The Next Circle of Hell, Vol. 2

Harlequin

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heh, I'm all over the place with genre in this one, so I sure hope that trend takes off >.>

Writing for market, for me specifically, is mostly about adapting to write for a neurotypical audience and learning to express emotions through narrative in a way that is connective for them. (Sorry for the pretentious mouthful.)
 

Qwest

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And as we know, so much of what gets signed/sells is down to random factors outside out control, and changing tastes. Right now I'm reading here in the UK at least there's a growing appetite for uplifting stories on the YA market and a turn away from psych thrillers and gritty stuff, which I suppose is predictable on one hand, the world being quite a depressing place of late. But I'm not sure too many authors would have predicted that, and, as we know, writing for the market can backfire.

Yip, so true Raggy - uplit is really big for Frankfurt this year... Ah well, I'm afraid I'm not a very "uplit" writer, so I'll just wait out this fad.

As for the genre-bending stuff, I did actually do quite a bit of reading on this of late, and there's a need in the human psyche for "pattern recognition" and this is where "genre" becomes such a useful tool. It helps readers (and agents and publishing professionals in general) put things into easily identifiable patterns. I think the problem is when it becomes (for lack of a better word) "industrialised" to such an extent that playing with genre (or mashing up genre) relegates books to the backwaters. I'm a great fan of genre mash-ups - and frankly, the Coen Brothers have made a huge success in the film world of destabilising genre norms... Hopefully, over time, the market will become less rigid and more experimentation can flourish.
 

Qwest

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Update: Atlantic12, I do hope that genre-bending work is gaining in popularity. That's good news!
 

Atlantic12

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Hope so too!
I've been hearing about uplit as well. Nothing I would pursue, but it's interesting to note what is trending. I might pop into Frankfurt next month, so I'll keep my eyes and ears open.
 

Jeneral

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Sparverius - AAAAHHHH that's a really good sign. I hope this leads to good news very very soon!

Atlantic - congrats re: coagent interest! That's a big step, and I hope it works out!

As far as the literary/genre comparisons go, I think there are a lot of the same frustrating elements when trying to break into anything. Everyone wants something different, but no, not that different because then it won't fit with the other stuff we already have. And of course, romance is the highest-selling genre by far, yet every few weeks there's some kind of thinkpiece out there that says "romance is garbage, lol bodice rippers amirite?" So much fun!

Things are good here. I have a couple chapters in the new WIP started, but I'm expecting edits soon so I'm putting it aside for now. I was asked for my input on cover art, and I have a call this week with my editor (!! still not used to saying that) re: cover art concept and revisions. So everything seems to be moving along at a decent pace, especially for publishing, and I'm feeling pretty good. I'm sure the anxiety will kick in soon enough, but for now I'm enjoying the ride as best I can.
 

Isobel

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OMG. Just got an amazing response from a NY agency wanting to coagent my book in the US market. OMG. OMG. I wish I could share their response because it's OMG.....

:hooray:

Yay!!! So happy for you.
 

Sparverius

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Awesome news, Atlantic!!

And some great progress, Jeneral!

I'm late and catching up on the literary/SFF/genre discussion—really interesting.
 

ChibiUsagi

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First, congratulations to everyone who has good news! That's awesome, let's keep the circle going!

Sparverius - AAAAHHHH that's a really good sign. I hope this leads to good news very very soon!

Atlantic - congrats re: coagent interest! That's a big step, and I hope it works out!

As far as the literary/genre comparisons go, I think there are a lot of the same frustrating elements when trying to break into anything. Everyone wants something different, but no, not that different because then it won't fit with the other stuff we already have. And of course, romance is the highest-selling genre by far, yet every few weeks there's some kind of thinkpiece out there that says "romance is garbage, lol bodice rippers amirite?" So much fun!

Things are good here. I have a couple chapters in the new WIP started, but I'm expecting edits soon so I'm putting it aside for now. I was asked for my input on cover art, and I have a call this week with my editor (!! still not used to saying that) re: cover art concept and revisions. So everything seems to be moving along at a decent pace, especially for publishing, and I'm feeling pretty good. I'm sure the anxiety will kick in soon enough, but for now I'm enjoying the ride as best I can.

Congrats on the progress!

As for the romance, a lot of that "this is garbage" mentality comes from within the industry itself, which is kind of odd since there are so many women.

My personal solution would be to stop publishing romance that is legitimately crap because I think it just makes the whole genre look bad. Raise the bar, so to speak and the attitudes might change. There is very well written work in all genres but everything seems to be judged by the lowest common denominator, especially in genre fiction for whatever reason.

Part of it is also sexism. Anything women like is stupid. Society hates women who cater to women, not men, this is not really news.

A lot of mystery/thriller is just as terrible but that's for men to use as their fantasy vehicle so it's somehow seen as more acceptable.

Awesome news, Atlantic!!

And some great progress, Jeneral!

I'm late and catching up on the literary/SFF/genre discussion—really interesting.

To chime in here, the main issue with writing literary fiction as a 20 something bi-racial girl is that nobody takes me seriously.

All of this "we want diversity" is largely virtue signaling (as much as I hate that term).

