Cathleen's Once Upon a Time Publishing Journey

whistlelock

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email services like Fussy Librarian have been great for me. But the best "bang for your buck" is to team up with a few other authors in your genre and create a box set of all new material. Then put it out there for 99 cents. The whale readers will pick up your box set, and if they like your work, they'll check out the rest (which you have conveniently linked for them at the end of your story). After that, make lots of friends with email lists in your genre that are willing to send out your book from time to time.
 

CathleenT

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I've done a couple newsletter swaps and those worked okay, but I'm hampered by only being willing to recommend books that I actually like. I guess a lot of people just trade, and I'm not okay with doing that. I feel like giving blind recommendations to my email friends is an abuse of their trust. (This is a personal scruple--not saying anyone here has to share it.)

The other thing that hampers me is the size of my list, which is small (160+ names, and just the fact that I used the plus should tell you how happy I am to get each one). Anyway, someone with a thousand names on their list is definitely getting the short end of the stick.

However, if there are any fantasy writers out there who would like to swap books with an eye to possible cross promotion, I'm up for it. My blogging reach is actually a lot larger than my newsletter membership if you're wondering what would be the point. And then, everything I blog automatically goes out on Facebook and Twitter, and there are a lot of people in the latter platform who retweet my stuff, if that sweetens the pot.

Thanks for the suggestion, whistlelock. :)
 

Norman D Gutter

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Best of luck to you in your writing and marketing, Cathleen. I think you're well ahead of me, especially in the latter.

NDG
 

CathleenT

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I don't know, Norman. I've been listening to the SFF marketing podcast (http://www.marketingsff.com/), and I'm feeling really slow--kind of like I need special ed marketing classes or something.

I've identified one major error I've made--don't spend a year studying social media at the expense of writing and publishing. I think I should've plowed forward with releasing books instead. And okay, I released a collection that did well (for me) and a novelette freebie for my email list last year, but I could've done a lot more.

We all need some social media, but I think it's okay to just let it grow organically, as regards Facebook and Twitter, although I've gotten a scheduler for them (eclincher was pretty cheap and they let you save your posts and reschedule them). I can't see the point in scheduling Pinterest and Google+. Honestly, I don't see much value coming from Google+ at all. According to the SFF marketing podcast, 99% of your results will come from Facebook and Twitter. If I was just going to choose one, it would be Facebook, even though I don't like it that much. Think of all the people you know whose only social media is Facebook. OTOH, Twitter's a lot more tolerant of book marketing.

And I'm backing off my blog a bit--posting less, and I'm not including the like buttons at the bottom of each post (I'm on WordPress.com.) There's a whole culture there that if someone likes your post, you should go like one of theirs. But I was spending a lot of time just reciprocating visits, and really...it ended up feeling like spinning my wheels. A lot of their posts weren't stuff that interested me, and I couldn't see how they were interested in reading fantasy, either.

The main thing is writing. I was just so afraid of releasing my work into a void that I focused too much on the other stuff. So I guess if I were to start again (which is kind of what I'm doing now), I would try not to be reacting to that fear so much.

OTOH, unless you do something really dumb like alienating people, starting over isn't that bad because you're not starting from scratch. I've got my 6300 Twitter followers, and they're mostly actual people, not bots and follow back scammy stuff. Maybe that's worth more than I think it is. And it's big enough now that it just kind of grows on its own.

BTW, if you want to significantly shortcut the amount of time it takes to build a Twitter following, it's pretty easy. Open an account, then go to my account and follow any of my followers who are interesting. I totally give you permission, not that you need it, but it might help you feel like less of a stalker (that part bugged me at first). I've got more detailed instructions on my blog, just check under the social media tab. It's all organized by platform.

My Facebook is still tiny but it's there. It lets me interact on Facebook groups, but mostly, I've found that to be a time sink. It's mostly that I want to be find-able to folks who only use that platform. I have three posts a week in the scheduler, all happy things like quotes, funny memes, dog and cat pics, etc. I'm going to work in links for all the short stories that I've already blogged, maybe one a week. I don't quite have a year's worth (I've got 31), but that seems like the non-sales-y thing I have that would appeal most to people in general. I don't think there are many general readers who are that interested in the how-to posts on writing and social media.

