P.N. Elrod Editing and Critique

blacbird · Jun 3, 2016

Addendum: Does Elrod critique anything other than Fantasy fiction?

caw

Lauram6123 · Jun 3, 2016

From her website:

* Science Fiction & Fantasy
* Steampunk
* Urban Fantasy
* Paranormal
* Romance
* Young Adult (in the above genres)
* Historical (includes westerns)
* Mystery / Thriller / Suspense
* I'll look at "dystopian future" stuff, but I DON'T like it and that will color my critique.

Lindy · Jun 3, 2016

blacbird said:
Addendum: Does Elrod critique anything other than Fantasy fiction?

caw

My ms is a western

amergina · Jun 4, 2016

I think, perhaps, it's worth mentioning that this forum is public. That is, you should remember that what you type here can be seen by anyone.

I'd also like to point out that critique done via private correspondence...is private correspondence. It's fine to talk about what you got out of the critique (negative or positive), but I'm not sure it's wise to post exact critique quotes. For one, we don't have the context, and for another, it invites speculation, which... well. Let's not speculate.

Roxxsmom · Jun 4, 2016

amergina said:
It's fine to talk about what you got out of the critique (negative or positive), but I'm not sure it's wise to post exact critique quotes. For one, we don't have the context, and for another, it invites speculation, which... well. Let's not speculate.

Sorry for that, and yes, I see your point. Without context, it can definitely do all this. I will reiterate that I think it's money well spent and a useful experience to have one's opening combed over like this.

BethS · Jun 4, 2016

Just for the record, I was not speaking for or about Ms. Elrod in the message that was deleted.

danthony · Jun 9, 2016

It's cool to see so many people here have benefited from Elrod's critiques. I've been a fan of her novels and anthologies for a while now and was pretty excited when I saw she was doing this. I have a novel manuscript I've gotten some interest from agents on but no offer for representation yet, and I think I'll send her the first chapter and see what she thinks about it. Maybe her help is what I need to whip it into shape.

LDParker · Jun 10, 2016

What does everything think? Does it make sense to do something like this before submitting your MS to agents, or doing this only after getting multiple rejections and using this to figure out what is wrong?

I wouldn't mind this but wondering what others think?

Old Hack · Jun 10, 2016

Once you've submitted your book to an agent and have had a rejection, that's it. You can't really revise and resubmit, unless you make huge changes to the book. So it makes sense to me to use Ms Elrod's services prior to any submitting, if you want to take this route. Don't forget to make the most of beta readers and your own revision skills first, though.

MythMonger · Jun 10, 2016

InitiaNova said:
What does everything think? Does it make sense to do something like this before submitting your MS to agents, or doing this only after getting multiple rejections and using this to figure out what is wrong?

I wouldn't mind this but wondering what others think?

In the past, if she thinks something is ready to submit "as is" she'll say so, and provide a contact for you to submit to. Or so I've heard.

Can't say she'll continue that practice going forward, but IMO it speaks volumes to her integrity.

jjdebenedictis · Jun 10, 2016

InitiaNova said:
Does it make sense to do something like this before submitting your MS to agents, or doing this only after getting multiple rejections and using this to figure out what is wrong?

Old Hack said:
Once you've submitted your book to an agent and have had a rejection, that's it. You can't really revise and resubmit, unless you make huge changes to the book. So it makes sense to me to use Ms Elrod's services prior to any submitting, if you want to take this route.

I actually wouldn't mind trying this on a book I wrote that I really liked but couldn't get any traction on. You have to know what's wrong in order to improve, and it's only $50...

Gillhoughly · Jun 12, 2016

jjdebenedictis said:
You have to know what's wrong in order to improve, and it's only $50...

She now has a 25.00 option, half a "brick."

Apparently puts in running comments and tells just where the book got rejected.

The Half-a-Brick option usually provides everything a writer wants to know about that submission and is the best for a limited budget.

Gillhoughly · Jun 30, 2016

New pricing option

This just appeared on Elrod's Facebook wall: https://www.facebook.com/p.n.elrod/posts/10153601720691434

UPDATE to the CRITIQUE website page! I've just added a new payment option:

$10.00 Quickie! The Mini Brick! Almost a Lego! I read through the submission, then offer comments, both general and specific, by return email. I'll let you know what problems are there and why it got rejected. It's a mini version of the Brick in the Face and often the best option for writers on a budget. This is also the fastest option, since I can usually do a same-day return on the feedback!

