Can you jinx a story talking about it?

Hublocker said:

I'm about 1/5 into a novel and I'd like to show a portion to a buddy of mine who is also a writer.

We have played music together for years. He's a playwright, songwriter, short story writer, novelist.

We both have coincidentally started novels around the same time and are at about the same stage in them.

I'm tempted to talk to him more about it but I have this phobia about talking too much about works in progress in case I jinx them.

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Rather than a jinx, I think you have the perfect opportunity to develop a critique partner. I had two while writing my mystery. As my novel is currently being evaluated by a beta-reader, my critique partners are still with me as I s-l-o-w-l-y write my next mystery.

There have been studies that show that if you talk about a goal before starting it, you tend to accomplish less but be more satisfied with your progress. Talking about it fools your brain into thinking you've accomplished more than you have.

However, if you're not really talking about your vision for the story, but rather about writing you've already done or how to solve a problem you're having, that's quite different. Peer-to-peer learning is often extremely effective.

So I'd say go ahead and discuss what you've done or how to solve issues, but avoid talking about what you plan to do next. You don't want to diffuse your enthusiasm for the work yet to come, but it's fine to brainstorm about what already exists.

I don't think it's a jinx, per se, but there's an anecdotally "proven" theory that over-discussing a work in progress can give you a similar sense of accomplishment to actually finishing said work. For some people it inhibits their drive to actually complete the work because they've already told someone how it turns out.

I tend not to discuss ideas with anyone before I feel they are strong enough that I won't be easily influenced by outside opinion. I find it's a killer when I mention a basic idea, because people have ten different takes on it and once confusion sets in...

If it's a solid story, I find I can assess any input more rationally and see how the story holds up to suggestions. (I should add that the suggestions are usually better than my story!)

Can you jinx something by talking about it too much?

My answer would be invariably that you can't. Tricking yourself into thinking you've done more work than you have by overtalking about a project is just that, you making your brain think you've done more work than you really have. If you can somehow get around that, then there's no real danger. I like to talk to my writing buddy about my ideas, whether little bits of worldbuilding or ideas for a short. And since that's the sort of writer I am, that means I figured out pretty early on that I need to find a way to keep myself motivated. If we're talking and I have a sudden cool idea, I'll tell her my basic plot, the names I'm thinking of for my character/characters etc. And either after that or later the same day I'll start on my outline, making sure to continue the next day if I'm not done yet. I let the outline sit for a day or so unless I'm itching to start, pick inspirational music, and begin writing. It's all down to motivating yourself is what I've found.

If however you find that the idea of sharing your thoughts on some new idea or something you're writing is paralysing, then don't do it. Delay talking about it till you think it is strong enough to stand on it's own, even if that means you wait till it's done. It really depends on you.

I can actually relate to this feeling; I rarely discuss WIPs with family for just this reason. Scientific or not, I become self-conscious and paralyzed at the keyboard when I've spilled the beans on what I'm doing, effectively jinxing myself. This is especially common in the early phases of a work. Later on, once I've finished a draft and done a little polishing, I feel more confident in discussing it... here, at least. (Family's still largely a no-go zone for creative endeavors; they don't mean it, but they can be motivation vampires, and not just about writing.)

So, if you don't feel comfortable sharing yet, I don't think anyone will blame you if you don't. You know where you are, comfort-wise, more than any of us. Nobody should be forcing you to share anything before you're ready. Maybe when you're further along and feel more confident with it, you guys can swap stories for a critique party. Or maybe you could share a short or another work you're less heavily invested in to see how it goes.

JMHO...

It depends on you and where you're at with your writing and your goals as well as the people you share it with. Through personal experience, I have shared something too early to people who are very critical, which bit me in the ass. What I need in the early stages of a project is enthusiasm and encouragement, because I'm not entirely confident that I can pull it off just yet. Then, when I'm about halfway through and I know the story has taken shape and is pretty much impossible to derail, I can share it with my toughest critics if I want to, just to make sure there are no plot holes etc.

Hublocker said:

I'm about 1/5 into a novel and I'd like to show a portion to a buddy of mine who is also a writer.







Maybe it's the opposite and he could help with ideas or vice versa. I write songs too, but he has never ever agreed to collaborate. But talking about each other's work might even be helpful. Maybe.

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Have you ever had the impression that your friend wants to see your work?
If he hasn't wanted to collaborate on songs (and the way you phrase it: "never ever agreed to collaborate" suggests that you've brought it up) why would you think he'd want to share novels? Maybe it's not the way he works best, maybe he's afraid that sharing will kill the need to finish. And, if you write similar stuff, maybe he's worried about cross-contaminating each other's ideas, that one of you will feel 'ripped off', that one is using stuff that was part of the other's work.

Maybe ask first, see if he's interested in the idea at all. Maybe start with smaller or older works, that you're less invested in?

I don't like superstition and try to avoid and discourage it. So I would say no.

I would be more worried about some of the things mentioned by Brightdreamer, Putputt, and frimble3. Things like: motivation vampires, sharing something too early with people who are too critical, or that sharing will kill the need to finish. On the one hand, the person's reactions might thrill you and inspire you to keep writing your story. So not sharing might mean missing out on that. On the other hand, the person might say something, and perhaps quite unintentionally, that deflates your interest in the story altogether. That's what I'd be the most fearful of.

If one of those things is what you mean by "jinx," then yeah, I suppose it can.

Hublocker said:

I'm tempted to talk to him more about it but I have this phobia about talking too much about works in progress in case I jinx them.

