St. Martin's Press / SMP Swerve

It's not just you. I've heard from many authors in the last week who I speak to on FB who have been trying to find a place for their romance and can't. The options have dried up. It seems like pretty soon romance authors will have no choice but to self-publish. Many authors who are on submission have said the big houses don't even want romance anymore and if they do it's only from certain people. Agents are telling clients they don't want romance because there are limited options for submission and many romance publishers are either closing, have problems where they will likely close, not paying authors, gone dormant for some reason without explanation, or the sales have gotten so bad they can't do anything for you anyway. I'm predicting we will see more closures of romance publishers this year. Would be surprised if not.

I am in a private PM group on FB with other romance authors and some were saying they recently went to a conference and editors there confirmed that many print publishers and bigger houses are not interested in romance because they can't compete with self-published romance books and especially KU. KU dominates romance and many romance readers can't pass up a deal where they get all the books they want for free for 9.99 or whatever the cost a month. Authors not in KU or who price over a certain threshold are being passed over. Many publishers price way over the sweet spot in self-publishing romance which is 2.99-3.99 it seems. The bulk of authors though are selling at 99 cents whether they are in KU or not. Everything seems to come down to price.

But for authors KU is a mess and getting worse. I left it four months ago and glad I did. It's gotten so crowded there. But, back on topic. The issue is right now, self-publishing or mainly AMAZON is dominating romance and it has changed the industry substantially and options are dwindling.

cool pop said:

It's not just you. I've heard from many authors in the last week who I speak to on FB who have been trying to find a place for their romance and can't. The options have dried up. It seems like pretty soon romance authors will have no choice but to self-publish. Many authors who are on submission have said the big houses don't even want romance anymore and if they do it's only from certain people. Agents are telling clients they don't want romance because there are limited options for submission and many romance publishers are either closing, have problems where they will likely close, not paying authors, gone dormant for some reason without explanation, or the sales have gotten so bad they can't do anything for you anyway. I'm predicting we will see more closures of romance publishers this year. Would be surprised if not.

I am in a private PM group on FB with other romance authors and some were saying they recently went to a conference and editors there confirmed that many print publishers and bigger houses are not interested in romance because they can't compete with self-published romance books and especially KU. KU dominates romance and many romance readers can't pass up a deal where they get all the books they want for free for 9.99 or whatever the cost a month. Authors not in KU or who price over a certain threshold are being passed over. Many publishers price way over the sweet spot in self-publishing romance which is 2.99-3.99 it seems. The bulk of authors though are selling at 99 cents whether they are in KU or not. Everything seems to come down to price.

But for authors KU is a mess and getting worse. I left it four months ago and glad I did. It's gotten so crowded there. But, back on topic. The issue is right now, self-publishing or mainly AMAZON is dominating romance and it has changed the industry substantially and options are dwindling.

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Yes I've noticed that agents that used to be super keen on romance now don't even list any romance books on their author stable type page or have it on their wish lists. But even a self publishing type collective where they help you promote with their head author's known name type thing has closed to submissions until 2019 or maybe not even then, according to staff, probably because they have been inundated with submissions after all the small publishers closing.But it's not all doom and gloom some people are still doing very well.
I notice though that the top selling romance books on Amazon these days tend to be from Amazon's trade publishing imprint that you need an agent to submit to though which is kind of ironic. lol

I suggest anyone who hasn't joined the Author Support Network on FB to join that group. It's Marie's Force group and they are discussing the topic of publishers not wanting romance big time in there. It's an eye-opening discussion and the group is very informative for keeping up with what's going on. There are NYT and USA Today authors in there talking about how they can no longer get contracts with romance! Many romance authors are switching genres. It's no joke.

gingerwoman said:

Yes I noticed that agents that used to be super keen on romance now don't even list any romance books on their author stable type page or have it on their wish lists. But even a self publishing type collective where they help you promote with their head autho'rs known name type thing has closed to submissions until 2019 or maybe not even then, according to staff, probably because they have been inundated with submissions after all the small publishers closing.But it's not all doom and gloom some people are still doing very well.
I notice though that the top selling romace books on Amazon these days tend to be from Amazon's trade publishing imprint that you need an agent to submit to though which is kind of ironic. lol

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When it comes to gloom and doom, I just do me. LOL! We can't control what goes on in the industry but the authors who stay around need to know how to adapt to whatever changes come. You have to be able to adapt in today's writing world or you won't survive. It's important to keep up with the moving and shaking in the industry even if it's negative but don't let it stop you from pursuing your goals.

