. Jealousy and entitlement need to get in the sea.

grandma2isaac · Oct 3, 2016

Like Helix I believe that you can't judge the worthiness of a person if you have never lived their life. If people buy their offerings, it is because people are hungering for what they are offering. They must have done the work, which implies time was spent. Humilty is something lacking in many people, don't be one of them. We all have short-comings. Only through realizing OUR shortcomings are we able to transcend. Finding fault in others delays our growth.

lizmonster · Oct 3, 2016

Helix said:
Jealousy and entitlement need to get in the sea.

Yes. These will cripple you worse than anything else. And yes, I can say that from experience.

One of the reasons fiction writing is so weird is that everybody's path is different. What the rest of us may see as overnight success is almost certainly the product of years/decades of hard work and rejection, and even if it's not - their life is not your life, and they carry burdens different than yours. It's not just that there's no point in comparing yourself - it's actually counterproductive.

Like I said, I know from experience, and I know how hard it is to shake yourself out of that cycle. But the only other choice is to stop trying, and that's guaranteed to get you the results you don't want.

RightHoJeeves · Oct 4, 2016

The problem that I listed above was that now that I am pushing 50, I can't seem to get even these kinds of writing-related jobs any more.

No bones about it, that sucks. My mum is a 60yo Associate Professor, and has just been let go from the university she works at because the contract for her department ran out. She's always been a razor sharp woman, and for the first time in my life I've seen her suddenly worried about what she's going to do. She's pissed off at herself because she was too complacent in her role, and if she had been a little more saavy and moved around more, she could be a lot more senior.

I don't know what to tell her. I guess you (and she) just have to keep on keepin' on and persevering. As trite as the advice sounds, the only alternative is to give up.

veinglory · Oct 4, 2016

Getting caught in a zone where you are not achieving what you want can be demoralizing. I was in a very similar space when I realized I wasn't going to get on the tenure track and become a professor. The good news is that I looked into some jobs that I would not normally have considered, real left field stuff, and found something I honestly think is even better. So maybe it is worth getting out the virtual job pages for work in your area, or that can be done from home, and circle anything even halfway plausible. You never know where it might lead.

ASeiple · Oct 4, 2016

No, being a writer doesn't equal being poor. That's a myth.

Can't tell you how to fix things, though. Every writer's different. No book is ever a guarantee of success, you just have to keep writing and refining your craft and trying different things until you find the way that works for you.

The world doesn't owe you, or me, or any writer anything. It's up to us all to find our own happiness.

NickIandolo · Oct 4, 2016

Clearly I have some work to do on myself, my thinking, and my attitude.

I'm a flawed person; I know.

I guess I've stop believing in myself lately.

But that's going to change. I don't like being so pessimistic. I'm usually a the glass is half full kind of guy.

I best get to it then!

Thank you all for your advice and insights! I really appreciate it! :hooray:

Cheers,
Nick

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