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What could happen is that talking about the story can dilute, or even destroy, the urge to write it. It's like that for some people. I don't mind discussing with a reader what I've already written, but I never, ever talk about what I haven't yet written.

I have more trouble not talking about my writing.

My two writer-buddies are the only people with whom I can discuss works in progress without fear of jinxing.

One of the first things I was told when I started writing was that you can write a story, or you can talk about a story. Very few can do both. I've seen studies that showed those who talk about such things abandon them far more often than those who don't talk about them.

I can't speak from personal experience, though. I never have talked to anyone about a story until after it's finished. I'm not afraid I'll jinx it, I just don't see the point. I don't want interference in any way, including accidental interference that comes from talking about it. There will be plenty of time to talk after I finish.

I don't believe in jinxes *knocks on wood*


You can over-talk a story, though. I'm very verbal, and I have to talk through my plots out loud before they make sense to me. I can do this alone talking to my computer, but for novels, I generally go through them with my husband while I'm outlining.

After that, though, I don't talk about it at any length until it's done. I don't give chapters to my crit group while I'm writing. I don't hash over plot points with my husband or writing group members. If I stop to talk about it, I will be consumed with doubts and second thoughts. I don't keep it secret or anything, but if someone in my writing group asks how it's coming, I truthfully tell them what chapter I'm on and say it's coming along, but I don't go into details. Talking about something in progress kills it for me.

Maryn said:

There's a woman in my long-time critique group who approaches each new story, novel, or play with such enthusiasm, talking our ears off about it, then writing little or nothing of it. Clearly her urge is satisfied by the talk. We have pointed this out to her, but she's not even trying to change--or writing much.

Maryn, with her usual sigh

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This explains some of WIPs over the years. I hadn't considered that discussing a story could be discouraging my writing ethic. I'll have to keep a lid on that.

Another thought is that when a story is just in your head (to the extent you haven't written it yet), it's full of possibilities-- still insubstantial in a Heisenberg kind of way. But if you talk about it, you "condense" it into something specific. After that, it can be harder to change direction, because you have an expectation that it will be like what you discussed. It's like you've nailed pieces of it to the floor even before you've written it.

The heading of this thread (not the actual post, which seems perfectly sensible) keeps putting me into Horrific Flashback Mode about the stage my son went through in his pre-writing but still surprisingly verbal stage, aged around four. Where bedtimes came with bedtime stories - which he would make up.

"and then the guy, not the guy with the pirate sword but the other guy the one that fell off the mountain goes to the guy with the pirate sword and chops his head off but not all the way off and the guy, not the guy that chopped his head off but the other guy the one with his head sort of half off but still hanging on a little bit well he puts his head back on and there's bandaids in his pocket so he takes a bandaid and puts the bandaid on to stop the blood coming and then -"

I'm here to tell you, that sort of thing can jinx some of the joys of bedtime.

Yes. Totally. Finish it before you do anything else.

Cyia said:

I don't think it's a jinx, per se, but there's an anecdotally "proven" theory that over-discussing a work in progress can give you a similar sense of accomplishment to actually finishing said work. For some people it inhibits their drive to actually complete the work because they've already told someone how it turns out.

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I've definitely had that happen. I've had an idea boiling away in my brain that just won't go away, but if I talk it through with somebody instead of sitting down and writing it, once I'm don talking I almost completely forget about it.

Me, too. I've let people read various WIPs over the years and none of them have ever been finished (one was barely recycled into Kitchen Witch, however).

I guess it depends on what you want to talk about and how receptive he is, as well as what sort of writer you are.

I generally don't talk too much about my ideas until I have a book. But there are certain people I will bounce ideas off of, seek suggestions from, or just ask "does this sound stupid?" And they do the same for me. And I think it helps us both to have that extra ear and brain to give things a somewhat new look-over.

But if it's just waxing poetic about a story... that I'd definitely save, either way.

This is an interesting question. I've read and noticed that very often people who talk a good game often don't produce the results they aspire to. I have a good friend who has some 'great' business idea about once a month, but has not yet acted upon any of them. A similar kind of situation is where you keep putting off some task that you don't really want to do. It hangs around in your head, and by the time you actually have to do it, you feel as though you have been through it a thousand times. Laundry? I'm looking at you.

I think this is why I am a pantser. If I know too far ahead what I am going to write, it can feel like a chore.

Regarding your predicament, I would say that if your friend is the kind of person who would love to have brainstorming sessions and you could both inspire each other equally, then it could be a very good thing. If it is just because you want to splurge, then probably not.

What is a jinx?

If it's some form of supernatural force which brings bad luck, then I'm not interested. No-one has yet produced a shred of credible evidence to justify superstitions like luck or fate or jinxes. If luck worked then popular numbers would come up more often than the average on random systems such as lotteries or roulette wheels. They don't. Random is random. Luck doesn't work.

But if you mean jinx as in a way of influencing your own behaviour, then I can see it. If you think you have been jinxed (and you believe in that sort of stuff), you will be more likely to give up or not try very hard. Curses and voodoo work because the victim believes that they have been cursed and this affects how they think and feel.

It's a variation of the placebo effect. We tend to live up to our expectations, whether those expectations are good or bad.

Is it a good idea to collaborate with your friend? Only you can answer that. If you go into the partnership with a positive attitude, then there is no reason why it shouldn't be a success. But if you go into this expecting it to be a jinx, then it probably will be.