Have you been hurt by Christians?

Have you been hurt by a Christian who is:

  • Family

    Votes: 18 51.4%
  • Friend

    Votes: 17 48.6%
  • Acquaintance

    Votes: 15 42.9%
  • Stranger

    Votes: 15 42.9%
  • I've never been hurt by a Christian that I know of.

    Votes: 6 17.1%
  • I refuse to be hurt. I won't give them any control of me.

    Votes: 8 22.9%
  • Other

    Votes: 5 14.3%

  • Total voters
    35
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nighttimer

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I didn't mean allies of 'black people'. I meant allies of you, the person behind the nick 'nighttimer' on a personal level. Now, anyone can be born into a shitty family, or they can be born into a great one. That's chance, luck, whatever.

But, I think it's reasonable to assume that when you were a kid, your mother or brother or sister would never call on you to 'stop being black'. They would never challenge your being black as a mark against your character and morals.

The most likely is that if you were a victim of racism or bigotry, your brothers or sisters, your parents, your uncles and aunts and grandparents were unlikely to turn on you for it. You have a shared characteristic with them and they would know your feelings. If you had a good family, they would pick you up in their lap and try to protect you, or to dry your tears.

LGBT kids don't have that. Not for sure. LGBT kids don't really know until they come out whether their family will be there for them, or if the family will reject them. In a way, we are exposed as aliens in their midst when our nature becomes apparent.

It's a big step to come out. Sometimes it's a too big a step, and disaster happens when they do, because they can't rely on their closest people.

Oh, I agree totally. The head of the Ohio State University Stonewall Union once told me in an interview, "Coming out is one of the bravest things a person can do."

What I would put an asterisk* on is "The most likely is that if you were a victim of racism or bigotry, your brothers or sisters, your parents, your uncles and aunts and grandparents were unlikely to turn on you for it. You have a shared characteristic with them and they would know your feelings."

That all goes out the window if you're Black and lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender. My best friend came out in high school and she instantly became dead to her father, brothers and relatives. They chopped her off at the ankles and didn't so much as offer a crutch.

The Black community knows plenty about the discrimination and intolerance it receives from without, but says little about the discrimination and intolerance it directs at those within the community who don't fit the orthodoxy.
 

Rhoda Nightingale

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I've been struggling with how to answer this question. I haven't encountered any outright hostility. But a lot of thoughtlessness disguised as goodwill and/or casual conversation. People, in the South anyway, have this way of expecting you to be their definition of "normal" if you look/act a certain way. I'm a friendly, open, helpful, educated and attentive library assistant. I don't have tattoos or piercings, and although I do dye my hair, it's still a "natural" looking color, and long. Sometimes I wear glasses. I look like a typical librarian. None of these things scream "queer" to the casual observer.

What can sometimes happen is I'll be in the middle of a random encounter with a total stranger, being my helpful and attentive self, and something awful will just fall out of their mouth. "This young man who does {thing} at {place}--he's gay, but he's really nice." Bzzzzaaaah, what? Are those things mutually exclusive? And then they start talking about their prayer group. It's weird.

That's just one example. But that's what I've experienced most often. People getting comfortable enough to assume that a nice, young lady like me would be One Of Them by default, and then they expose their prejudices and I get UNcomfortable. But it's entirely unintentional on their end. I think they think we're bonding.
 
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darkprincealain

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A Christian person in my family told my mother she'd failed as a mom and to drown me in the river.

Most of the other stuff hasn't been that outrightly hostile, and I definitely can say that Rhoda's second graph above feels more familiar than I care for.
 

CuddlyClementine

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My best friend was a devout Christian and I'd known her since I was 5. One day, in secondary school/high school, she decided to turn on me and told me my dad deserved to die. It was particularly painful because he died when I was 9 and she was there for me when it happened, she saw me go through it. She watched other kids bully me because my dad died, she comforted me when kids screamed "HAHA! You don't have a dad!" and she still used it against me. This happened before I realised I was bisexual and it made me wary of Christians. After I realised, I was even more wary.
 

