The Daily Rejection, Vol. 2

pingle said:

When's PitMad? I tried one twitter thing with the last book and got nowhere. I agree with Hester, the stuff getting the likes had focus on the comps, usually THIS VERY POPULAR FILM meets THIS HUGE COMPUTER GAME or THIS MUCH DISCUSSED TV SERIES, which weirded me out as I'm very much a book person and would only think of other books comp wise.

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I very much agree with y'all, even though I was a perp lol. When I first started doing twitter pitches, I didn't add comps and I realized how differently it went for people who had comps v didn't. I really like making comps just because they make cool sounding stories

If you can't beat them, join them
I quite like the sound of CIRCE meets THE ROAD for mine.

I'm attempting yet another query and I hate it
I hate how cheap and hollow the story sounds when condensed into (currently) 220 words.
Has anyone ever really loved their query?

I used Wilder Girls and Sawkill Girls as my comps last time and I got a really good number of likes. A lot of the ones you see with 100+ have friends/random people liking them and not necessarily agents. I think it's important to keep going as well - if you only post once then you're not going to get much interest, but if you post once every 3-4 hours and rework it each time, you'll have much better luck. You've just got to work very hard on your pitch and make sure it's the best it can be each time.

pingle said:

Has anyone ever really loved their query?

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No, but non-writerly folks LOVE the blurbs that I've written with the help of folks here. Even though everyone here agrees my blurb sucks? My reading non-writerly friends say "Wow!"

LOL. 2 cents.

MG/YA gets huge numbers of likes compared to A.

I suspect MG/YA agents are on twitter more than A agents.

I can't wait to get back to writing. I'm salivating at the thought of pit madding my next book.

OMG. I could pit mad my next book.

</Patty runs off to consider the ethics of this.>

I wish I had something for PitMad... I haven't been able to write anything in over a year aside from this one short story I'm trying to place... I have a dozen half-finished projects and just no heart for any of it.

But good luck to anyone who IS pitching, or doing NaNo, or submitting queries!

Raggy, have a giant R cookie with extra chocolate chips. And lots of adult beverages. (A consolation carrot?!? What is the world coming to?)

And everyone else who needs one, too. A cookie, that is. Not a carrot.

I've spent the day rejecting agents. Granted I'm persnickety, but I really expected to be finding more people I'd be excited to work with. And who rep my genre; one or the other I can manage, but both together has been a rare combination of late. Feeling very discouraged about the whole process right now.

Sending good thoughts to goddess, even if you're not online to read them.

Tamlyn, I'm right there with you on the short stories. I should probably be making a big push to capitalize on that recent sale, but... maybe in December.

noranne, sounds typical for this point in NaNo. Keep going!

CJSimone - Deep breath, and click Send.

Torill, passing you the kleenex box along with an R cookie. I'm still trying to shake the souvenir cold I brought home from England, so I sympathize.

pingle - If we could do our stories justice in 250 words or less, we wouldn't need to write novels. Therefore the whole concept of the query is fundamentally flawed, and we should all scrap it and eat chocolate instead.

(Right, can you all tell I'm in a mood this evening?)

So, finally read up on all your posts since I was here last.

Thank you, RaggyCat, hester, pingle, and Liz_V . I am disappointed, yes, but not crushed – and yes, hester – I'm gonna have me some revenge querying this very weekend!

Thanks to everyone encouraging and advising me on my writing projects, too, what to choose, what to write. Still thinking about it –due to my head cold and all I haven't done much of anything this past week, except continued to dabble a bit in my research for book two. We'll see where I land – maybe doing both the new and the old project? Researching, while writing something new …

goddessofgliese – If you read this far back when you come back to the thread: Hope your surgery went well and you are well on your way to full recovery by now! Here's your rejection cake: – and good on you buying those clothes. Treat yourself, that's the way to deal with this madness, really. (and don't worry about being uplifting, this is where we come to vent and share and get sympathy from fellow queryfighters, right? That's what makes this thread so wonderful! If all we could do was being uplifting here, we might as well close this whole thread down…)
Maybe it would be a good idea to start that adult fantasy project while you're still waiting/querying that YA one? - all is not lost yet, with 9 outstanding…
As for what I write: – I write what I have decided to call contemporary fantasy – although it all happens in a fictitious Western European city where I get to place everything where I want it and don't have to be historically accurate at all, but

