Conversations and point of view

deathstar008 said:

So I'm having a little difficulty knowing the best way to present conversations between two characters (I've never taken any lit or writing classes past the required English 101/102 - engineering is my trade). I've been using quotations to go between characters, but it seems a little weird when the scene is from one character's point of view, like it changes to the other character's point of view during the conversation. Is that normal?

Example:

Dr. Aven nodded, "I can totally understand your trepidation Councilor Lawsen, but I hope you can see that my purpose in asking for more funding is based on the security of our planet." The councilor shook her head, "I don't see what this has to do with the planet as a whole doctor. You are basing your claims of alien warships on shady footage of a private satellite that the council doesn't even have proof exists. Besides that, we all know how Mr. Serenth ended up. So unless you are trying to get first priority onto the next boat to the asylum..." She didn't even have to finish, he knew what she was up to.

This scene is from Dr. Aven's point of view, but I can't seem to get it to seem completely that way. Is it in the ending of the conversation? By wrapping the conversation in text that shows it is Dr. Aven's pov, does that smooth it over? Just looking for some help on this as it bothers me a little bit. Thanks.

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I'm kind of super confused. I think you're head-hopping? If you're working in a character's POV, not omni or something, then you shouldn't have the knowledge of the other character's internal motivations.

However, this doesn't read as if it's in Aven's POV....

I don't know whether I'm not understanding you, you're not using terms in a way I understand them or what's going on, but I'm confused, heh.

It seemed to me that it was being told from Dr. Aven's Pov, but you can strenthen that easily enough if you'd like.

deathstar008 said:

Dr. Aven nodded (period here instead of comma) "I can totally understand your trepidation Councilor Lawsen, but I hope you can see that my purpose in asking for more funding is based on the security of our planet."

The councilor shook her head (period here instead of comma) "I don't see what this has to do with the planet as a whole doctor. You are basing your claims of alien warships on shady footage of a private satellite that the council doesn't even have proof exists. Besides that, we all know how Mr. Serenth ended up. So unless you are trying to get first priority onto the next boat to the asylum..." If you describe something here Dr. Aven observes about Councilor Lawsen's behavior, it will help reinforce that the story is being told from his POV. Absurd example: She shrugged, rolled her eyes toward the ceiling and whistled a little tune.

She didn't even have to finish, he knew what she was up to.

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deathstar008 said:

So I'm having a little difficulty knowing the best way to present conversations between two characters (I've never taken any lit or writing classes past the required English 101/102 - engineering is my trade). I've been using quotations to go between characters, but it seems a little weird when the scene is from one character's point of view, like it changes to the other character's point of view during the conversation. Is that normal?

Example:

Dr. Aven nodded, "I can totally understand your trepidation Councilor Lawsen, but I hope you can see that my purpose in asking for more funding is based on the security of our planet." The councilor shook her head, "I don't see what this has to do with the planet as a whole doctor. You are basing your claims of alien warships on shady footage of a private satellite that the council doesn't even have proof exists. Besides that, we all know how Mr. Serenth ended up. So unless you are trying to get first priority onto the next boat to the asylum..." She didn't even have to finish, he knew what she was up to.

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First, this needs to be divided into three paragraphs; Dr. Aven's dialogue, the councilor's dialogue, and finally Dr. Aven's observation.

Second, as long at the internals (thoughts, feelings, observations) all issue from Dr. Aven's perspective--and that seems to be the case here--then you won't have any trouble keeping the POV clear. The only real problem I can see with this is the lack of paragraphing.

ETA: This refers to your first post, not the rewrite: our posts crossed.

Only your last sentence is problematic, and even that is ambiguous rather than completely broken (it's possible that he knows that she knows that he knows ).

There's a fairly easy way to check your work for consistent POV: even when it's written in third person ('Dr. Aven' not 'I') the scene only conveys what the POV characters sees, hears or knows/thinks. Try reading back to yourself in first person - does it still make sense if you put yourself right in Dr. Aven's head and rewrite the scene as 'I', or are you suddenly in sentences that 'I' can't see/know? I would need to know the broader context for this scene to know whether your last sentence still makes sense if it said 'She didn't even have to finish, *I* knew what she was up to.'?

So dialogue itself is always fine - the POV character hears that. But he can't get inside the other character's heads, although he may know or have some assumptions about what they're thinking. You can show this through internal monologue/thoughts from Dr. Aven (don't overdo it) or as Lauram6123 said, by showing little snippets of non-verbal clues that Councilor Lawsen gives off.

The main thing to watch with showing non-verbal clues is to avoid 'filtering' or adding an extra layer of distance from the POV character's perspective. Again to take the earlier example, 'She shrugged, rolled her eyes toward the ceiling and whistled a little tune' is correct; 'Dr. Aven saw her shrug, roll her eyes toward the ceiling and whistle a little tune' would be filtering (it distances us from Dr. Aven's POV and adds unnecessary words).

I don't think this is a POV issue. If Aven thinks he knows what she's up to, that's still his POV. You just have to consider the best way of expressing his suspicions. I think it's hard to judge from a short excerpt. If you can insinuate her motivation in her words and actions leading up to this, that may be better than outright saying what Aven is suspecting.

Omniscient which handles well enough shifts from POV to POV on a paragraph-by-paragraph basis: Red Dragon by Thomas Harris, Swan Song by Robert McCammon, Cujo by Stephen King.

I'm not that certain on what you're trying to ask. I assume you are executing view point correctly in which case I would agree with cornflake. If you are supposed to be in the doctor's point of view, it does sound like you are head hopping in that last sentence there.

My best advice, honestly, would be to read books in the point of view you are trying to write and see how they did it.

deathstar008 said:

How does that read? Better?

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Yes, definitely.