That one day turnaround sounds pretty cool.

Carrie in PA · Jul 1, 2016

I really wish she did my genre. It would be totally worth $10... or even $25.

ASeiple · Jul 1, 2016

Wait, whoa, the lady who wrote "I, Strahd" is offering $50 critique blasts? THAT Elrod?

AND she's got big five editing experience?

Sweet Jeebus, this is a bargain. Hope she's still got that $50 price tag when I finally get that fantasy deconstruction done.

Gillhoughly · Jul 9, 2016

ASeiple said:
Wait, whoa, the lady who wrote "I, Strahd" is offering $50 critique blasts? THAT Elrod?.

The same one, but she made changes and is no longer offering the 50.00 full brick, but she still has the 10.00 feedback for 3000 words instead of 2500 words.

This popped up on her Facebook page:

I am no longer offering the 50.00 full brick option. It was just too stressful and time consuming.

The 25.00 "Half-a-Brick" for 2500 words is unchanged. That's where you get running commentary as I read, so you know what's going through the editor's mind. I can usually point out the spot where the submission got rejected.

A word increase on the 10.00 "Quickie" -- it is now up to 3000 words, and I send you an email assessment. This is great for writers mad to find out "what's wrong???" with a piece.

And as always, if I think a submission isn't ready for either one, I'll refund payment. Being physically unable to shut the hell up when I'm ahead, I'll likely throw in a few words of advice. If they're of help, there IS a tip jar!

Also, at the advice of my bestie, I've added a "I've read the rules" "I have NOT read the rules" in a pull down menu. It's sort of for comedy relief, but sort of serious.

They are:

"I have read the rules and know this is going to hurt like a fury."
"I have NOT read the rules and think you're going to be nice!"

Um, you want honest fury or a refund?

I'm thinking it over! :tongue

Old Hack · Jul 10, 2016

I assume that Elrod is keeping the prices low in order to attract a lot of customers. There's sense in that. But I still think she's underselling herself. I think this thread is evidence that people are thrilled to be able to have her help.

I'm not suggesting she ups her prices by a huge amount, but I do think she could add ten or twenty dollars to her prices, at least. And perhaps offer longer crits for a much higher price. If she was interested in doing that, and could cope with the time-sucks involved.

Gillhoughly · Jul 10, 2016

Old Hack said:
But I still think she's underselling herself.

I'm not suggesting she ups her prices by a huge amount, but I do think she could add ten or twenty dollars to her prices, at least. And perhaps offer longer crits for a much higher price. If she was interested in doing that, and could cope with the time-sucks involved.

She was clear that the long critiques were bad for her health, so it's probably not a time-suck thing.

I expect she raised the word count for the 10.00 email assessment to attract in more business. I checked her website and she's got 10 out of 10 slots open. If writers were truly interested in professional feedback and on a budget, she should be booked solid.

Maybe her sales pitch is too scary, but from things I've read on this and another AW thread, the feedback IS honest. Perhaps honesty is something those writers just aren't ready to take, much less pay for even at a bargain rate.

Makes me wonder who makes a real living at this. There's some guy I think Writer Beware had in their sights. He self-published one thriller book that sort of did okay, then set himself up doing whole book assessments for 2,000.00 a pop, and offers editing services at twice the rate of the Editorial Freelancers Association.

I have no doubt there are writers desperate enough to fall for that. :Shrug:

Old Hack · Jul 10, 2016

I agree that those long critiques can be difficult to handle, especially when the writers whose works you've critiques try to engage you in a discussion about their work after you've delivered your thoughts. So I don't blame Elrod one bit for not doing those anymore. It's hard.

But I do wonder about the pricing thing. I have a very good friend who is an extremely well-known writer, who a couple of years ago offered critiques just as Elrod is now doing. She offered them at a low price and didn't get many takers; when she put her prices up a lot (I think from £25 to £75 or £100) she got overwhelmed by people wanting her to critique their work. It was odd. It was as if people didn't think her critiques would be worth having unless they paid a decent amount for them.

