diyMFA?

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Marianne Kirby

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This seems particularly apt for the novel writers -- or maybe I'm just biased since that's what I write. So I wondered if anyone here has done or is doing the diyMFA:

http://diymfa.com/

It looks pretty dang interesting, even just the parts that are free. I'm particularly interested in the focused reading worksheet that you can download -- and the formula as a whole seems really sound.

Thoughts?

(And I'm not bashing a regular MFA, nor do I think that's the intent of this website -- so I'd rather not get into it about the relative value of an actual MFA because they are pretty great, too. Okay, disclaimer disclaimed.)
 

veinglory

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I think calling it DIY MFA is cute as an analogy but otherwise wildly misleading. MFA is not just reading, writing and community, it is accredited education and direct mentoring by successful authors.
 
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Marianne Kirby

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I think it depends on what you want to get out of an MFA -- if you feel the need for the letters after you name, it certainly wouldn't suit. If you are after the skills and the networking, I think it's interesting. As I said, I think regular MFAs are pretty great. But I think this does actually address a gap in accessibility and that makes it kind of fascinating. I mean, there IS direct mentoring and I'm not sure who the faculty are for this but I know the faculty at the area colleges around me are varying degrees of successful. *laugh*

It reminds me a bit of people who are inventing their own jobs because the traditional job market is so very effed up right now. I love self-directed learning, so I'm curious if anyone here has tried this particular program.
 

veinglory

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I don't disagree with that but they are calling it an MFA in a very literal way that I think many people will not realize is a metaphor, not a reality. Whatever wonderful things it may get you, possibly even better than some real MFA's--it is not an MFA.
 

atombaby

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I second Veinglory.

I have participated in diyMFA to a small degree but I can get the same information and help elsewhere, too. There are plenty of "programs" out there that you can pay for to help with learning to write. diyMFA won't give you a real MFA, obviously, but for folks who don't have the time or resources to get a masters degree, it can be helpful. In its beginning, diyMFA consisted of helpful emails, blog posts, etc., pretty much the same material that I get from other websites, but over the past year or two I've seen it transform into paid services and self-promotion. I won't take anything away from Gabriela, she is a great and helpful person and knows her stuff. But all the time I've spent on self-help books and courses (i.e. procrastinating) was time I should've been spending writing.

If it piques your interest, then go for it! It'll only be helpful in the long run anyway.
 

Jamesaritchie

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I don't disagree with that but they are calling it an MFA in a very literal way that I think many people will not realize is a metaphor, not a reality. Whatever wonderful things it may get you, possibly even better than some real MFA's--it is not an MFA.

Give people more credit. Anyone who doesn't understand that this is a not a real MFA is probably still playing the Original Mario game, if they've learned it yet. Of course this is not an MFA, but it's still the best way to describe it.

You know it's not an MFA, so why think others are less intelligent or less perceptive than you are?
 

Jamesaritchie

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There are always exceptions, such as the write who spends his or her life writing the same popcorn book over and over, but most successful writers either give themselves the equivalent of an MFA, or better, or they fail.

Yes, you can get the same information elsewhere, but you can go to any of those places and say the same thing. I can get the information elsewhere. So what? You have to get it somewhere, and this place looks better than most, and has more info than most other single sites.

No, this is not a "real" MFA. Who cares? It is real information that a writer can use, and a lot of it. I've never seen a case where learning was a bad thing. I have seen many cases where writers make excuses for not learning. Cases for not learning basic grammar and punctuation because they don't have the time, or because they're writers, not editors, or because they'd rather be writing than learning the basic tools of writing, etc. I've seen cases for not learning any of the rules because they are no rules, cases for not reading because they don't like to read, on and on.

No, this is not a "real" MFA. Fine, but how many are getting a "real" MFA? Yes, you can get this same information elsewhere, but how many are actually going elsewhere and getting all this information? My guess is very darned few to both questions.
 

morngnstar

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You know it's not an MFA, so why think others are less intelligent or less perceptive than you are?

And anyway the OP also made clear that it's not a real MFA.

I'm interested. If I could get the experience of an MFA program, I wouldn't really care if I got a piece of paper with three letters on it. I just can't tell if this diyMFA is at all comparable an experience. It looks not the different from just a blog or this site.
 