Maybe I just spent all this time setting things up so that I could succeed. That would be a happy thought.

And okay, I've been slow. I've been fast at other things in my life. I'm getting better at this. Maybe not good enough to tear it up yet, but good enough to be better than I was, which might be all that anyone can hope for. As long as I keep getting better, maybe I'll get enough readers that it'll feel like there's some point to all this.

I live in hope. It's so much better than the alternative. :)
 
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tiddlywinks

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So I'm planning on releasing Bellerophon and another short story collection this year, (To the Victor) and I was going to charge for them--a whopping 99 cents.

Ironically, it would be less expensive if I just gave Bellerophon away. But I don't know. Maybe that will look pathetic, like I don't think my books are good enough to sell. I already have three books for free. Really, that should be enough.

What I want is to have my books cheap enough that people will grab them as an impulse buy. That's why the $.99 price tag. I was thinking next year I'd start charging $2.99 (if my readership has expanded enough to make it feasible). By then I'll have five books out, so hopefully I'll have a decent base.

*cough* So, I know you didn't ask for input on pricing Bellepheron, but I'm gonna open my big mouth anyway. :greenie Having read that book, I think you're selling it too cheap. I'd buy it for more than .99 cents! Why not start at 2.99 now? What's stopping you?

You've got free stuff out there so people know what they are getting into with your writing. And you put a lot of blood, sweat and tears into your work. It's a good story, Cathleen. I think you can command more for it, my friend. I know you want more readers, and you want the impulse buyer, but also have faith in the value of your words. And there are impulse buyers at the 2.99 level. You could always drop back from there. Lero, as a standalone, could be a good candidate for the higher price point.

Just two cents from a reader who believes in that story! :)
 

CathleenT

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Thanks, winks. Yeah, I've been kind of reconsidering the $.99 cent tag on that one. It's a full 70k, unlike my short story collection, which probably should be at $.99. Lindsay Buroker on the SFF podcast stated that as long as you've got the book on KU, you can still make back some of your Amazon ad investment on a $.99 book in page reads.

And it's not as though I can't drop Bellerophon to $.99 for sales. I've been looking into Book Barbarian, although interestingly, the founder (sorry, forgot his name) said on the SFF marketing podcast that $1.99 seems to do as well as $.99 on his site, which is curious, since that price seems to be a black hole when you use it in Amazon.

And if I sell one novel at a regular price, there's a slight possibility that I could even make a little money next year.

Although from listening to the podcast, they said it's normal to make negligible income until you have six or seven books out there.

So now I'm wondering if I can release my Snow White duology this year, too. That would make six actual books for sale on Amazon, plus the exclusive novelette on my site.

Depressing statistic from the podcast: it takes an average of about 4 books for a reader to recognize your name. The info came from Joanna Penn, so it's probably pretty good.
 
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Polenth

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A lower price doesn't automatically mean more sales. My books haven't sold better when I've done temporary drops to 99 cents. The only difference was I made less money on the sales.
 

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Hey, CathleenT, sounds like you’re learning a lot about marketing from that podcast. I like your advice of letting social media followers grow organically. I think the majority of my readers come from Goodreads, so I spend the majority of my time on there. Facebook doesn’t do anything for me because I refuse to pay and Twitter is fun connecting with other writers, but I doubt they’re my audience. Would you recommend that podcast for writers of any genre?
 

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Hey, CathleenT, sounds like you’re learning a lot about marketing from that podcast. I like your advice of letting social media followers grow organically. I think the majority of my readers come from Goodreads, so I spend the majority of my time on there. Facebook doesn’t do anything for me because I refuse to pay and Twitter is fun connecting with other writers, but I doubt they’re my audience. Would you recommend that podcast for writers of any genre?

I keep wondering if I should get more involved on Goodreads. I might have to look into it. I just don't have that much time for social media, though, and I'm already spread thin between various forums, Facebook, Twitter, and now I'm trying to get started on Reddit Fantasy.
 