Still, you're right that at $10 a pop she should be overwhelmed with takers. She's a very good writer and from what I've heard, an excellent giver of critiques.

Gillhoughly · Jul 10, 2016

Old Hack said:
I have a very good friend who is an extremely well-known writer, who a couple of years ago offered critiques just as Elrod is now doing. She offered them at a low price and didn't get many takers; when she put her prices up a lot (I think from £25 to £75 or £100) she got overwhelmed by people wanting her to critique their work.

I don't doubt it, but maybe she was more well known. Elrod is known, but on a very narrow bandwidth. If the 50.00 thing had worked -- that was her maximum price when it was "pay what it's worth to you" -- she should have been swamped again, not dropping her prices.

I follow her on Facebook and the volunteer pay thing she did last year was a bust. Most writers coughed up only the 15.00 minimum, even when it was clear she'd spent hours on a crit. In one case some jerk sent her fan fiction with the names changed just to see if she'd catch on, then stiffed her with the minimum--which she refunded. She did a rant on it. It's in her Pro's Tips as a cautionary tale. You do NOT want an editor recalling your name in a bad way!

Still, you're right that at $10 a pop she should be overwhelmed with takers. She's a very good writer and from what I've heard, an excellent giver of critiques.

And yet... :Shrug:

All the more reason for writers to cash in. She might decide she is worth more and do what your friend did!

amergina · Jul 10, 2016

Elrod's feedback, from what I hear, is kind of feedback I would have LOVED to have had about five years ago. Might have saved me some time.

(But I have an agent now, and am mostly writing romance anyway, so...)

I can't see why writers aren't jumping at the chance.

Parametric · Jul 10, 2016

Gillhoughly said:
Makes me wonder who makes a real living at this. There's some guy I think Writer Beware had in their sights. He self-published one thriller book that sort of did okay, then set himself up doing whole book assessments for 2,000.00 a pop, and offers editing services at twice the rate of the Editorial Freelancers Association.

I have no doubt there are writers desperate enough to fall for that.

I'm a full-time freelance editor for self-publishers. I have nowhere near PN Elrod's credentials (or I didn't before my clients started hitting the USA Today and NYT lists), yet I'm booked solid. It's a real shame for an experienced editor with Big Five history to not be able to find work when there are so many authors looking to pay good money for quality editing. I'd be happy to talk business if PN has any specific questions, because there's a ton of fun, rewarding, well-paid editing work out there if you know where to look.

Dennis E. Taylor · Jul 10, 2016

I think she may be overselling the harshness of her critiques. I've seen in a couple of places (the most memorable was on authonomy) where people were doing a shtick based on harsh critiques. It seemed to me that the critters were putting more effort into being wittily nasty than in being helpful.

I don't mind a harsh, honest, hold-nothing-back critique. I do mind something that's basically a Jay Sherman routine.

ASeiple · Jul 10, 2016

Gillhoughly said:
I follow her on Facebook and the volunteer pay thing she did last year was a bust. Most writers coughed up only the 15.00 minimum, even when it was clear she'd spent hours on a crit. In one case some jerk sent her fan fiction with the names changed just to see if she'd catch on, then stiffed her with the minimum--which she refunded. She did a rant on it. It's in her Pro's Tips as a cautionary tale. You do NOT want an editor recalling your name in a bad way!

What the FLIP?

This absolutely frosts me. It kills me. Here you've got a veteran of the industry, a talented writer, someone who's made her bones trying to give back to the coming generations and being completely generous and approachable with it, and people pull stuff like this.

Weeping creeping Jesus.

Gillhoughly · Jan 4, 2018

Elrod seems to have made changes to her critiquing service. This popped up on my newsfeed:

https://www.facebook.com/p.n.elrod/posts/10155082693536434

"I am now using a "checklist" to expedite critiques. It covers 19 topics with about 85 bullet point questions I need to answer on a work, with a summation at the end."

She's still doing 3,000 word submissions for 10 dollars, and the shop is only open on the 10th of each month, limited to 10 people. Must be her lucky number.

I checked her website page and the scary warnings are either toned down or gone, along with the redundancies. It's like the page lost weight, but gained focus.

There is a short sample of the checklist thing, but I almost missed it for reading too fast.

P.N. Elrod Editing and Critique

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