A question about trees

Jonah Hex

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Hi everybody, my friends!

I'm planning a short western story, set in an abandoned cemetery, and I have a couple of doubts so I'm here to ask for advices.

I'm thinking about a small cemetery, about 50x50 feet, with the tombs randomly scattered, and with some dead trees between them. It's possible this "kind" of cemetery? Keep in mind that it is an abandoned cemetery in the almost flat plains.

What kind of trees can grow in that cemetery? Oaks or apple trees are a good choice? They must be dead (for neglicence or lightning or other causes).

Since the cemetery is abandoned, can a tree get a full growth within 40 years or less? My short story is set during 1878 at most and I thought to let the cemetery abandoned from 1845-48.

I'm sorry to have opened this topic for questions so simple, not deserving a full discussion. Maybe would be good to open a general topic where post "flash questions" like these above.

Thanks for your help.

So long,
Jonah
 
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stephenf

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Hi
A lot would depend on the location , so you would need look to see what is common to the area where your story is set . Some fruit trees have a relatively short life , so cherry or apple could be good . Oaks live for hundreds of years and would probably would need to be growing before the grave yard existed.
 

mrsmig

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You might want to ask a mod to move this to the Story Research subforum, which is specifically for questions of this kind. If you can provide specifics about your setting (e.g. is this the American West, or some other place? If it's the U.S., what state?), you'll get better results.
 

Jonah Hex

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Thanks for your replies.

I don't want open another thread like this or there will be a useless duplicate. After all I need just simple answers about a western location, so I thought this is the best place where asking.

I did some research before open this thread and I learnt that apple trees and oaks are common throughout the Western USA. Since I think to set the story in New Mexico, I searched with this in mind and I learnt that apple trees are common there too. I need trees with trunks not too much thin, and they must be dead. But I don't know if a oak could die after 40 years or so, unless it is struck by a lightning.
 

mirandashell

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An oak tree won't have a very thick trunk after 40 years. It's a very slow growing tree. Apple would be a better idea.
 

mirandashell

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Also .... does it matter that the trees are full-grown? Is it important to the plot? Or something that readers are going to spot?

If it doesn't really matter what size the tree is, I would say just get on with writing the story.
 

Jonah Hex

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Hi mirandshell, yes, it's important. Better: are important the trees themselves. Better again: they must be creepy trees (that's because I need dead trees). Can't say nothing more ;) Thank you for your replies :)
 

amergina

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Oaks take a long time to grow, but if you have about 60-70 years, you can get a reasonable sized oak. Oaks have been historically hard to kill. Lightning might do it, or a long drought. Today, some mature oaks can die within a season due to certain pathogens, but those weren't around during the time your story is set.

Fruit trees are a better bet.
 

Jonah Hex

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I think so, amergina. But speaking about oaks: it's possibile that a group of oaks dies because drought within 30-35 years? I suppose this cemetery was abandoned around 1848-1850; my story is set in 1878 just to let die the trees, but at the same time I don't want a cemetery with all its tombs and wood gravestones pulverized. I suppose a fruit tree needs less time to die because drought so I can reduce the time of abandon and at the same time still have remains of tombs, gravestones and so on.
But at this time my question is: it's realistic a small group of dead apple trees on a flat and dry plain?
 
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frimble3

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I think that both fruit trees and oaks would be an odd choice for a cemetery, especially a very small one. (A 50 foot by 50 foot cemetery wouldn't have room for many trees inside it, not if you expected the trees to grow. Not if you have several graves in it.)
Oaks are large trees, with large root systems, and if you expected them to survive, they'd push up the coffins when their roots started to spread. Fruit trees are labour-intensive, they need picking, if you don't want a cemetery full of wasps in the apple season. And it would seem disrespectful to be picking fruit over someone's grave. Unless the deceased was a farmer, and it was his specific wish to lie under an apple tree? (Same with an oak, really. I could see one, for a specific person, but not a grove.)

Trees would be likelier at the edges, as sort of a boundary/living fence, and I would think the more common choices would be willows (popular image on headstones in the early 1800's and easy to grow from a cutting) or evergreens (symbol of eternity). Say, a cedar windbreak, or willows planted on gravesites, because they're small and easy to start, that get out of control. The 'scattered' look could easily happen if some of the trees die of neglect early on, even before the rest die off.
Willows like water, but will grow deep roots to find it. If there was an underground source of water, they'd start out well, but when a drought hit, cutting off their supply, they'd die.
 