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I'm not even really certain what success is for someone at my level. In my genre (fantasy) and furthermore in my subset which would currently be fairly clean fairy tales, what is a positive result? It started as an experiment. Will the genre of Tolkien and Lewis still support the type of tales I read as a child? Or has it all gone grimdark, and I'm writing for an audience of one? I have absolutely no idea.

People say encouraging things, but they could just be trying to help me.

But at least it's up. Fear didn't keep me from publishing. Right now, I'm happy with that victory.

There's definitely an audience still for clean fairy tales. Have you read K.M. Shea, Melanie Cellier, Aya Ling, Shari L Tapscott? K.M. Shea also features twice on the SFF Marketing podcast, so might be worth a listen.

I'm also writing in the fairy tale genre, so :Hug2:

You're absolutely right about writing being the main thing. Write a great book, find its audience, get an appropriate cover, description, and maybe run ads targeted at readers of similar books. Simple, eh?!
 

M. H. Lee

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It's a matter of finding the people who get into what I do--which is like the opposite of grimdark. (Think 70s and 80s fantasy.)

Is there a dashboard or something that I can log onto so I can see how much my Amazon ad is costing? That way I can pull the plug on it if it gets too hideously expensive.

I know lots of other people have used Amazon ads. Did you notice an increase in your email list when using them, or is it sales only?

And also, to reiterate my earlier question, what other advertising have AWers done that paid off well--preferably in terms of subscribers?

I've heard of some writers calling what they write noblebright fantasy. Might want to look for that term. And I believe one of those authors runs periodic cross-promotions with other authors for those types of books. (Check kboards).

In terms of AMS, on the main dashboard there's a listing of all of your ads and how much they've spent. That seems to be fairly current. When you have a lot of ads running and for a long period of time (I have 22 running right now and have had some going for a couple years now), look to your Billing History. The top entry will be your accumulated ad spend that you haven't yet been billed for.

For me, AMS result in sales. If your goal is a mailing list look to something like Instafreebie instead. I think you have to do the paid option to get the mailing list signups though. I also know people who use FB ads to drive newsletter signups.
 

CathleenT

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Wow, a lot of posts came in. I need to get busy here. :)

Thanks, Polenth. You and winks have a point about pricing. And from the SFF marketing podcast, a full novel's price should be at least $2.99, although I guess it's considered advantageous to drop the price for special promotions, like BookBub (if you can get it).

AgathaChristieFan (btw, I'm one, too), one of the podcast hosts also writes cozy mysteries, so I'd say the advice they give should cross genres. Just look at the titles of the individual episodes, as well as the guest speakers. One of their guests was a romance writer, and a lot of her advice was tailored to people writing 40k books, which I guess is common in that genre, but it didn't apply much to me. I didn't finish that one.

They've only got a few podcasts on social media, and the general gist of that was that you shouldn't take too much time on it, which is advice I'm trying to take to heart.

As a cautionary note: these authors all publish a lot, as in at least six titles per year. And from what I've been able to glean, that's a marketing move all on its own, especially if you advertise. In fact, if you do both, according to Joanna Penn (How to Market a Book, plus she's also got a lot of free stuff about marketing on her blog), you don't actually have to do anything other than that. She just launched a new sweet romance pen name this year, and she said she's already maintaining platforms for her fiction and nonfiction work, so she didn't want to add another.

Concerning Facebook, I did glean something useful from the podcast. Pay for a boosted post (which will reach everyone who liked your page or profile) only for new releases.

As bonus info, on another podcast episode they discussed paying for boosted tweets on Twitter, and none of them found it was worth the money.

I don't do much with Facebook. I've got if-this-then-that protocols set up so that everything I blog automatically gets posted there. I've only got fifty likes (I'm better at getting newsletter subscribers, and that's hard.) But it's supposed to matter that I'm there. Facebook is still the most popular social media there is (just think of all the people you know whose only social media account is Facebook). From what I've read, you want to be find-able on that media. Also, you want to control your name. This is hypothetical, but the last thing I want is to be confused with another Cathleen Townsend who has outspoken views that I'd find totally reprehensible, like white supremacy or such. So it's a way of safeguarding your online identity. I pop in and check it every week or so, less when I'm hammered for time, and it only takes a few minutes.

