Pop culture references in MG

SarahRoss

Super Member
Registered
Joined
May 21, 2016
Messages
74
Reaction score
7
I'm trying my hand at writing an upper MG for the first time and was wondering about the wisdom of including pop culture references, for books set in contemporary settings. I gather that it's generally considered a no-no, but I have to admit that I feel the urge because I think references can add specificity to characters and make them more relatable. So in the first part that I just wrote, I mentioned that my MC loves The Sims, which I thought was a pretty safe bet because that computer game has been around for ages and probably will continue to be around in the foreseeable future. I'd like to mention some long-running reality TV shows as well (i.e. American Idol, The Voice, America's Next Top Model), but I don't know if that's wise.

The MG series I loved at that age, which is still one of my all-time favorite series, is Animorphs, which is particularly infamous for its cultural references. I personally love it and think it's written into the DNA of the series. They tried to make "updated" versions of the books five or six years ago, but it didn't really work. But I realize that the 90s cultural references in the books are probably a barrier to entry for the books, despite wonderful characters and universally relevant themes.

So I'm curious to hear what other people think of pop culture references in middle grade.
 

frimble3

Heckuva good sport
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 7, 2006
Messages
11,553
Reaction score
6,362
Location
west coast, canada
FWIW, I believe 'America's Next Top Model' ended in December of last year.
If it takes a couple of years for your book to get written and published, how many children will remember it?
 

cornflake

practical experience, FTW
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jul 11, 2012
Messages
16,171
Reaction score
3,734
I don't know if the Sims are that big among kids - and ANTM and American Idol are both off the air. I don't think they were really MG fodder anyway. Maybe Idol back in the day but no one has watched that for yeeears.

I'm not against pop culture references but I think they should be pretty common and, as Frimble says, going to be there.
 

Samsonet

Just visiting
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 5, 2012
Messages
1,391
Reaction score
184
Location
See my avatar? The next galaxy over.
The question is, can the reader understand what the reference means even if they don't recognize the source material?

With some TV shows (America's Next Top Model, Cutthroat Kitchen) it's easy to get an idea of what they're about and thus a bit about the character. With other things (celebrities, shows with vague titles) the meaning might just go over the reader's head even if it's describing the present day.

I'm not sure about how to avoid sounding outdated... It's hard to say when things will suddenly drop out of pop culture.
 

SuperKate

Super Member
Registered
Joined
May 15, 2013
Messages
265
Reaction score
42
Location
DC
Website
www.kidbooklist.com
Do you think made-up references would like? Like "Today's Hottest Model Search" or "Stars" or something like that? Only, you know, better?
 

SarahRoss

Super Member
Registered
Joined
May 21, 2016
Messages
74
Reaction score
7
Yes, all of this seems to make sense, and since none of it is super-relevant I think I can jettison the references.

Maybe generic descriptions are a way around it, like describing a singing show without giving specifics.

And I had no idea that America's Next Top Model was over. That was my guilty pleasure for a few years.
 

cornflake

practical experience, FTW
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jul 11, 2012
Messages
16,171
Reaction score
3,734
They ALWAYS feel dated! I have MG books and thought "That's an old reference". I would avoid them.

I kind of think this can play both ways. Kids reading them might get the ref and later, find it nostalgic. I know I've read books I loved as a kid, as an adult, and been all nostalgic about stuff referenced. So dated things can work in that context where maybe they wouldn't so much in some other contexts. Or maybe I just have a nostalgic bent.
 

Mark Moore

Banned
Joined
Dec 22, 2011
Messages
1,041
Reaction score
39
Age
45
Location
Florida
I generally have my characters reference things that are already old to begin with (or "new again" in cases like "Sailor Moon", where there's currently a new series AND a new English dub of the old series). If it's already kind of outdated but still loved by old and young (as opposed to "flavor of the month"), it'll hold up better AND make your characters a bit more unique.
 

Kalsik

Kalsik
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 14, 2018
Messages
51
Reaction score
2
Location
Brighton
If you are going to use pop-culture references, you'd be wise to use those that have endured. Don't go for the most recent stuff, because who knows if people will remember it. I know they were mocking depictions of nostalgia or pop-culture, but think of the member berries from South Park. If you can imagine what you're referencing as being something they would as well, you're probably safe.
Example:
"'Member the yellow brick road?"
"I 'member!"
Also, if you're referencing something widely known, like a classic TV, Movie, product or piece of work, then you're in even safer hands.
 