Oh and about Amazon, Montlake is doing the same thing as other publishers now. They don't want romance unless it's from a big name the same as everyone else. It's always been harder to get with Montlake than other pubs though. The issue is these publishers can't compete with indie romance so they are abandoning the genre which is a shame but it's all about the bottom line at the end of the day.

It doesn't mean people shouldn't try to get contracts but just know the odds are against newbies and midlisters even worse than before (especially when even big name romance authors are not getting contracts) and we've never seen this many pubs or agents flat out refusing romance. That's the scary part.

Oh well I'm not too fussed personally because the stuff I've written so far was never suitable for New York. They are Ellora's Cave type books although luckily when I got my acceptance from EC I also got one from Samhain and was warned off EC so at least I got my checks from Samhain while they lasted.
I was using software to attempt some SEO and frankly even looking at how saturated romance keywords and tropes are was making me think of switching genres. And I was being quite creative and coming up with what you'd think would be original ones and really niching down a lot but....no still massive competition almost everywhere though I finally found some potential sweet spots for my novels it took hours.

Apologies to anyone who feels we hijacked the thread but it seems this imprint is winding up anyway I guess. :-(

But if so many publishers no longer want romance, why are agents participating in contests like #kisspitch (only 2 months ago) and #DVpit, #pitmad etc, requesting romance? I'm not doubting what anybody's said re the romance industry--hell, I thought I had a new book deal with a German publisher's English language imprint as recently as two days ago, only for the editor who offered to get fired and the imprint to shut down--but why are agents still requesting so voraciously if it's in decline?

I can't stress how informative Marie's group is. I can't go further into the group's discussion out of respect and the rules for the group and I don't wanna derail this thread, but I strongly suggest any romance author of any level join that group. It's eye-opening for me and I stay in the know yet I am shocked by what I am hearing. I don't keep up with the trade world anymore since turning indie. I learn what I learn from other authors speaking of their experiences either to me personally or on social media or in the FB groups. Those FB groups are essential because that's where all the knowledge is.

Marie's group is full of all types of writers, which makes it so valuable. As most probably know Marie is a huge author in romance and she gets her information straight from the horses' mouths. She talks to publishers, agents and other industry professionals to keep everyone in the know. The group is also full of other big time authors who have the "inside" scoop of what's going on.

It's basically like this, fewer and fewer agents and pubs want UNKNOWN romance writers. New writers with agents are being told not to give their agents romances until they've gained an audience elsewhere. The pubs are sticking with their top romance authors who are already on their roster and this does not include midlist authors. Midlist romance authors are getting the brunt of this the most. They are the ones losing contracts and even switching genres to survive. Their words, not mine so not being dramatic here. All of this comes from the horses' mouths and many authors on FB are discussing this. As for top romance authors (NYT and USA Today bestsellers and those with huge audiences), there are even authors who like this who are being dropped from their contracts and encouraged by their agents and editors to write other things, such as women's fiction. Also, advances are shrinking for them and some claim to no longer get advances (for romance). The RWA is also worried about this. That's how serious this is. It's not like those little ups and downs we've seen in romance before. This is nothing a genre has seen before. Once again, I'd suggest joining Marie's group and you will learn TONS.

It's shocked even me because as I said, I am one who stays in the know. I like to know what's happening in the industry. I knew things were rough for trade romance with all the imprints closing and small presses closing but I had no idea that big pubs and agents are now turning it away. Of course, some still take romance but it's getting very limited. We see authors on AW saying how they are running out of places to submit romance. Every time you turn around a romance publisher is closed for submissions or only taking in-house subs. The evidence is everywhere that things are changing. I doubt all these places are gonna reopen to submissions. Most likely these imprints and pubs will close, sadly.