RaggyCat irects the chocolate factory to start sending the rest of this year's production your way right now: Carrots won't do, not at all! Have a double cake too, for both this bummer and the form rejection one: I hear you about the self doubt and anxiety and anger, too – but wait a bit before you start tinkering too much with your opening chapters, just because of this one agent's feedback. I'm holding back on my urge to start editing my manuscript, too – maybe if I come to agree about the pacing in a couple of weeks by now, then maybe – we'll see. Feedback is gold dust, yes, but not always right…

(I like your analogy of internet dating when it comes to 'dream' agents/agents who seem to match but ends up rejecting: it is about the actual storytelling, not the story elements. Just like it is about the real man, not his various likes and interests. So the agent who rejected me liked a lot of elements in my story – but not the actual story itself… )

CJSimone – yes, it is strange how agent preference and betafeedback don't fit, that it seems your 'best' books are not what sparks agent interest. But I wonder – our betas are a limited and perhaps not representative segment of the market after all – agents are maybe more tuned in to what the larger market may want. Or not. It's about taste too, isn't it, that strange, elusive thing… But if ALL of them seem to gravitate towards one and not the other, maybe they are onto something. I do get that funny feeling about the process, though, yes, and how to insert an unknown 'spark' into your story – because what is that, what does it take for them to fall in love… Sigh.
Can't advise you on sending revised version out to those who still have your full – I guess it depends on whether you really truly feel that the revised version is the stronger one, not only one made for that particular agent that they might like (and you like too, obviously)…

zmethos – you've had three different agents, too? It so scares me, these stories of maybe having to go through several agents – but how I admire you (and Putputt too!) - that you're still here, still in the trenches, not giving up! Take some time away from your manuscript, that sounds like a good idea. Crossing all my fingers for you!!


ap123 thanks for the hugs and cookies – and wine! I am so so sorry about your husband – sending all my good thoughts your way. Hope you are not alone, that you have the support you need in this difficult time. I'm glad to hear you're able to write, and that it gives you some comfort. Don't worry about having to keep up with this thread, you don't – come here and post whenever it helps you, if it does. Do what you need to cope. Will be thinking of you anyway.

pingle – I'll pm you about the beta thing. And no, I don't love any of my queries, let alone writing them! Good luck with yours. And CIRCE meets THE ROAD? Ooo, that sounds fabulous!

Bummer that your markets were closed, Tamlyn Good luck next month, though!Yes, you're writing noranne, that is a good thing. That feeling of not having a good manuscript doesn't mean it can't become that, after revising, or even now – a writer's confidence is such a fickle thing. Good luck with all that's going on in the rest of your life, too. Here's hoping things will look up soon. And do let us now when your short story is out!!

Sounds really good to have that relationshiop with the smaller press editor, Patty – you never know, maybe your next project is something you'd like to trade publish, and then…

Liz_V – revenge shopping – hah! I like that … And yes, the whole process is maddening as hell, and the 250 word query demon spawn itself – but I'm still going to go for some revenge querying this weekend…

Good luck to everyone doing or thinking of doing PitMad!

Sorry you;re a bit down, Liz. I know the feeling. It may be that on another day you find many more possible agents - it often works like that. Consolation carrots suck, I agree, so I shan't offer you one. :lol:

The next #PitMad is 5 Dec (I've linked in case anyone wants to read up on it). I agree with everyone who has brought up comps - in a one line pitch, the comp titles probably speak louder than anything else. My comps are ONE OF US IS LYING (or GOOD GIRL'S GUIDE TO MURDER which isn't a book I personally loved but nev' mind) meets MOXIE and classic AGATHA CHRISTIE, so more of the 'this book is X mixed with Y and also Z" variety. I could also try just having OOUIL and GGGTM as comps rather than that instead and see if I get better luck. But yeah, I think they say more about the book than I could in a line.

pingle, I don't know THE ROAD but you should totally comp with CIRCE! It may be because I've just finished reading Circe but your book really did remind me of it.

