The Next Circle of Hell, Vol. 2

I should probably state for clarity, my first agent got me a book deal and is a good agent, but my work, I guess, stopped gelling with her as it matured. It happens, although I didn't enjoy the process at all. And agree with lizmonster (not to derail the thread) - until joining AW I thought everyone stuck with their first agent and like I was some kind of failure for walking from mine. Not so. Super common.

Moving on to publishing today - The Bookseller's news page is really good for market knowledge (you can view headlines and a few articles per month for free). I read a slightly dispiriting article on there today which suggested that thanks to the book fairs being cancelled last year, and moved this year, editors (UK, anyway) are suffering from submission fatigue (it having been busy especially from September onwards). I can see how it would be odd for editors to suddenly have the structure of their year meddled about with like that, and more of a constant flow of subs rather than activity at certain points. Then again, there was an interview with an agent in the same article who suggested she's also been told that editors are seeing fewer subs that usual. So I think the article is one to take with a pinch of salt. I found it interesting, though.

Didn't mean to imply the only reason to leave an agent is if they're "bad." It's a bit like leaving a job - sometimes the problem is the relationship just isn't the best fit for your publishing goals. It's always okay to politely and professionally terminate the relationship, even with a wonderful agent.

(Again from the outside...)

Publishing is so subjective. There have been (are) agents I once thought would be dream agents--based on their sales, and MSWL topics/tropes, and energy, and so on--and once or twice went to the bother of paging through actual books that they sold... and I realized they have wildly different actual tastes than I do.

Great agents, different wavelength. (Made me feel much better about the rejections, too.) Comes down to random details and voice, I think. Thank heavens for the subjectivity though. And for the multiple publishing options.

(I will now return to my unagented seat. )

There have been (are) agents I once thought would be dream agents--based on their sales, and MSWL topics/tropes, and energy, and so on--and once or twice went to the bother of paging through actual books that they sold... and I realized they have wildly different actual tastes than I do.

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This. The last time I queried I read the agent's bio (when available), and I chose a few based on how they phrased what they were interested in, rather than specifics on a mswl (which can be reductive, I think, and too limiting).

Agents are art brokers. Of course they're going to be subjective. Which is not always easy to remember, or internalize.

It's so difficult to keep up with agents' reading behaviors too, and the recency of the comps they're looking for. I read 20, maybe 30 books in a good year anymore. Of those, about half are going to be classics I'm still going through from my high school / college lists, a bunch are going to be non-fiction, and most of the rest are going to be me catching up on novels or short story collections that were recommended to me years ago. They're going to span genres, subgenres, and marketing age ranges. Which means, all said and done, that I might read at best 3-5 even semi-recent books in my manuscript or WIP's genre and subgenre any given year. I'll love one or two of them.

Then I'll read an agent's wishlist or list of faves, and they'll mention dozens of books that came out in just the past couple years, most of which I've never heard of let alone gotten to reading yet. They'll say they're tired of plot structures or tropes that still seem perfectly fresh and not-at-all-clichéd to me, but that I guess they've read a lot of recently while I've been playing catch-up. It can be overwhelming.

It makes me want to re-tailor my reading habits to reflect the New York Times or some other bestseller list in whatever genre I'm looking to pitch soonest. But that's never been how I've come to books; I crave variety and read the stuff that sounds most exciting when a friend describes it to me. I can imagine myself getting sick of reading really quickly if I turned it into an agent- and business-oriented research prospect. I already have a hard time staying motivated to finish novels when it's so much easier to watch a movie or TV show in these endlessly stressful times.

It's a bit like leaving a job - sometimes the problem is the relationship just isn't the best fit for your publishing goals. It's always okay to politely and professionally terminate the relationship, even with a wonderful agent.

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Definitely this (and all the points Woollybear makes, too). A writer friend of mine from Twitter used to have probably THE star YA agent in the UK, but this agent turned out not to be right for *her* so she walked, and has found a better fit with an agent who is happy to support everything she has to offer.

I do know what you mean about keeping up with reading in your category, pharm. It's on paper a great idea but it can be tough in practise (and not just because new books can be costly). For me, I find it quite tough to read books that directly correspond to what I write because it brings up all the bad feelings I'd rather not engage with. But I've found I can learn a lot from reading books related to what I write - so, for example, Adult mystery/thriller/crime rather than YA ones, and general YA rather than Ya mystery/crime/thriller. But I do try to read the key books that fall under my umbrella - i.e. the ones with tons of traction that many agents and editors mention - because it feels like important commercial awareness. Impossible to read everything, of course.

Hahaha! I googled "booksellers" and was shown "The Booksellers" aaannnd another day is lost to procrastination.

A lively tour of New York's book world, populated by an assortment of obsessives, intellects, eccentrics and dreamers, past and present: from the Park Avenue Armory's annual Antiquarian Book Fair, where original editions can fetch hundreds of thousands of dollars, to the Strand and Argosy bookstores, still standing against all odds.

I have had multiple agents. As has already been said, often the problem comes down to the relationship. It's not whether the agent is good or bad -- it's whether the agent is a good or bad fit for you.

It took me a while to figure out exactly what I needed from agent and what I wanted out of my writing career.

Deciding to leave an agent is always hard, but it can be the right decision. I am very happy with my current agent.

As someone who is STILL unagented, I can only speak for editors, but my experiences with each one have been wildly different. In a creative field, I don't think there's much point picking people as "dream" anythings based on a dot-point list online.

I bought my "rival's" book today; it's so similar in themes to my next book I'm worried it's *too* similar. We shall see. It's annoying because I'm so much more interested in this book than my last two. It's nearly twice as long, and has shipwrecks and murder and gold and stolen identities. I'll have to brace myself before I read the other author's.