Marianne Kirby

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I think one thing that appeals to me about it is the emphasis on community. I participate here a bit but I wouldn't consider myself a part of the community -- just because the community is really big and really established! But I have been putting a lot of effort into building more relationships within my local community (which is so freaking full of writers that I am astounded none of them seem to be here).

Right now I'm working on a focused reading list -- and it's one of those things I could use help with so I actually wish I had the resources of an MFA program! (I'm looking for examples of Southern Gothic literature written by people of color, so if you've got any suggestions...)

I was talking with a friend on Facebook about motivation and really being immersed in writing is a strong thread -- so I think the multimedia products from diyMFA are serving a purpose and this forum is serving a purpose and the state-specific writing group I started on Facebook is serving a purpose and all of the local events are serving a purpose, too. And there's no reason not to engage in some fashion with all of them -- there's opportunities for learning all over the place.
 

juniper

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If I could get the experience of an MFA program, I wouldn't really care if I got a piece of paper with three letters on it.

I think the MFA paper would matter most to those who need it for specific jobs - teaching or other jobs that require the post-grad work.

I'd like to do a (real) MFA just for personal satisfaction - if I had the time and money. Maybe someday.
 

Pyekett

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Looks like something that could be useful for many writers, especially those at the beginning of their careers.

An actual MFA gets you feedback from someone more likely to tell you that you're on the wrong track. That's valuable in a world of Dunning-Kruger landmines.

Added: Doesn't mean there isn't value at the diyMFA site. Does mean it's worth evaluating what you're getting. Same as when you use any source.

Also added: Most of the artistic people I know fall into one of three camps: those that need to hear Ira Glass' quote on creative work, those that need to read up on the Dunning-Kruger effect, or those that need both.

I know few who will get as far as they can without specific feedback from someone who both knows what they are doing and is getting paid not to pull punches with it. Of course, people can still improve, but hard-nosed feedback is one of the few shortcuts.

I have little faith in people knowing what they need. That's okay. Other people don't need my faith. I wish them well anyway. For my friends, I wish them courage to seek out hard things. Some of them do, and some of them do it here, not through an MFA program. A lot of them think they do it, but they don't.
 
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bearilou

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I like the idea in concept but...I keep waiting for the pitch to join her exclusive 'tribe' (or community or army or whatever the current popular lingo is for private forum) and the month/annual subscription fee.

And the advertise push for her products and books and classes.

edit to add: ah! found it!
 
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I like being upfront about things, and if it's an "improve your writing" program, that's great. A Master's in Fine Arts is something different, and I dislike the claim that it's "just as good as" a rigorous course of study like an MFA. It's like having a health site and calling it a "DIY MD degree". Doesn't mean that the site has bad information, but it makes me think they have an inflated sense of self-importance.
 

Marianne Kirby

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I like the idea in concept but...I keep waiting for the pitch to join her exclusive 'tribe' (or community or army or whatever the current popular lingo is for private forum) and the month/annual subscription fee.

And the advertise push for her products and books and classes.

edit to add: ah! found it!

As I said in my original post, I think even the free stuff is interesting -- I don't think there's any "hidden" push for the class, which is pretty evident, I think. I also don't think there's anything wrong with charging money for a course of rigorous study. I haven't found anyone here who has taken the diyMFA course, so I am still curious as to how rigorous it is.
 

WeaselFire

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This seems particularly apt for the novel writers...

Probably not as much as the site makes it sound. The only real advantage for a MFA is the piece of paper. It's accreditation from a university and allows the holder entry into the world of academia. Beyond that, it's not a truly practical career choice for most people.

As for the online learning, which you would do by reading various materials, why not just read the materials? As in reading books in your genre to see how they work. Or fail. The course described on the web site doesn't seem to actually have valid peer review or discussion, or even mentoring by a professional, so what advantage would there be to sending them money for this?

This course may appeal to many, and even be effective for some, but it's pretty much hype and sales from what appears on the site. If someone spends the money and it gives them the impetus to write, that may be all they need to do.

Jeff
 

veinglory

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If you go to a selective MFA with mentoring the advantage can be a critically acclaimed published book before you even graduate. I did my graduate work in the sciences but there was an MFA at the same university that I saw "make" many novelists careers. So it is not necessarily just "a piece of paper".
 
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