Has anyone ever really loved their query?

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I don't love mine, but I think it's clear and makes the book sound interesting. Although, one thing I did wonder was whether it gives a false sense of my MC, as it makes her sound very gutsy and ballsy and strong, whereas while she is gutsy and strong, it's more in a quiet way. I'm very much hoping that shifting a later scene to the start (which links very well with the query, actually) might overcome it.

But no. I don't think anyone loves queries. They come across as trite and superficial and I often hate the need for voice. But they're annoyingly necessary.

Well I'm glad I'm not alone in hating my query. Now does it make my book sound interesting...? Hmm.
And of course I'm never quite sure what UK agents want, for me to show them a story and stakes and motivation and active MC (QLH style), or a back cover blurb type enticement.

5th of December! Oooh, I usually hear about these things the day before. I'll try to come up with a few tweets.
Raggy, thank you for saying it reminds you of CIRCE, huge compliment that I'm not worthy of, but yay, I loved CIRCE! The road is a bleak post-apocalyptic father child journey. I'd be using it as a bit of a joke really (my MC and his child do go on a journey together).

Liz, sorry you're not having much joy finding a good fit. If I'm honest, loads of the agents on my list don't seem the best fit book wise, in that they might ask for historical or mention fantasy, but I'm sure they don't mean the strange blend I've come up with. It is quite disheartening.

Pingle - the blurb on the cover letter for UK agents is nowhere as detailed as the US query (like in QLH), it's actually closer from a back cover blurb. Something that can help are the following videos:

Author Will Dean shared the query letter that landed him an agent - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUU3mpZGakg&list=PLx61V_1FLVRNVSbastOtiMdtNww83cJzz&index=3&t=1s

UK agent Sarah Manning on how to hook an agent (I think the query stuff starts around the 4:20 min mark): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCD3BRREoK0&t

Hope this helps!

Woohoo for possibly having some #PitMad company on 5 Dec! I annoyingly missed #PitDark (which is another similar Twitter pitch thing aimed at mysteries/thrillers/horror etc) by a couple of days and that would have been even better for me. #PitMad is totally general so anyone can participate. I'm trying to persuade my dad to give it a go. He has a historical WW2 book he wrote years ago and revised recently that I'd love him to get some traction on.

pingle - I found my US style query very helpful when it came to writing the paras for the UK letters - I just adapted and cut it down. I also cut the query down to get a 1 para pitch and a 3 line pitch which different agents asked for. So, once you've got it, you can use it as the basis for whatever you need. While it's better to use the UK style for UK agents, I've read that most of them will accept the US style without complaint.

EDIT: Torill, we looped posts this morning and I missed yours. I'm glad you're not too down about the full R and turning things over in your head. Perhaps you can manage working on two projects at once especially if one is skewed towards research at present? I haven't ever written two books concurrently myself, but I've written a book and worked on a graphic novel at the same time, so for me anyway it's possible to engage with two immersive and creative words. Either way, I suspect the answer will come to you organically.

I can't change the queries I have out at the moment - it may be that there is a problem with the start and that will be revealed, or it may be that the Rs I've had so far are outliers. Too early to tell. But I do have time so I'm experimenting with the new start, and if I like it more I'll use it for any requests I get from the 5 Dec #PitMad. I might also do a small test with an agent I have a personal link with who doesn't participate in #PitMad and I suspect will give me feedback even if she Rs. So, a plan!

Hi everyone. It's so touching, reading through all your messages.

Isn't it amazing, how we all bounce back?

