Too much sex in erotica

Rina Evans

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Dec 29, 2011
Messages
533
Reaction score
44
A while back, on another mesaage board, there was a writer who posted about a reviewer complaining there was way too much sex in the story, cover to cover. The other writers laughed about it and said that complaining about too much sex in stroke material was like saying cheese had too much cheese in it. It still nags at me and I can't help feeling people there have a different view of what erotica is. What do you think erotica is? Can there be too much sex? Is it okay to mock reviewer for expecting more plot? Do you think there are different types of erotica catering to different needs? Short stories being more stroke material than longer stories, for example, so it is futile to complain about a short story lacking plot.
 

Latina Bunny

Lover of Contemporary/Fantasy Romance (she/her)
Super Member
Registered
Joined
May 26, 2011
Messages
3,820
Reaction score
738
Isn't erotica the exploration of character through sex scenes? Aren't sex scenes the whole point of those? At least, for me, they are (for short erotica).

Maybe people vary how much sex they want in their erotica? Maybe it's like how some romance readers prefer more "romance", while others may enjoy more (other, non-romantic) "plot"?

*Disclaimer: I may not be the usual erotica (or romance?) reader. The AWers who are and who write it will give you better advice than me, lol. I'm just stating my opinion and reading habits.*

When I usually read erotica, it's usually those free, online, short stories. I rarely buy erotica (though I do buy romances and erotic romances). I especially never buy longer works of erotica, so I'm obviously not part of the audience for the longer erotica works.

When I read erotica, I usually just want to get to the sex parts. (I do enjoy characterization in my sex scenes. I feel that well-written erotic sex scenes can bring about characterization or development while also being arousing.)

I've seen free, online SFF erotica, but those make me lose patience with all of the other plot (and/or worldbuilding) that had nothing to do with the intimate nature of the relationship.

I prefer my (short) erotica like I enjoy my romances: I like my erotica be mostly about the intimate relationship between the main couple (or triad, etc) than whatever the subplot is.

Wait... If a story has a lot of plot (that doesn't involve the romance or intimacy of the main relationship) than sex scenes, isn't that an erotic (include genre here)? Like erotic romances, etc?
 
Last edited:

Kerosene

Your Pixie Queen
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 29, 2012
Messages
5,762
Reaction score
1,045
Location
Las Vegas, Nevada
I believe this depends on the individual story. Some have too much sex, others not enough.

And erotica isn't strictly pornographic material. For many it might be, but for many others it provides other means of entertainment. Most of the erotica I read I enjoy because erotica stories can have more fulfilling relationships because there's not just sexual tension, but actual sex, and that lead up to it can be quite entertaining.
 

StoryofWoe

Sick and pale with grief.
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 4, 2014
Messages
1,045
Reaction score
89
Location
In fair Verona, where we lay our scene.
The tricky thing about erotica is that, although I've heard some agents and publishers refer to it as a subgenre of romance, it's still a wide umbrella term for everything from Pauline Reage's Story of O and Anais Nin's Delta of Venus to Tiffany Reisz's Original Sinners Series to very short stroke pieces that may or may not contain reptiles or bigfootlike humanoids. Sometimes those readerships overlap. In the case of the reviewer you mentioned, perhaps not. I don't read a lot of short fiction in general, but when I do, I still like there to be some plot and characterization. I'm far more likely to pick up a copy of Best Women's Erotica than I am to take a chance on a 99cent short. I also write erotica and erotic romance novels which contain a great deal of plot and character development, probably because that's what I grew up reading (see the aforementioned Reage and Nin titles, plus Anne Rice's Sleeping Beauty Trilogy).

As for what erotica is and isn't, far be it from me to try and define an entire genre. My understanding is that with regard to erotica vs. romance categorization, erotica focuses on one character's sexual journey, while romance focuses on the couple (or thruple, or whatever). That said, one of the agents I follow on Twitter was recently lamenting the lack of Heroes in M/F erotica queries. So...:e2shrug:

I think it's possible for erotica to have too much sex, though I don't mean that in general terms. If a book sets itself up so that it appears as though it's going to have a lot of plot and then doesn't, it's going to feel imbalanced. Likewise, I just finished a book that started off as erotica and then attempted to become erotic romance, but since there wasn't enough time spent on what ended up becoming the central relationship, I didn't buy the happy ending. I think it's about doing what's right for the story (isn't it always?). If it's a short stroke piece, too much plot or characterization can bog down the action. In that case, "Show, don't tell" becomes much more important, and fortunately, sexual preferences and behavior can reveal a lot about a character.

