Obama Changes Stance on Assad

William Haskins · Dec 15, 2015

from wapo in october:

Finally, on Aug. 18, then-Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton said, “The transition to democracy in Syria has begun and it’s time for Assad to get out of the way.” Obama simply issued a statement: “For the sake of the Syrian people,” he said, “the time has come for President Assad to step aside.”

The route Obama took to that declaration says a lot about where he is today. The president’s insistence that Assad must go has been his only true red line in the Syrian conflict. The red line he drew, and then withdrew, about repercussions of Syria’s use of chemical weapons didn’t happen for more than a year. But Obama’s determination to topple Assad remains one of the main points of friction between the United States and Russia in Syria.

from the AP today:

"The United States and our partners are not seeking so-called regime change," Kerry told reporters in the Russian capital after meeting President Vladimir Putin. A major international conference on Syria would take place later this week in New York, Kerry announced.

<snip>

President Barack Obama first called on Assad to leave power in the summer of 2011, with "Assad must go," being a consistent rallying cry. Later, American officials allowed that he wouldn't have to resign on "Day One" of a transition. Now, Assad's stay could be indefinite.

Don · Dec 15, 2015

Hey, at least he's consistently evolving.

William Haskins · Dec 15, 2015

so is e. coli.

Vince524 · Dec 15, 2015

His original statement was written with an erasable red marker.

Synonym · Dec 15, 2015

Putin + Woodshed = New Policy

Cramp · Dec 16, 2015

Looks to me like weary capitulation to the realities of global politics.

I'm not sure what is so "gotcha" about that.

William Haskins · Dec 16, 2015

it's not really a "gotcha" for obama, who is running for nothing but his legacy, which has long been stained by ineffectual foreign policy.

it could be a "gotcha" for hillary clinton, who sang from the same hymn book and who should now have to answer as to her position, if the press will do its job.

it's really more of a "gotcha" for the 9 million syrians who have fled their homeland and cannot return without:

being gassed, jailed or tortured by a despot that the west assured them they were committed to helping depose,
being beheaded, enslaved or raped by the islamists who gained a foothold when it became obvious that the west was more interested in rhetoric than in assisting moderate rebels, or
being blown to bits by clinton's "reset" buddies and assad allies in russia for simply trying to determine their own future.

so yeah, i'd say there's a "gotcha" in there, but nothing as petty as you seem to be implying.

Vince524 · Dec 16, 2015

William Haskins said:
being beheaded, enslaved and raped by the islamists

.

Fixed it. Although the order might still be off.

Teinz · Dec 16, 2015

Perhaps it's time to take the road less taken. Realpolitik has it's merits.

Cramp · Dec 16, 2015

Yes, it sucks to be Syrian right now. The global community has a lot to answer for. As they probably do in Iraq and Afghanistan, and to the victims of Boko Haram and the many other parts of the world where we have fomented and allowed injustice and inhumanity to rule.

Myrealana · Dec 16, 2015

Cramp said:
Looks to me like weary capitulation to the realities of global politics.

I'm not sure what is so "gotcha" about that.

You don't understand how it works. You have to take one position and stick to it forever regardless of any new factors or information, even if the previous position proved untenable or irresponsible, or just isn't working.

Only weakness and lily-livered liberal delusions make a person change a position over time or try new things. Don't you know that?

William Haskins · Dec 16, 2015

said no one ever.

rugcat · Dec 16, 2015

William Haskins said:
said no one ever.

The very title up this thread, however, mocks Obama once again for changing his stance on gay marriage.

William Haskins · Dec 16, 2015

thread title changed.

nighttimer · Dec 16, 2015

Cramp said:
Looks to me like weary capitulation to the realities of global politics.

I'm not sure what is so "gotcha" about that.

William Haskins said:
it's not really a "gotcha" for obama, who is running for nothing but his legacy, which has long been stained by ineffectual foreign policy.

it could be a "gotcha" for hillary clinton, who sang from the same hymn book and who should now have to answer as to her position, if the press will do its job.

it's really more of a "gotcha" for the 9 million syrians who have fled their homeland and cannot return without:

being gassed, jailed or tortured by a despot that the west assured them they were committed to helping depose,

being beheaded, enslaved or raped by the islamists who gained a foothold when it became obvious that the west was more interested in rhetoric than in assisting moderate rebels, or

being blown to bits by clinton's "reset" buddies and assad allies in russia for simply trying to determine their own future.

so yeah, i'd say there's a "gotcha" in there, but nothing as petty as you seem to be implying.

Whoa. Touchy, much? :e2poke:

Pull your claws in, Wolverine.

I fail to see anything "petty" in Cramp's post. Maybe I'm just not reading through the lines to find it.

William Haskins · Dec 16, 2015

perhaps you should just read the lines as written, then.

i never said there was anything petty in cramp's post.

i said cramp was implying that the OP was a "gotcha" (and thus indicative of a petty motive on my part) and i offered a reasoned rebuttal of why i disagreed.

Vince524 · Dec 16, 2015

Myrealana said:
You don't understand how it works. You have to take one position and stick to it forever regardless of any new factors or information, even if the previous position proved untenable or irresponsible, or just isn't working.

Only weakness and lily-livered liberal delusions make a person change a position over time or try new things. Don't you know that?

No of course someone can change their position. But someone should be able to articulate why.

I once felt this, but after learning and experiencing something, I came to understand that.

Why the change in the Obama stance towards Assad? Did he become less of a monster? Or is it that originally, he never thought Assad would cross that red line and figured he'd never be called on it.

nighttimer · Dec 16, 2015

William Haskins said:
perhaps you should just read the lines as written, then.

i never said there was anything petty in cramp's post.

i said cramp was implying that the OP was a "gotcha" (and thus indicative of a petty motive on my part) and i offered a reasoned rebuttal of why i disagreed.

Yeah, I know you disagreed with Cramp that the OP was a "gotcha". I did not and do not see anything in the 21 words of Cramp's post which reasonably could be extrapolated to be indicative of a petty motive on your part.

Barring Cramp saying, "Okay, I'll fess up: that was me suggesting Haskins was being petty" or you copping to, "Okay, I'll fess up: it was a "Gotcha!" original post" any and all interpretations are strictly subjective.

Carry on... :e2shrug:

raburrell · Dec 16, 2015

Vince524 said:
Why the change in the Obama stance towards Assad?

One word: Putin.

The statement suggests to me that we've found some limited, perhaps behind-the-scenes way to cooperate with Russia, who after having a plane full of their citizens blown up, suddenly isn't so keen on ISIS either. Assad remains Putin's "red line" however. So, we're stuck with him.

Which, given that the guy has killed at least 10x more people than ISIS so far, really sucks. It's also the reality we're dealing with. I'd probably term it realpolitik more than statesmanship, but... yeah.

Vince524 · Dec 16, 2015

Putin has wanted to replace the US as the most powerful country in the world and become the power broker in the Middle East. This suggests that he's succeeding.

raburrell · Dec 16, 2015

To put it mildly, that's a pretty big leap.

Obama Changes Stance on Assad

???

statesmanship

capitulation

other

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