Pingle, Circe is definitely a good comp for the UK, especially as the author's previous novel was quite different (Song of Achilles). Suggests that you're doing something unusual with the fantasy element.

RaggyCat, I'll keep trying to think of new comps for you, as we seem to be in a similar genre zone.

Good luck everyone.

I'm tweaking prior to sending out more, after my agent rejection.

Ooh! Sound the Full Request klaxon!

(Just as I was rewriting Chapter 1 and liking it more this way, lol. Time to eat a celebratory carrot).

That's awesome! I hope it is from a dreamy agent, if not the dream agent.

I keep learning from the details and experiences shared here even though I'm not in the trenches... Thank you everyone who is posting. I love the shared links and so on and so forth...

In terms of queries... I'm doing Nano at the minute and actually prefer my query to my MS! I keep looking back at the query to try and remember the point of what I'm writing. I usually write non-chronologically and pants instead of plan/plot, but I think I've gone wrong with this one. It feels too ambitious for me, especially because it's in first person and I usually only write third. Torn between stopping trying to hit the wordcount and fixing it up now or dragging myself through to 50K and then sorting it all out.

Raggy - *inset emoji of a dancing carrot*

YAY RaggyCat!!!!!!

Ragggy! YAY!!!!

Elle, thanks for the links, will have a watch of them now.

Raggy - Yay full! Your eyesight is going to be excellent for reading an eventual contract, with all these carrots.

aceafer - Keep on plugging at NaNo. It's only, what, another week or so? (Which I know sounds like forever at this point -- but it gets shorter every day!)

Torill said:

it all happens in a fictitious Western European city where I get to place everything where I want it and don't have to be historically accurate at all

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This is why I like writing SF better than reality-compliant espionage -- I can just make stuff up. Soooo freeing.

Working on two things at once -- why not? Play with them both, and if one takes over your brain to the exclusion of the other, there's your answer.

I actually kind of like my current query. I'm not too sure about the comps, but I think the story part is zingy and gives a good feel for the book. Mind you, I thought that about all six of my queries for the last book when I started using them, and eventually came to think that at least five of them were barking up the wrong forest, so what does that prove?

pingle - With my last book, I was playing in the border-lands of a lot of agents' genre lists too; it was espionage, which is sort of thriller and sort of suspense, and mystery often encompasses it, and I've noticed that a lot of agents who mostly do literary or "commercial" fiction will also go for some flavor of m/t/s. But science fiction is a very different animal; agents seem to draw a much harder line around it. And the current book isn't going to work for someone who wants "literary with genre leanings" or some such -- it's straight up unapologetic space opera. I need an SF agent, which is a much smaller pool.

Another thing I'm running up against, and I realize I'm going against the majority here, is that I do not want a super-editorial agent. I was listening to an interview recently where the agent was waxing enthusiastic about how much she liked digging into a book and tearing it apart and... she didn't quite say "putting my own stamp on it", but it was something to that effect. And I'm thinking, you want to put your stamp on a book, write your own d@mn book. Another pair of eyes on the MS is always welcome, but at the end of the day, I want an agent, not a co-author.

I'm wondering if more editorial agents also tend to be more active on social media? I know there are less-editorially-inclined agents out there, but I'm not finding many of them.

Thanks, everyone! You guys are the best.
The full may well not go anywhere but at the very least it's the chance to get some feedback, and, after the R that stung on Wednesday, it was well timed. And yes, it's an agency I'd love to be part of, lovely email too. Anyway. We'll see.

Pastelnudes - Thanks for that comment about the comps! I think our books aren't similar in and of themselves but knowing what I do of yours, I can see how the comps might overlap. Another comp for me I thought of earlier is STAGS by M.A. Bennett. It's more thriller than mystery but has a focus on privilige and wealth which is a theme in mine. What are your comp titles? I know you mentioned the pace of OOUIL if I recall correctly.

aceafer - In your shoes, I think I'd stop and work out what isn't quite gelling in the MS rather than racing to hit the NaNo target. NaNo is awesome but if it isn't quite working for you at this point, you're not under obligation to adhere to it. In the past I've usually ploughed to the finishline before going and sorting things out, but with this most recent project I stopped and rewrote parts I knew weren't right before continuing. That felt a better approach. Buuuut... I am very much a planner, not a pantser, so that approach may not work. Either way, you have some words to play with, and I'm sure you'll get there!