Wait... If a story has a lot of plot (that doesn't involve the romance or intimacy of the main relationship) than sex scenes, isn't that an erotic (include genre here)? Like erotic romances, etc?
One would think so, right? But I almost never hear of anything erotic classified as something other than erotica. If people are banging a lot and there isn't a central relationship that ends in a Happy For Now or Happy Ever After, it's erotica. Even if people are getting shot. Even if they're just filing their taxes. My first novel was what I considered to be speculative erotic suspense, but if I were to ever let it see the light of day again, I'd probably just query it as erotica.
 

veinglory

volitare nequeo
Self-Ban
Registered
Joined
Feb 12, 2005
Messages
28,750
Reaction score
2,933
Location
right here
Website
www.veinglory.com
I am sure there can be too much anything in anything. But it is worth pointing out that erotica is not the only genre that can have sex in it. Readers finding tiresome amount of sex in their erotica might want to branch out into the world of erotic [insert other genre name].
 

Helen_Rouge

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jul 9, 2013
Messages
129
Reaction score
10
Location
L.A. - The Movie Capital of Southern California
27% ??? I thought that was the standard, and it has to be explicit, no closed doors. That's not a federal law, as far as I know. Then again, it might be. Anyway, I try for real characters and try to develop them at least a little. Then, they fuck. A lot. And then some plot that results from the fucking. Then, they fuck. A lot. Rinse and repeat. (Could be 27.5%).
 

Claudia Gray

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 20, 2007
Messages
2,918
Reaction score
604
I'd guess erotica can have nearly cover-to-cover sex as long as (a) we're genuinely learning about the characters and (b) whatever plot there is continues to move forward. But ideally, with erotica, the sex itself is a fundamental part of the journey they're on; we're learning about these people and seeing them change through these sexual experiences. Therefore, while you can have a lot of it, IMO the bar is raised in terms of making sure every sexual encounter has a definite, unique meaning. Each time has to move the story forward in some way.
 

sunandshadow

Impractical Fantasy Animal
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 17, 2005
Messages
4,827
Reaction score
336
Location
Pittsburgh, PA, USA
Website
home.comcast.net
I'm not really a fan of the obligatory-sex-scene-every-chapter-no-room-for-plot type of erotica, but I'd day it's a different subgenre of erotica rather than being something wrong with a specific story.
 

stephenf

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jul 29, 2008
Messages
1,199
Reaction score
335
hi Rina
Your right ,people do have different views. Some people , seemingly , never think about sex and to talk about an erect penis is roughly the same as murdering babies . Personally I don't read books that are described as erotica , It sounds so mundane .
 

JavierCervantes

Registered
Joined
Feb 16, 2016
Messages
14
Reaction score
1
It's just my amateur opinion, but I think it's very difficult to write erotica with too many spaces in between the sex. Once the sex starts, you have the excitement of a new coupling and all that exploration. I imagine it can be too much if it's every chapter for many many chapters, but a good long burst of sex is right up my alley. I don't think you have to sacrifice plot and character development, those things can also come from the sex. Or so I think. Maybe one only notices when the sex is not really ringing their bell?
 

veinglory

volitare nequeo
Self-Ban
Registered
Joined
Feb 12, 2005
Messages
28,750
Reaction score
2,933
Location
right here
Website
www.veinglory.com
I generally write about people who have other things to do in life as well as sex. Like slaying that dragon. So, yeah, nothing like a dragon burning down your village to spoil the mood for a chapter or two.
 

CrystalCierlak

Super Member
Registered
Joined
May 17, 2012
Messages
178
Reaction score
8
Location
California
Website
www.crystalcierlak.com
I've encountered this (as a reader), but it was mostly because after a while the sex was just so repetitive and every. single. orgasm was life changing and earth shattering. Perfect sex every single time in the same three positions is so boring.
 