Jonah Hex

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I think that both fruit trees and oaks would be an odd choice for a cemetery, especially a very small one. (A 50 foot by 50 foot cemetery wouldn't have room for many trees inside it, not if you expected the trees to grow. Not if you have several graves in it.)
Oaks are large trees, with large root systems, and if you expected them to survive, they'd push up the coffins when their roots started to spread. Fruit trees are labour-intensive, they need picking, if you don't want a cemetery full of wasps in the apple season. And it would seem disrespectful to be picking fruit over someone's grave. Unless the deceased was a farmer, and it was his specific wish to lie under an apple tree? (Same with an oak, really. I could see one, for a specific person, but not a grove.)

Trees would be likelier at the edges, as sort of a boundary/living fence, and I would think the more common choices would be willows (popular image on headstones in the early 1800's and easy to grow from a cutting) or evergreens (symbol of eternity). Say, a cedar windbreak, or willows planted on gravesites, because they're small and easy to start, that get out of control. The 'scattered' look could easily happen if some of the trees die of neglect early on, even before the rest die off.
Willows like water, but will grow deep roots to find it. If there was an underground source of water, they'd start out well, but when a drought hit, cutting off their supply, they'd die.
Thanks. The cemetery of my story is a small town cemetery, not a private one. The trees would be dead so no fruits would fall on the ground. I find interesting what you wrote, about the roots that push up the coffins...

I will give a look to scrub trees, thank you Cyia.
 

frimble3

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Trees, planted small and allowed to grow to majestic heights, push up sidewalks, and at least one house that I've seen. (Modest sized bungalow, what was once a nice tree by the front door, now several times the height of the house, and you can see that the house is not level, higher on the end where the tree's roots are.) A simple wood coffin wouldn't offer much resistance.
 

frimble3

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And, agreeing with Cyia, for survival, local scrub trees would do best, especially if you want them to survive after the town is gone, and they're left untended. If they died right away, there likely wouldn't be much left by the time of your story.
 

ElaineA

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An apple tree might work for a short time frame like you have. (Maybe someone wanted to plant an apple tree in the cemetery so there's shade for those who visit, or maybe the cemetery is built around an apple tree to begin with.) Once the place is abandoned, the tree will eventually die because fruit trees do, but the tree skeleton could remain. This photo is a dead apple tree. Where I live, wetlands have been allowed to reform where farmers had blocked the streams. There's a walking path along one and the long-abandoned apple and pear trees are still in evidence, some gone wild but still fruiting, others looking like this.

Here is a list of native New Mexico tree species and where an how they grow.
 

Jonah Hex

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Believe me, my friends, I did a lot of research before this thread, in particular on Google images. I learnt about where apple trees grow in Usa and where oaks do that, too. Your replies are very detailed and them will help me for some aspects of my story. But the doubt still remains: apple trees, oaks or scrub trees? The latter are pretty creepy, as I'm watching on Google images, but I see that it isn't a species but a general category for those plants that grow in arid places); apple trees die too soon (what remains of an apple trees after 30 years of drought?); oaks live too much. With all your informations I think I will choose apple trees and set the date of the abandonment about 10 or 15 years before the time of my story. Do you think this can work?
 

amergina

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...is it imperative that the type of tree be known? I guessing you'll be describing dead trees in your story, but while an expert could probably tell you the type of dead tree (based on shape and if there's any bark still on the tree), a layperson isn't going to know or care.

It's entirely plausible to have dead trees in a cemetery. If that's what you need, then you're good to go. I wouldn't stress out over the type.
 

Jonah Hex

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...is it imperative that the type of tree be known? I guessing you'll be describing dead trees in your story, but while an expert could probably tell you the type of dead tree (based on shape and if there's any bark still on the tree), a layperson isn't going to know or care.

It's entirely plausible to have dead trees in a cemetery. If that's what you need, then you're good to go. I wouldn't stress out over the type.
You're right but when I write I like to be accurate and so I need to know exactly how a thing does appear.
 

blacbird

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If this is a Western story, set in the "West", anywhere west of, say central Nebraska or Kansas, you're likely stuck with willows and cottonwoods, and even they grow mainly along watercourses. Most local cemeteries are set on high ground, which drains well, and in the west, this means mainly prairie grasslands, few of any real trees.

Unless you're up into mountain territory, where you'll get aspens, birches and various conifers, maybe.

caw
 

Mrs-Q

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Mesquite might work for parts of Texas and the American Southwest. They grow pretty fast and they look striking when dead.