As for the future, no it doesn't have to be bleak because there will always be ways to get your work out there. You can self-publish or band together with other authors (many do this now) form a author-run house and get work out that way. There will always be options but we need to be realistic and recognize that things have changed and romance authors need to seriously be aware and prepared if they expect to keep getting work out there. I believe in always having one, two, or three backup plans in this business.

Thanks Cool Pop, that was very informative! I checked out Marie Force's FB group and have joined and read so many posts... All very depressing, but great to have a better insider picture of what's going on.

Re St Martin's Press, I'm not holding my breath but I'll be pleasantly surprised if they aren't closing.

Pisco Sour said:

Thanks Cool Pop, that was very informative! I checked out Marie Force's FB group and have joined and read so many posts... All very depressing, but great to have a better insider picture of what's going on.

Re St Martin's Press, I'm not holding my breath but I'll be pleasantly surprised if they aren't closing.

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Glad you found the group helpful. Yes, it can be depressing but I try to be positive and concentrate on what I can control. That's all we can do.

Pisco Sour said:

But if so many publishers no longer want romance, why are agents participating in contests like #kisspitch (only 2 months ago) and #DVpit, #pitmad etc, requesting romance? I'm not doubting what anybody's said re the romance industry--hell, I thought I had a new book deal with a German publisher's English language imprint as recently as two days ago, only for the editor who offered to get fired and the imprint to shut down--but why are agents still requesting so voraciously if it's in decline?

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Romance is always going to be hot if you get the right book so some agents will still be keen I didn't mean all or most agents weren't requesting it any more I just meant I knew of a few who used to specialise in it as one of their favorite things to acquire who've now lost interest completely and I'm guessing that's because romance readers have turned to the self published books so much and romance writers have turned to self publishing so much driving formally amazingly successful companies like Ellora's Cave and Samahain completely out of the market. Some big agents and publishers would still be looking for romance for brick and mortar stores although here in New Zealand short romance (Harlequen, Avon) has been disappearing from my local outlets leaving only large format Nora Roberts type author books selling in the little stores.

Just looked up a bunch of Big Five digital first romance, mystery and fantasy imprints and they are ALL (all the ones I looked up) now closed to submissions. Mind you I guess I mostly saw authors complaining they weren't making money from them. I remember one or two authors being happy with them but they were authors with a name.

gingerwoman said:

Just looked up a bunch of Big Five digital first romance, mystery and fantasy imprints and they are ALL (all the ones I looked up) now closed to submissions. Mind you I guess I mostly saw authors complaining they weren't making money from them. I remember one or two authors being happy with them but they were authors with a name.

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Unfortunately, I am not surprised by this development. It's gotten so bad I expect publishing closures now. That's sad.

cool pop said:

Unfortunately, I am not surprised by this development. It's gotten so bad I expect publishing closures now. That's sad.

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These all were actually Big Five imprints that accepted unagented submissions which authors were recommending in the past as a safer bet than any small publishers awhile back. Swerve was a Big Five imprint too.

gingerwoman said:

These all were actually Big Five imprints that accepted unagented submissions which authors were recommending in the past as a safer bet than any small publishers awhile back. Swerve was a Big Five imprint too.

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Yes, I know I was just saying it's no surprise either way. Honestly, I never heard great things about these e-only big house imprints. The authors say the books are overpriced so they can't compete as well as they get no promotion. It's like they are treated as a separate entity from the actual publisher. They assume because of the publisher's brand they will get perks but seems like these imprints are worse than going with a regular e-press in terms of sales and royalties from what I hear.

Any info about Wednesday Books? Imprint of St. Martin's Press. But can't find out much about them such as - do they pay advances, etc.? Had some interest from editors during Twitter pitch fest, but alas they can only look at the book if I get an agent, which so far I've had no luck with.

writera said:

Any info about Wednesday Books? Imprint of St. Martin's Press. But can't find out much about them such as - do they pay advances, etc.? Had some interest from editors during Twitter pitch fest, but alas they can only look at the book if I get an agent, which so far I've had no luck with.

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I just finished NYT-best-selling author Roshani Chokshi's THE GILDED WOLVES in hardcover and noticed it was published by Wednesday Books, so I can't imagine that they don't pay advances, but that's conjecture, not hard fact.