LA*78

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 5, 2013
Messages
2,142
Reaction score
243
Location
A sunburnt country
I don't know that it's necessarily the quantity of sex in the story that is an issue (in terms of too much, I think in Erotica there can definitely be too little some times). Rather, I think sometimes the sex can get repetitive and lose its appeal to the reader (ie reader gets bored and starts wondering if the story has anything else to offer). Especially when it's just same moves, new location etc. I think there needs to be a story arc there driving the characters' need/want for sex.
 

Roxxsmom

Beastly Fido
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 24, 2011
Messages
23,079
Reaction score
10,775
Location
Where faults collide
Website
doggedlywriting.blogspot.com
Hmm, the erotica I've read centered on sex scenes and hasn't shied away from showing it in graphic detail, but there is a plot, characterization, and story there. The sex is essential in moving these forward, but there's usually some other issue at the heart of the story too. To me, a string of repetitive sex scenes with no plot or reason at all that doesn't feel thinly contrived would be closer to the definition of pornography.

It's impossible to tell without reading the work in question, but maybe the reviewer saying there was too much sex was really articulating that it felt repetitive or too mechanistic (not emotional enough), or it didn't advance the story in the way he/she expected? Or maybe it's just a taste thing, or even that they don't really understand erotica at all?
 

AdamArotti

Registered
Joined
Oct 12, 2015
Messages
6
Reaction score
0
I tend to agree with CrystalCierlak and JavierCervantes, and I've had occasion to right about this on my blog. The way I see it, people who read erotica want an erotic "fix" -- if they wanted a lengthy novel with full character development, they might choose a regular novel with erotic scenes, or a romance novel. My trouble with those is that the erotic scenes get you all worked up, and your juices flowing, and then...it's back to the non-erotic part of the story, giving you sexual whiplash. So an erotic story has to be written in a way that the sex doesn't get boring, but in a way in which it is still the sex that drives the story. To me, this is most effective in short stories, but I'd love to hear other perspectives on this.
 

Helen_Rouge

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jul 9, 2013
Messages
129
Reaction score
10
Location
L.A. - The Movie Capital of Southern California
27%, no more, no less. And, or, this advice from an erotic publisher, "get them fucking fast and furious as soon as possible".

Remember, your readers probably already have their toys out. (real or plastic). And, you're going to make them wait????
 

veinglory

volitare nequeo
Self-Ban
Registered
Joined
Feb 12, 2005
Messages
28,750
Reaction score
2,933
Location
right here
Website
www.veinglory.com
I think so called "stroke fiction" is a subset of erotica, but a book can be genre erotica without the expectation that it is masturbatory material. Erotica is focused on sex but that includes having many different things to say about the subject rather than only: Yay! I personally read a great deal of erotica but never so far with my toys out. At most I save scenarios I enjoy for later because I find I can't really multitask.
 
Last edited:

Maryn

Sees All
Staff member
Super Moderator
Moderator
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 12, 2005
Messages
55,429
Reaction score
25,447
Location
Snow Cave
On the other hand, I've had a publisher recommend removing the first sex scene and increasing the build-up to it. Go figure, huh?
 

DancingMaenid

New kid...seven years ago!
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Aug 7, 2007
Messages
5,058
Reaction score
460
Location
United States
Different people have different tastes, but I think the issue with 'too many" sex scenes is that you run the risk of being repetitive or removing the tension. This goes for any genre, really. A lot of people love car chases in action movies, but if a movie has nothing but one car chase after another, some people are going to get bored. People love twists in mystery novels, but if there are dozens of twists, it can start to feel ridiculous.
 

gingerwoman

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jun 27, 2007
Messages
2,548
Reaction score
228
I've read the definition of erotica is that it includes story whereas porn doesn't have to include much story. If you're paying for something on Amazon rather than finding free stuff online I would think you'd expect some plot and character development, or at least plot.
 

Pencrafter

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jun 2, 2019
Messages
86
Reaction score
3
Reminds me of that part in Amadeus where the count of wherever says, “too many notes!”

It could be the ratio of sex to other things, such as what the characters are like as people, what they do when they’re not in bed..do they like each other. Is something complicating or endangering the affair. Even when I have lots of sex with lovers, I enjoy talking with them, knowing about them, hearing their ideas - sexual and not.