Although for this year, I also loaded a year's worth of posts onto the scheduler. Three times a week, and they're mostly uplifting quotes by fantasy authors, although I do substitute in holiday stuff as well, and not just for Christmas. As an example, in January I posted a series of quotes by famous black women in honor of Black History Month. And I hit most holidays (like Groundhog Day) with happy, non-confrontational memes. That cost me some time, and I'm not sure yet if it's worth it because I only started it this year. But the if-this-then-that stuff only needs set-up, and then it takes no time at all.

One caution on if-this-then-that. Don't automatically post your tweets to your Facebook page. I look at two or three Facebook posts per day as the absolute max (that includes sharing other people's stuff), whereas on Twitter, my minimum is eight tweets a day (in the scheduler), and that doesn't count all the retweeting I do, which is usually at least twice the base tweeting. (Yet another aside--only two of my scheduled tweets are book promotion--the others are funny memes, quotes, and evergreen blog content.) Anyway, that many Facebook posts would annoy people, and they'll unfriend you.

rwm, most of my time on goodreads is spent on the Reading Rounds groups when I'm a part of one. But there is a way to if-this-then-that your blog posts onto goodreads, and I've done that. I mean, why not? I'm already writing the posts, and you never know. I have no idea what results I've gotten, if any, but it's free, and it's a one-time task, so it's no big deal if it never nets me anything.

April, hugs back to another fairy tale lover! And yes, I listened to KM Shea's SFF marketing podcasts, and I even went to check out her blog and her work on Amazon. As concerns her marketing strategy, which mostly seems to consist of publishing a lot and blogging (she doesn't even care if readers get on her newsletter), she got her start back in "the gold rush years" at the beginning of this decade. I'm not sure it's something a writer could replicate in the current marketplace, although she also publishes a lot, which seems to be a constant.

Although I have considered targeting her readers with my as-yet hypothetical AMS ads.

M. H., I just went to Amazon and bought your book on AMS. I figure the last thing I need is to try to figure out all the stuff you already know. :)

And thank you so much for passing on the term noblebright. It is such a pain Googling fantasy. Most of the hits seem to be for fantasy football or sex stuff. Even trying fantasy fiction didn't help much. There's just too much football stuff out there.

Thanks so much, everyone.

ETA: It seems I always post something and then remember something else I wanted to say, and this time is no exception. Grr.

I never quite finished my thoughts on book promotion and frequency of publishing. So we already covered that if you publish a lot, you can squeak by with no social media at all, not even a blog (although everyone needs at least a static website).

But what if you're like me, and the thought of publishing six books a year is currently out in fantasyland?

One of the book marketers I've followed, because he gives away lots of free info, is Tim Grahl. He orchestrates book releases for a lot of big names, and he has a system that covers all the way up to nine months before publication, and he's worked with SP authors as well.

You can get the blueprint for his system for free, by signing up for free email courses, although if you want exact details of how to go about it, you have to fork out money for his main course (no surprise there).

But he covers a timeline to getting all this stuff out. It makes a book launch way more work than publishing frequently and getting your ads lined up, and like I said, if you do everything, it'll take you nine months.

I think successful SP publishing works something like this:

You have three main components in your arsenal for avoiding the dreaded internet cloak of invisibility.

1. Your books themselves, which should be of professional quality,
2. Paid advertising, like AMS, Bookbub, Freebooksy, etc.,
3. And social media, which is free, but it will cost you time. That includes leveraging your social media, like writing guest blog posts to increase your internet friends, which will come in very handy at launch time.

If you do any two of the three a lot, that seems to be working, and this is for established authors, but they've used this stuff recently to launch new pen names (not just JF Penn, but the podcast authors have done this, too). As an aside, the podcast hosts all have at least Facebook accounts, and they blog, although not that often, like once a month.