Frankie007

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jul 22, 2016
Messages
696
Reaction score
110
If you are going to use pop-culture references, you'd be wise to use those that have endured. Don't go for the most recent stuff, because who knows if people will remember it. I know they were mocking depictions of nostalgia or pop-culture, but think of the member berries from South Park. If you can imagine what you're referencing as being something they would as well, you're probably safe.
Example:
"'Member the yellow brick road?"
"I 'member!"
Also, if you're referencing something widely known, like a classic TV, Movie, product or piece of work, then you're in even safer hands.

Pepperidge Farms remembers too!
 

maghranimal

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 5, 2018
Messages
76
Reaction score
12
Location
Los Angeles
There are plenty of books with pop culture references. Offhand, I can think of A Wrinkle in Time (When you reach me), Dark Materials (breadcrumbs), Kwame Alexander's books cite a lot of video games like Fifa/Halo. I think it has to feel specific to the character, and obviously it does help if readers know the material.
 

Brightdreamer

Just Another Lazy Perfectionist
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 22, 2012
Messages
12,937
Reaction score
4,453
Location
USA
Website
brightdreamersbookreviews.blogspot.com
I'm trying my hand at writing an upper MG for the first time and was wondering about the wisdom of including pop culture references, for books set in contemporary settings. I gather that it's generally considered a no-no, but I have to admit that I feel the urge because I think references can add specificity to characters and make them more relatable. So in the first part that I just wrote, I mentioned that my MC loves The Sims, which I thought was a pretty safe bet because that computer game has been around for ages and probably will continue to be around in the foreseeable future. I'd like to mention some long-running reality TV shows as well (i.e. American Idol, The Voice, America's Next Top Model), but I don't know if that's wise.

The MG series I loved at that age, which is still one of my all-time favorite series, is Animorphs, which is particularly infamous for its cultural references. I personally love it and think it's written into the DNA of the series. They tried to make "updated" versions of the books five or six years ago, but it didn't really work. But I realize that the 90s cultural references in the books are probably a barrier to entry for the books, despite wonderful characters and universally relevant themes.

So I'm curious to hear what other people think of pop culture references in middle grade.

There are kids who, given a compelling story and style, will be willing to read through and figure it out from context, even if they don't get the immediate reference. And there are kids who won't, no matter what. You can't do much about the latter, but don't underestimate the intelligence of the former. If it's important to the feel you're creating, if setting your story in a particular time is part of the tale you're weaving and the reference fits the character you're creating, then don't be afraid to drop the odd potentially-dating reference.

I see When You Reach Me, which has heavy A Wrinkle in Time references (to the point of being a spoiler for the latter book) and also refers to a now-defunct TV game show (Million Dollar Pyramid), go through the library quite a bit. I even see Animorphs now and again. So clearly there's still appeal in both, despite "dated" references.

If you write the story in such a way that it's clear from context what's meant (in WYRM, you don't need to have read AWiT, because enough is explained about the book that you get the gist of it, and the game show reference anchors it in an era - since it deals with possible time travel, that's actually part of the plot), it can still work. As for the Animorphs, it had to be set in the 1990's, so the then-pop references (IMHO) now act as time-anchors; ubiquitous smartphones and other tech advances would kinda have killed things, making it too hard for the secret to stay hidden... plus (again, IMHBO - in my humble, biased opinion, being a fan of the series myself) Applegate's style still has plenty of pop and energy that will appeal to those kids willing to "read through." As with most things, moderation is generally the key.

Also, as I understand it, the older Sim games tend to have a larger adult audience than kids - but everything from S3 onward's kinda tanked the franchise, IMHO, so don't quote me on that... If your character is a Sims fan, though, the game is still popular enough I wouldn't expect young readers to be thrown by it, especially if you drop a few context clues about what the Sims is, and why it appeals to them. (The latter makes for good character building - it's not just that they play Popular Game 4, but why they play Popular Game 4 that will reveal who they are... whether they like playing God with virtual lives, or are trying to figure out people because they just can't get the hang of them in real life, or they're more interested in building and landscaping, or are heavy into modding...)
 

MaryLennox

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 25, 2014
Messages
535
Reaction score
260
Location
Canada
It's not MG, but The Fault in Our Stars has some sort of America's Next Top Model reference...I don't know if they use the real title or make up something similar sounding. I don't remember. But like others have said, it helps if the title explains the show.