Maxinquaye

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The Black community knows plenty about the discrimination and intolerance it receives from without, but says little about the discrimination and intolerance it directs at those within the community who don't fit the orthodoxy.

There’s nothing I dispute in what you’re saying. :greenie I'm just trying to say that I’m reluctant to draw an equivalence between black emancipation and LGBT emancipation, and part of the reason for that is how the two communities are constructed. It just feels wrong to ride the coattails of another community's struggle when the root problems are quite different.


Like I said above, ethnic communities share an outward characteristic that is judged by external forces rather than internal ones. An externally prejudged characteristic likely makes it easier to band together to fight the prejudice because the explicit characteristic will foster solidarity and cohesion. In my response above, that's where Auntie or Mother or Cousin picks up little Jimmy to dry his tears after suffering racism.


There is no such obvious characteristic within the LGBT community. As you say, in some parts of the black community, going low-down is reviled. Partly because of the strength of Churches in those communities. So, we’re back to the reason the OP posted this thread.


One of the obstacles for our (LGBT folks) struggle is to convince people to join the community in the first place. Very often, inclusion means overcoming an internalized stigma. It’s about winning over people who feel shame for what they are, and who do not want to associate with a community that celebrate and laud their shame. That's often not successful, because people retreat into the closet, pretend to be heterosexuals, and loudly argue against their own nature and their own community.


See the whole 'straight acting' thing. One of the defining things about it is the rejection of mannerisms that is considered 'gay'. It comes up with loud moaning about things like pride parades. It comes up in things like GOProud, a sickening little corner of the Republican party which tries to eradicate LGBT culture through assimilation to the worst aspects of homophobic conservative culture. One could say that the Log Cabin republicans are a bit of the same, although I have a soft spot for them. They're very deluded, but without them there wouldn't be marriage equality in the US now. They carried much of the fight in the courts.


When I volunteered, which I still do, it was often about talking people off mental buildings to convince them that the thing they’re so ashamed about, is something they can accept. The first task of our community is then to convince reluctant people, who suffer the poison of the wider community, to join our sub-grouping. To overcome their shame. To make them accept the wild-eyed premise that they needn't be alone. They have people they can talk to about this.


Black people, Jewish people, Muslims are inherent communities with a functioning defence mechanism built in. They already have the numbers that can pick up the members and dry their eyes. We on the other hand come from those other communities. We’re black or white, Jewish or Christian, rich or poor, rural or urban. There’s nothing outward that separates us from our innate ethnic communities. It’s just that from age 10-12 we discover this extra characteristic in ourselves.


A characteristic that, crudely, makes people associate us with sex. When little Jim or little Jane at age 11 or 13 discover they’re attracted to the same gender, the assumption people make is that little Jim or little Jane is thinking about who and how to fuck. That’s creepy. In cultures celebrating the innocence of kids, that’s beyond the pale. Parents aren't prepared for the fact that their little angels become sexual creatures. And so, it’s something they often reject.


While sex is an effect – the cause is the romantic attraction to the same gender where I’d still be gay if I never had sex – it is the thing that pastors and cardinals and bishops bring up all the time. Leviticus is a ban against sexual practise. Since it’s about sex, there is shame. And since there is shame, each of us is alone and needs to be convinced to join a community based on what we’re ashamed of.


We’re all alone, without a community, until we overcome the first and greatest obstacle. Our own shame, which has been put in each and every one of us by Christians with access to the megaphones and bully pulpits of our culture.


But, I agree with everything you say otherwise.
 

KTC

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That all goes out the window if you're Black and lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender. My best friend came out in high school and she instantly became dead to her father, brothers and relatives. They chopped her off at the ankles and didn't so much as offer a crutch.