And everyone does email lists. Consensus is so rare in the gig that when I find it, I really pay attention.

If you have more of a trade publishing schedule, like once a year, we need to act more like trade published authors in this area. That includes reaching out to media, book bloggers (which I've personally found to be a time sink with not that much payoff), etc.

These two models work. They've been used multiple times by many authors, and the results seem to be fairly reliable.

So of course, what I'm trying is a hybrid model. I definitely want to publish more than once a year, although a lot of mine have thus far been trade publications in ezines and such, which is something I'm going to be backing away from. It was important to me for the validation--yes, my writing really is of professional quality, since publishers are actually willing to pay me for it.

But I've had ten of them, and I mostly get my validation from reviews now. And I'm not sure ezines and anthologies netted me anything in terms of readers. If they did, it was small.

So, I want to try to amp up my personal publication schedule to at least two books a year, preferably three. Heaven knows I've got enough of the things already written. I'm still sitting on eight novel manuscripts and one short story collection. None of them are quite ready, although four are pretty close.

(The problem is I drafted seven novels before I knew anything about writing other than grammar, punctuation, and all the nonfiction writing you have to do to get a writing-based degree. I've learned a lot about writing from trying to fix them, and also from writing short stories and posting in SYW. (SYW critters, I love you sooo much.) But honestly, those seven books were so riddled with problems that it will probably be faster to just rewrite the last two, which have had very little beta input, rather than fixing the existing drafts.)

I've been pretty successful with my novelette, Stolen Legacy, at least in terms of email subscribers, (I just hit 173 today!) so I figure I know how to work that length fairly well. So I'm considering trying to supplement getting out my early novels with some novelettes, which are faster.

Novelettes come with another advantage--I get to write something new. I wrote very little new last year--I focused on editing and figuring out social media--and it's driving me nuts. And ultimately, your attitude about this stuff matters. So I want to work this in as well.

Anyway, what I'm going to try is getting out as many quality books that I can, which will probably be 2-3 per year max, at least at my current skill level. I hope to get better at managing all this stuff, but it's unwise to put together a business plan that depends on skills you don't yet have.

I'll continue with my current social media (Twitter, Facebook, Pinterest, blog), although I'm going to try to put less time into it. The scheduler has already helped there, although if you're going that route, I'll warn you that it was a huge time sink for me up front. It took six solid weeks of many hours per day last fall, although part of that was making my graphic ads for short stories, books, and evergreen blog posts. I made sure I chose a scheduler that saved the posts (eclincher), so I should never have to work that hard at it again.

I'm going to try as many paid promotions as work, measured by expanding readership, particularly email list. I'd like to break even, but I can suck up small losses.

And I'm going to do some of the stuff on the Tim Grahl checklist, but not all of it. I'm not sinking nine months into every launch. I have too many books. So I'll try the stuff that takes maybe two months lead time.

I hope this helps someone out there. It took a year of my life to figure out this plan. And I don't even know if it will work yet. :)
.
 
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M. H. Lee

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Wow, a lot of posts came in. I need to get busy here. :)
M. H., I just went to Amazon and bought your book on AMS. I figure the last thing I need is to try to figure out all the stuff you already know. :)

And thank you so much for passing on the term noblebright. It is such a pain Googling fantasy. Most of the hits seem to be for fantasy football or sex stuff. Even trying fantasy fiction didn't help much. There's just too much football stuff out there.
Thank you! And let me know if you have any questions as you work through it. My email address should be included in the last chapter.

In terms of what to release and focus on: Novels. Especially in SFF. If your other choice is novelettes, put the effort more into novels.

I've followed a very winding road to where I am right now and I can say that my SFF shorter works did nothing. I get a few library sales on those titles through Kobo/Overdrive but that's really it. My romance shorter works sell better, so in romance I think there's more of a potential for shorter works to sell. But where I've seen real money is in novels and in non-fiction. Also, you have more advertising options with longer works. For example, Bookbub and Freebooksy both have page count requirements for what they'll accept.