Diversity sells better in circles that are more open to it. Sadly that is not literary fiction, with a handful of exceptions--and most of those exceptions are male. PACHINKO was a big win for "the cause" if you will and the doors are starting to open. It's already much different from when I set out on this journey 2 years ago. Working in publishing has lent me some credibility I didn't have as a random 21 year old brown girl.

I've got an uphill climb but it could be worse. I have the "pedigree" that snobby editors eat for breakfast.

The biggest issue is that most "big name" literary fiction agents could acquire one book every two years and be happy. They're VERY picky because as someone already pointed out, it is more about cultural cache/awards than pure sales.

Smaller market...pickier agents and editors. But every genre has it's unique challenges and as Jeneral said, there is a lot of crossover.
 
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Shoeless

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Diversity sells better in circles that are more open to it. Sadly that is not literary fiction, with a handful of exceptions--and most of those exceptions are male. PACHINKO was a big win for "the cause" if you will and the doors are starting to open. It's already much different from when I set out on this journey 2 years ago. Working in publishing has lent me some credibility I didn't have as a random 21 year old brown girl.

Man, this is REALLY an eye-opener for me, as a lot of the assumptions I had about the literary genre are not playing out as expected. I thought it was a given that since literary was the great cultural bastion and vanguard of the finest literature humans can currently produce, it would also be the most progressive.

I mean, I know in some ways, science fiction gets an "easier pass" for diversity because a lot of people are more willing to tolerate the idea of a societies not dominated by a white majority because it's "in the future," but even then it was a pretty tough nut to crack for quite a while, as I once wrote in a blog post that Rebellion asked me to contribute. And I ended up just writing about white people as my main characters until I finally decided to stop being embarrassed at not having a white protagonist, and just be okay with it.

But things are definitely different now. Agents don't pay lip service to wanting more diversity, but not repping it, they do. And publishers, at least in SFF, are definitely more on board now with a lot more diversity in characters. I think maybe I just started writing a bit too early, because things are certainly opening up now.
 

s_nov

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Yay for the news, Atlantic!

Speaking of Frankfurt - is anyone else going? Maybe we can put together a Hell lunch, or cocktails?

I haven't been around much because I have a new internship, and I'm diving into the wonderful world of negotiating sub-rights. Whooooo.
 

s_nov

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I'll be around Friday - Sunday. Not sure of my meeting schedule yet, but I think it'll be decently flexible.
 

RaggyCat

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Jealous of you guys going to Frankfurt - please report back, I'd love to know any findings and what it's like to attend!

It makes me so cross when genres get judged unfairly. FWIW I see a similar yet slightly different thing all the time with YA - reviewers making sweeping and often outdated statements about YA belittling both authors and readership.
 

Niiicola

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Wow, so much good news in this thread right now! I'm just catching up -- congrats, Isobel!! And congrats to Atlantic too!

Spar, that sounds so promising! Keeping everything crossed for you.

Also, good luck to everybody embarking on sub. My brand-new MG just went out this week and I've got that awesome hope/nausea thing going on.
 

Atlantic12

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Best of luck, Niicola. I get the whole nausea/hope thing!

So my freshly-minted NY coagents are submitting to the US market tomorrow! Holy smokes, when they want to move fast, people in publishing move *fast.*

*throws more magic submission glitter dust* :e2cheer:
 
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skydragon

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Congrats on the news Atlantic!

RaggyCat, I'm in the UK too and I remember seeing that news about thrillers in The Bookseller. I also saw a depressing statistic from the children's conference that YA dropped in sales by 44% last year... I wasn't quite sure how to feel about that!

Good luck with your MG Niiicola.

Not much news on my end. I'm starting a new writing project for a younger audience. Me and my agent agreed to put my WIP aside. We weren't sure how to make it work (someone at the agency wrote something similar that didn't sell) and I just ended up banging my head against a wall every time I looked at it. I'm excited about the new project though, because I'm going back to writing fantasy – my first love! My book that's on sub is a YA contemporary, so it'll be nice to dip into the fantastical again.
 

Jeneral

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Good luck on sub, Niicola!! I so understand that barfy hopey feeling. I hope you get good news soon so you're less barfy. :)


So my freshly-minted NY coagents are submitting to the US market tomorrow! Holy smokes, when they want to move fast, people in publishing move *fast.*

SO TRUE. I had just finished telling my husband how slow publishing moves, and how it would probably take a good couple months to get responses on my sub, and then it sold almost immediately. So he no longer believes a word I say about publishing. I'm so excited that your new US agents are jumping on this!! Good luck!!

Got my edits last night, and while they're not insanely extensive, it's still gonna be a busy October.
 

ChibiUsagi

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Taking a poll to make myself feel slightly better: who is on at least their second round of sub? Bonus points for second agent, because mine is irritating me beyond belief and if she doesn't get it together I may need to look elsewhere.

Cause I'm sort of losing hope for this round. :Shrug:

I had an editor say "oh hai, I will be in touch by October 15th"......why....do they do this....to me....they keep setting me up for disappointment. :cry:

The other didn't respond to my nudge.

Congratulations to everyone! I will try to keep my bad luck going to maintain some kind of karmic balance in the circle :ROFL: