Pope Francis and the Changing Catholic Church.

Status
Not open for further replies.

mccardey

Self-Ban
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 10, 2010
Messages
19,213
Reaction score
15,827
Location
Australia.
Francis seems to be stirring the waters again, this time on the very vexed issue of abortion. According to this report
The Catholic Church teaches that abortion is a sin that could be grounds for excommunication. Women in the Catholic Church who have had abortions have been able to confess, but the pope has expanded the number of priests who can hear their confession during the upcoming year that will be considered a "year of mercy."

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/world/pope-fr...y-year-of-mercy-20150901-gjcyyx#ixzz3kdE9qsID

I'm interested in a reforming Pope, and I wonder how reformable the Church actually might be? I'm also wondering how reforms might play out in nations that still adhere to earlier dogmas - especially in the developing world. I wonder if a Francis-styled approach to Catholicism might lead to the an upswing in the kind of relevance the Church is missing now - and whether a groundswell of that sort might be strong enough to topple the hierarchy who'd prefer to stick to the old dispensation.

The Church Political: it will be interesting to see what it's made of today, I think. How will it play?
 

JetFueledCar

tiny hedgehog
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jul 17, 2015
Messages
1,125
Reaction score
159
Location
Internet native
The Church is old, old, old--but it does change and adapt when there's a need. One of the more vexing tenets of Catholic social teaching, birth control, has been adapted. In nations where HIV/AIDS is a serious problem, there's some slack. I think a bishop visited a Catholic health center in one of those countries and when asked what to do he basically pointed to the cabinet and went "This drawer: Catholic. This drawer: Catholic. This drawer: Not Catholic." In other words put the condoms in there and use them for what they should be used for--preventing the spread of deadly diseases. (Not to say that they shouldn't also be used to prevent unwanted pregnancy, because I'm actually that elusive creature a pro-choice Catholic, but still.)

Anyway, point is, the Church isn't as inflexible as people make it out to be sometimes. But changing on a larger scale, moving forward seriously, takes time. Inertia is proportionate to mass, after all, and the Church is ​big.
 

RichardGarfinkle

Nurture Phoenixes
Staff member
Moderator
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jan 2, 2012
Messages
11,140
Reaction score
3,082
Location
Walking the Underworld
Website
www.richardgarfinkle.com
It's an interesting question. In my life there have been two such popes John XXIII and Francos I. Also in that time the Catholic Church has been confronted as many religions have been with changing societies and worldly knowledge and understanding.

What strikes me about both of these men is that they were in the trenches sorts of priests who tried to maintain contact with people both within and outside the church. Their attempts at change look to be based on practice informing theory, not theory forcing practice.

I suspect that some form of reform is inevitable, if only because of the disparity on many matters between the actions of the laity and the demands of the hierarchy.

In the past the hierarchy was often backed up with legal authority to enforce its decrees. Nowadays, it lacks that power and in all probability, it will need to change rather than being able to force change.
 

bombergirl69

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 12, 2015
Messages
1,594
Reaction score
400
Location
Montana
I agree Richard about Pope John XXIII...pretty extraordinary! too bad he didn't live long enough to see Vatican II.

I think Francis is doing an amazing job, given the structure of the RCC. I think the RCC has actually become more relevant under him as more people resonate with his message(s).
 

mccardey

Self-Ban
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 10, 2010
Messages
19,213
Reaction score
15,827
Location
Australia.
Anyway, point is, the Church isn't as inflexible as people make it out to be sometimes. But changing on a larger scale, moving forward seriously, takes time. Inertia is proportionate to mass, after all, and the Church is ​big.
Yes - in that sense I wonder if it will be a race between Francis getting the progressive church to back change, and the hierarchy using the more conservative sections (especially in impoverished, devout countries) to push back. It's that kind of battleground of ideologies that will possibly do more damage to the Church itself, I think, than simple progressive changes would do.

I'm lapsed myself, but I feel that this might become a positive time to look back on. I'm with Francis on most things - even the ones I happen to disagree on. (For myself, I don't think abortion needs to be forgiven. For the Catholics who feel it does, I think this is a step in a good direction. Not the exact right direction - not yet. But a good direction.)
 

Kylabelle

unaccounted for
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jan 3, 2013
Messages
26,200
Reaction score
4,015
Here is this pope's response to the refugee crisis: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/07/world/europe/pope-calls-on-europeans-to-house-refugees.html

The Vatican will house two families, which seems more symbolic than effective given the numbers, but the pope is calling on all churches and parishes to open their doors as well, which could well generate alchemy of some kind, though it's hard to forecast how churches and parishes will act on this.

Something to watch in any case.
 

Rufus Coppertop

Banned
Flounced
Joined
May 24, 2009
Messages
3,935
Reaction score
948
Location
.
The next steps I'd love to see are: priestesses, secular clergy, the revival of plainchant, the revival of polyphony, all catholic schools obliged to teach part singing and the universal revival of the Tridentine rite in Latin.

It's difficult to see why secular clergy shouldn't be a goer. It was good enough for the entire church until that pesky Gregory VII got a bee in his bonnet about simony in about 1050.
 
Last edited:

mccardey

Self-Ban
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 10, 2010
Messages
19,213
Reaction score
15,827
Location
Australia.
I would go to your church, Rufus - that's a lovely church. I do miss the Latin of my childhood and plainsong should be a weekly Thing.
 

Rufus Coppertop

Banned
Flounced
Joined
May 24, 2009
Messages
3,935
Reaction score
948
Location
.
It would be fun all right. I'd have to skip the genuflecting and holy communion though because, you know.....Buddhist.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.