I'm just home from my surgery. I need another one in late February, but today was meant to be the bad one. My mother dropped me off and took me home, and asked if I wanted anything. I said: a bottle of champagne so we can celebrate the inauguration (it's on at 3am our time!). Yes, bad idea after surgery, but no, I don't care. I might regret that now the anaesthetic has started to wear off!

Is there still spezna being passed around?

Editors definitely vary, even within the same publishing house. I have four different ones across three books!

Sonya, how are you feeling a few days on from surgery? I hope the champagne managed to ease the discomfort of the anaesthetic wearing off! But I love that your request was champagne! And have you got any further with your rival's book? I have to say I am always find it tough to read rival's titles - either they leave me cross because they're (IMO) not as good as the hype suggests, or they leave me feeling horribly discouraged.

I think we need some sub glitter on this thread, for those of us on sub. It certainly had a magical effect a couple of years ago! So... I'll duly throw some sub glitter around. *throws sub glitter"

Maybe it's the talk of sub glitter that did it buuuuuuut...

I have some good submission news, guys.

Now excuse me while I hyperventilate. There is hope for YA and books that have been on submission 10+ months!

It's a bit like leaving a job - sometimes the problem is the relationship just isn't the best fit for your publishing goals. It's always okay to politely and professionally terminate the relationship, even with a wonderful agent

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My! I have missed some interesting conversation. I had to jump in because I am also, inadvertently, in the agent-wooing biz again. Last spring, I put out a handful of queries to test the waters. Like several of you, it never occurred to me that people left their agents! I remember how grateful and amazed I was to get representation while still in my late-in-life graduate writing program. But there were many issues in the selling of my first book and, while it certainly was "my first rodeo," even at the time I felt things were not handled as well as they could have been. In retrospect, I am sure of that. And the communication has been, frankly, terrible.

So I sent these queries out in the early days of the pandemic to see if I was totally deluded in thinking I could land new representation. I only sent out to top people; it was just a test, after all. I got enough requests for full manuscripts and nice personal rejection notes to decide I wasn't a crazy person, and I decided I would finish the entire series before continuing to look for new representation.

Then, yesterday, six months to the day after I sent a query, I hear from the CEO of a big NY agency, who is "very interested" in reading more and wanted a bunch of other additional materials. I haven't thought about submissions in half a year! I had to drop what I was doing, dust off my original manuscript, do some revision (of course!), create a new bio, etc., etc. It's a lovely opportunity and, while I am not optimistic, it was good to revisit marketing for a mad 24 hours.

Anyway, I thought I'd pop in. This site drives me mad. I get flashbacks to the early 90s. I expect to hear the squeal of my dial-up modem. But, seriously, you guys are the only ones I "know" who are really in the trenches and it is so lovely to hear what you are up to. I plan to visit more often. Perhaps I can learn to knit or something while waiting for the page to load...

Best wishes on all your endeavors!

Now excuse me while I hyperventilate. There is hope for YA and books that have been on submission 10+ months!

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Whoo-hoo! You must have posted while I was writing. Great news, RaggyCat!

Hello, long time no chat! Who has made it back after our down time? Any sub news (good and bad)? Or general writing/non writing news?

I posted just before the forum went down but my YA sold (after 10 months of sub). Not announced yet, but I've signed the contract, so it's going to happen! My last book was published in 2013 so it's been a long time in the wilderness for me.

Looking forward to catching up with you all! Hope you're all OK.

Oh, hey, congrats, Raggy! That's amazing news!! Congratulations.

I'm currently waiting to hear back from my agent about my new MS (fingers crossed it doesn't need toooooo much revision work!). Very happy to see the forums back up for the moment!

eta: Oooh, we have reactions now! Features, yay!

I'm waiting on three final Rs at this point. There are a few more small pubs on the list, but nothing I have high hopes for.

It happens, right? I'm trying to keep working on the next thing.

Ooh, good luck, be frank! I always find sending a new MS to an agent nervewracking. I'll be in the same boat as you by the end of the day. Just polishing my new YA before sending it along to my agent.

Sorry to hear about that, lizmonster. Working on the next thing is always the best way forwards, for mentally moving on. Then you can enjoy being surprised if something does come up good.

Thanks, RaggyCat. I'm seriously evaluating mental cost/benefit at this point. I honestly thought this book would sell.

Ugh, I'm sorry, lizmonster. It's so hard having a book (probably) die on sub, especially when it had such potential and expectation. Hopefully one of the remaining pubs pulls through for you.

I always think publishing is like a toxic relationship -- it's so awful to us in so many ways, and yet we're all desperate for it to love us. We get constantly rejected and smacked down, but we keep crawling back against all sense.

I have many Thoughts on the business, none of which are appropriate to express right now.

ETA (and bc I'm on mobile and my fingers are clumsy) I have a couple of self-pub projects in the works, so I'm going to see how that avenue goes. One thing my previous experience got me was a reader who's also a professional graphic designer and ebook formatter. He's done some branding stuff for me, and has hooked me up with a cover illustrator. So you never know how things will fall out, really. I'm just hoping self pub is somewhat less traumatic.

Good to see everyone again!

My MG still on sub, but I worry it's dying on the vine. My agent believes in it 100% and we revised it heavily after feedback (we added a whole new POV and a third to the length!) so I still have some hope, but after this long I'm kind of preparing for it not to sell.

I have another YA with my agent and I'm working on another MG and another YA, so we have options. But I did think this was going to be the one. Oh well. No one can control the whims of the market.