And, for the record, I price my novels at $4.99 and save 99 cents for promos only, so I'm in the camp of charging a higher price for a full-length novel. But I do have a friend who did very well with an urban fantasy series that was $2.99 for all three titles and in KU.
 

CathleenT

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Thanks, MH. I've been pondering your advice, and I do want to work my prices upwards. Personally, I think if you can buy a paperback for ten bucks, then about half that is a fair price for an ebook. I don't blink at paying that myself.

But I'm not a normal person. I actually overpay contractors who work for us if I don't think they're charging enough (and I don't have to worry about putting food on the table, but we're hardly rich, not as most Americans would define it). If a good deal for me means someone else will have a tough time, I'd rather not have it.

But as I've learned from being a business owner, I can't market to me. I'm not part of a big enough demographic.

OTOH, I've read those who say they look squinty-eyed at books that are free or too cheap. They don't feel like they can be getting a quality product at that price, and over the long term, if someone is writing for income off $.99 books, they're probably right.

Writing novelettes may not be the best move in terms of dispassionate career advancement, but I may have to chalk it up to mental health. I need to write something new that's longer than a short story. I want some character development I can sink my teeth into.

Concerning novels, I just reread Bellerophon last night (first time in over a year), and sure, I futzed with a line here and there, but overall, the story was still good to me. I think I can publish it and be confident about not feeling embarrassed over it ten years from now.

I finalized my cover schedule with Deranged Doctor Design, and I've got five covers lined up for this year (including the new novelette). If my revision/editing schedule can keep up with that, it would be stellar to release five books or even close. I think it would certainly give my fledgling career a boost. Two of the cover appointments are this month, so I need to get busy with digital clean-up of my cover art paintings. :)
 
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M. H. Lee

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And the key is to realize that it's not like you can never make a different decision later. Try something, see if it works, and if it doesn't keep trying until you find something that does. The thing about pricing at lower levels is that if you want to make money you have to make that up with volume (or KU borrow revenue). Some manage that and do quite well that way. I found with my fantasy novel that people who wanted it, wanted it and people who didn't want it didn't suddenly jump all over it when it was cheaper. So for that particular book, it made more sense to be at $4.99. (Or more.)
 

CathleenT

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Something small, but it seemed noteworthy to me. I've been spending all my time editing and studying marketing since my latest novella stalled. The only thing I've written have been ads, blog posts, and newsletters.

Then I got this idea, and it wouldn't go away. A crow-shifter and a selkie walk into a bar...

Scenes flitted past in odd moments. Then I finally figured out how it ends.

Anyway, I started writing it. This is the first day I've been over a thousand words of fiction in months.

And you know what? Writing is FUN! Lots of it. How could I forget that? :)
 
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ASeiple

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Yes! Chase this sucker and enjoy the ride! These turn into the best stories...
 

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Something small, but it seemed noteworthy to me. I've been spending all my time editing and studying marketing since my latest novella stalled. The only thing I've written have been ads, blog posts, and newsletters.

Then I got this idea, and it wouldn't go away. A crow-shifter and a selkie walk into a bar...

Scenes flitted past in odd moments. Then I finally figured out how it ends.

Anyway, I started writing it. This is the first day I've been over a thousand words of fiction in months.

And you know what? Writing is FUN! Lots of it. How could I forget that? :)

Enjoy every second, Cathleen. :Hug2:
 

CathleenT

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A small update:

I have 500 subscribers! :snoopy:

500-subscribers.jpg


I know it's not that big a deal, but it felt like a victory to me, so I wanted to share it.

***

Also, regarding Pinterest:

pinterest-results-11-18.jpg


I've got a lot of boards. I'd expect the dragon board or the hobbit holes to do best, but last week my biggest results were from my books. That felt good, and productive, too. Pinterest seems to work well for fantasy authors. I've put way more work into my Facebook page for far fewer results.
 
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muse

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Whoo hoo! Celebrate all the good things, Cathleen - big and small.:partyguy:
 

Norman D Gutter

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Congrats on reaching that milestone.

But I must ask: 500 subscribers to what? Your blog? A social media platform?