Liz - I get what you mean about super-editorial agents, but I think what editorial means varies massively. I also have a suspicion that many agents say they're editorial because it's often comforting for authors and is what many people want - but in reality, they might not meddle with the text too much. For example, my former agent has said in a few interviews that she's editorial, but I never found her feedback obtrusive or super-detailed, which suited me fine (and no, I don't think that was because my prose was especially good! :rofl. So in your position I'd go ahead and query widely and not worry about the editorial thing - you can always ask about that if you get to speak to the agent in question.

pingle - You may have seen this but I saw an announcement of a book titled ARIADNE on PW earlier and thought of you. It is basically a retelling of Ariadne and Phaedra, for "fans of Circe". The classical world definitely seems to be in!

Happy FriYAY to everyone!

Raggy - I think you're right that the definition of editorial varies depending on the agent -- and (hopefully!) on the quality of the individual manuscript. And you can only tell so much from Twitter, blogs, and interviews -- but most times it's all we have to judge by. Otherwise, it'd just be a matter of sending to everyone who reps the genre and isn't a scammer.

(I should clarify that I'm not crossing an agent off solely for saying they're editorial; if they sound great otherwise, I'll still query them. But if I'm trying to talk myself into them anyway, it's enough to put them in the "not for me" category. Arguably, if I'm having to talk myself into them, it's just as well.)

(But it is a thing I'd prefer to figure out in advance. I do not want to have the conversation in which I try to figure it out while trying not to sound like a precious prima donna who thinks my every comma is golden. I just do not envision that going well.)

Another factor in my current dissatisfaction is that of the agents I have queried so far, all of whom seem like particularly good fits, I haven't gotten one single response. Which is perfectly reasonable, it's early days yet -- but surely the last time, I was getting form R's by now? /*is cranky*/

I did, however, get a form R today -- on the previous book. From a query eleven months ago. Took me a minute to figure it out; I didn't remember querying that agent with the new book... because I hadn't. Well, at least they responded, right? /*is amused*/

Raggy!! Yay! (no, no carrot dance – should be cake dance, obv, but since that isn't on the smilies list, banana dance will have to do…) Great that it's from an agent that you really want to work with – let's hope they come back with an offer asap!!!

I checked your comp titles on Amazon (like I said, I don't really read YA…) and the OoUIL + Moxie + sounds very interesting to me. But if you worry it's too feministic, maybe Moxie isn't the best one, idk … Also, isn't the good girls guide too old for comp (2005?) I've heard it should be last 4-5 years or so, preferably.

I struggle with comps myself, haven't been able to come up with anyone that seems to say anything about my book, and that's a problem – no comps in the query does make it weaker I know– but I really can't think of any ones to use. I suppose it's even more important in the one-line twitter pitch than in the cover letter to UK agents, but still. One of the one-to-one agents at the Festival of Writing did comment on this, said I ought to find some. Sigh. Maybe I should post my synopsis in QLH and ask if anyone can think of any comps?


pingle, I've heard UK agents won't necessarily mind US style queries too. The difference seems to be they want them shorter. And some want more like a logline style description of the plot, then the facts like word count, genre etc, possibly some comps, and a short bio. And that's it. Of course, condensing the whole book into a two- or three line logline is – nightmarish, to say the least … But, if you're making one for PitMad anyway, you can def use that.