This happens to a lot of LGBTQ people...regardless of skin colour. I no longer know what my parents look like. I can speak of being cut off from family. I am white.
 

miss marisa

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This happens to a lot of LGBTQ people...regardless of skin colour. I no longer know what my parents look like. I can speak of being cut off from family. I am white.

Yeah, it does happen, but nighttimer was responding to a post that made it sound as though black lgbtq people had more support than white lgbtq people because they have a community that supports them in facing other kinds of bigotry, which is simply not true. The post seemed to erase black lgbtq who do not have the support of their family due to the fact that they're lgbtq.

It may not have been what Maxinquaye intended, but that's what nighttimer was reacting to.

As for reactions from Christians...I've known good and bad. I used to be Christian, and when I told my Christian friends that I was toying with the idea of agnosticism, the reaction wasn't great. I haven't come out to anyone but a few trusted people yet, so I can't comment on that. But, I have some friends who are lgbtq and Christian. Some of them have been isolated, but others have had good experiences with their church. It depends on the community, I think.

The worst of it usually comes from older Christians or hardcore fundamentalists that take every verse from The Bible a little too literal. And as Rhoda says, a lot of it can come in microaggression and comments that seem innocent when really you know they're judging you.
 
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DancingMaenid

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I don't think the point was that black LGBTQ people have more familial support. I think the point is that racial minorities typically have support from their families when it comes to race. Unless someone is adopted, at least some of their family members are going to share their race and be able to relate to them on that level. Most LGBTQ people have straight, cisgender parents, and some have no LGBTQ relatives (at least that they know of).

It's a general comparison between racism and homophobia/transphobia, not the treatment of white LGBTQ youth vs. black LGBTQ youth. That's not to say that one group has it easier than the other. It's just a fact that racial/ethnic minorities are more likely to come from families who share that identity, which can create a different home dynamic when it comes to responses to prejudice.
 
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scifi_boy2002

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I am Christian and as far as I know, I've never hurt anyone. At least not on purpose. I'm not perfect, but I've always lived by the creed love your neighbor as yourself. I don't judge others. I have both Christian and Atheist friends. I think all people should be treated the same. I consider so-called "Christians" that don't love their neighbors as themselves and judge people not Christians. No true Christian would deny anyone services because of their beliefs or stand in their way in their pursuit of happiness. Of course, there are differnt beliefs within the Christain faith. I live in Kentucky and just in my small town, their are countless churchs that believe different things. I don't consider myself a member of any particular church. But yes, many "Christians" are so intent on putting people down, they forget the true meaning of Christianity which is love.
 

Maxinquaye

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I didn't mean allies of 'black people'. I meant allies of you, the person behind the nick 'nighttimer' on a personal level. Now, anyone can be born into a shitty family, or they can be born into a great one. That's chance, luck, whatever.

But, I think it's reasonable to assume that when you were a kid, your mother or brother or sister would never call on you to 'stop being black'. They would never challenge your being black as a mark against your character and morals.

The most likely is that if you were a victim of racism or bigotry, your brothers or sisters, your parents, your uncles and aunts and grandparents were unlikely to turn on you for it. You have a shared characteristic with them and they would know your feelings. If you had a good family, they would pick you up in their lap and try to protect you, or to dry your tears.

LGBT kids don't have that. Not for sure. LGBT kids don't really know until they come out whether their family will be there for them, or if the family will reject them. In a way, we are exposed as aliens in their midst when our nature becomes apparent.

It's a big step to come out. Sometimes it's a too big a step, and disaster happens when they do, because they can't rely on their closest people.

I do not understand how the above post from me can be construed as the following:

Yeah, it does happen, but nighttimer was responding to a post that made it sound as though black lgbtq people had more support than white lgbtq people because they have a community that supports them in facing other kinds of bigotry, which is simply not true. The post seemed to erase black lgbtq who do not have the support of their family due to the fact that they're lgbtq.

It may not have been what Maxinquaye intended, but that's what nighttimer was reacting to.

Am I that bad at communicating?
 
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