Hi, Pastelnudes, . Yes, this is definitely the place to be for support and sympathy in the query trenches. Here, have a rejection cake: and good luck with your tweaking!


aceafer – you're doing Nano, right – since it's only a few days left, maybe it's a good idea to finish, and then fixing up whatever needs to be fixed. But if it's destroying your motivation to write at all, then maybe stop now. Do whatever feels best for you (yeah, very useful advice, but…only you can know what works for you... )

Liz_V – space opera, that sounds fun! Yeah, it's very freeing to be able to make up what you need – but of course, it still needs to feel real, be logical and consistent and all of that, so, that's a challenge of another colour…

I see what you mean about a too-hands-on agent. I think I would like someone who is a bit editor-minded, but with suggestions, not demands in any way – and someone who really gets my manuscript, really understands what I'm trying to achieve, so could help me achieve it. Realise my vision, not theirs. Or that our visions would be the same. That's my dream agent. Whether I'll find one remains to be seen… I think the best way is what Raggy says – query widely, and then suss out the editing part before you sign with them when you get an offer. Which of course you will. I don't think asking about their vision for the book, what kind of changes they would suggest to the manuscript, if any etc, would make you sound like a primadonna suffering from golden word syndrome. I'd think that's pretty standard type questions in that agent/writer 'job interview, that they would expect and would have heard a lot before.

And what the heck, have a cake for that R as well, even if it is for an old query about a manuscript you've shelved!

Hello all,

First off, thank you for all of the good wishes, it's so nice to pop in and see those supportive thoughts, even if it's taken me a bit to reply.

I hope all is going well for you and your recovery, goddess!

So sorry for the Rs, especially those personalized ones that carry the extra edge of hope/hurt.

I haven't heard back on any other queries nor the requests that are out there, don't have it in my to nudge, though I could on at least a couple of those requests, nor have I sent any new queries, bc my brain is sludge and it's hard to care right now other than in a theoretical, distraction type of way.

Still in the hospital with Husband, no end in sight yet. The stress has me fraying, so even though my laptop is at the ready and I'm not actually *doing* much of anything else, I've mostly just looked at the notes I've made for New Idea over the past couple of months, written and read and rewritten and reread ad infinitum an opening 250 words.

Liz - That's an absurdly long time for a R! Commiserations, but I guess you'd already mentally written off so it's more a thing of bemusement than anything else...

On editorial agents - I'd imagine the vast majority are not prima donnas over little details like commas and rejigging sentences. I don't know this for fact, but most simply don't have the time, and, in theory, they shouldn't sign someone if they feel a book needs that much intervention... I'm sure there are a few but I'd imagine they're the minority. You could always post this on the Next Circle thread to see if there's any consensus?

Torill said:

I checked your comp titles on Amazon (like I said, I don't really read YA…) and the OoUIL + Moxie + sounds very interesting to me. But if you worry it's too feministic, maybe Moxie isn't the best one, idk … Also, isn't the good girls guide too old for comp (2005?) I've heard it should be last 4-5 years or so, preferably.

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A Good Girl's Guide to Murder is 2019 so the one you found must have been something else - you're totally right about keeping comp titles recent, I did even demure about mentioning One Of Us Is Lying but it appears so frequently on #MSWL that I decided it was fair game. I wouldn't mention Moxie as a straight comp, but a comp of the nature of "this book is like A mixed with B and elements of C" it works well. My book is feminist, but it isn't *about* feminism because it's a mystery.

Putting your synopsis up and asking people for comp suggestions is a good idea, Torill - others who have read books you haven't may have good ideas (plus you can get a reading list out of it!). I'm sure there will be something good out there (even if it's of the "my book is X merged with Y and Z" variety rather than straight comps.

ap, I was thinking about you so thank you for popping in and letting us know how things are going with your husband. I'm so sorry you're both still in the hospital. Even if you're not producing much and fiddling with the same few words, I guess the most important thing is that the New Idea is helping you through this time (looking at the notes is valuable in and of itself, as the ideas will be bouncing about your head). No point nudging or pinging out new queries until you want to, especially with Thanksgiving looming. All the best wishes and luck to you and husband. :hug: