The Next Circle of Hell, Vol. 2

Thanks, Spikeman. And I'm sorry about your start to the year. Not a kid glove kind of agent, huh?

I'm seconding what krash said, btw.

Spike, I think the others have hit the nail on the head. Do you want this agent so badly that you'd be willing to shelve the MS? Do I remember correctly that you were having communication issues with this agent, as well?

For what it's worth, I know several people who have left their agents in this exact situation. Some of them went on to sell that book, some sold a different book, and some haven't sold anything yet. But not a single one of them has regretted it.

krashnburn said:

Spike, is it a genre your agent doesn't normally rep, so maybe she's hesitant? I have seen it suggested that if you're writing outside your agent's zone and the two of you agree, you could ask to find someone else to rep that particular MS/genre.

Or it comes down to what Put said: what do you want more? That MS or this agent? Did you discuss revisions at all?

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It's YA. My other MS she is repping is also YA, so that's not really the issue.

She said she would be happy to send me revision suggestions, but that it would be a ton of work and that her opinion is for me to scrap it because it would be a tough sell anyway even if I made a lot of changes.

I think I'm more in love with the MS than the agent. And yes, we did have communication issues at the start. I almost left her a year ago!

I appreciate all of the advice!

spikeman4444 said:

Has anyone left an agent over "Creative differences" on a new MS after being on sub for something else?

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Sorry to hear this, Spikeman.

This happened to me with Ex-Agent, except I didn't do the leaving. In the same email, he said the ms. wasn't working and suggested I query other agents or self-publish it. I took his crits pretty seriously, so I ended up doing neither of those things, and finding a new agent with the next book I wrote. For various reasons, it was a good change, because I was going in directions Ex-Agent might not have been happy with. But oh boy, did it hurt at the time.

I'd give yourself at least a week before you decide what next. Think about what vision the agent seems to have for your career, your genre, your style, etc. Is that a vision you share? (For instance, to take a concrete example, Ex-Agent did not think I could write first-person present tense. I wanted to try it anyway. My debut is in that format.)

If the issue isn't a vision difference, but more to do with the agent's perception of what sells and doesn't right now, that could be a reason to be more leery of going out on your own. Or not. Depends on how strongly you believe your book is marketable currently. (If it's not, shelving rather than trunking is always a possibility—and yes, I know how awful it feels to do that. Ugh!)

Fuchsia Groan said:

Sorry to hear this, Spikeman.



I'd give yourself at least a week before you decide what next. Think about what vision the agent seems to have for your career, your genre, your style, etc. Is that a vision you share? (For instance, to take a concrete example, Ex-Agent did not think I could write first-person present tense. I wanted to try it anyway. My debut is in that format.)

If the issue isn't a vision difference, but more to do with the agent's perception of what sells and doesn't right now, that could be a reason to be more leery of going out on your own. Or not. Depends on how strongly you believe your book is marketable currently. (If it's not, shelving rather than trunking is always a possibility—and yes, I know how awful it feels to do that. Ugh!)

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Ha Ha, my agent and I have never had a conversation about my career or a vision or anything like that. It's been about 16 months of forwarding me rejections when appropriate, and otherwise staying out of each other's ways. We don't have the best relationship, and I think that's becoming more clear now.

Niiicola said:

For what it's worth, I know several people who have left their agents in this exact situation. Some of them went on to sell that book, some sold a different book, and some haven't sold anything yet. But not a single one of them has regretted it.

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Oh wow, it just hit me that this is SO true. Niiicola is wise.

spikeman4444 said:

It's YA. My other MS she is repping is also YA, so that's not really the issue.

She said she would be happy to send me revision suggestions, but that it would be a ton of work and that her opinion is for me to scrap it because it would be a tough sell anyway even if I made a lot of changes.

I think I'm more in love with the MS than the agent. And yes, we did have communication issues at the start. I almost left her a year ago!

I appreciate all of the advice!

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I'd be tempted to wait and see what the revisions advice is before making any decisions. Although if she's the type to take months and months to send notes, then I probably wouldn't bother.

How many of you got an agent through a partial-request? (Turning into full ofc) I’ve the impression that partial is code for “not really that interesting, but dang it, we’ll have a look”

JeanGenie said:

How many of you got an agent through a partial-request? (Turning into full ofc) I’ve the impression that partial is code for “not really that interesting, but dang it, we’ll have a look”

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I got my previous agent through traditional querying-partial-full-offer, and that's how I got my current agent as well. I think in a lot of ways a partial request is really a way for an agent to see whether you just polished the hell out of your query and/or first five pages, or whether you really can keep up that level of purported quality for the long haul.

JeanGenie said:

How many of you got an agent through a partial-request? (Turning into full ofc) I’ve the impression that partial is code for “not really that interesting, but dang it, we’ll have a look”

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I got my agent through partial-turned-full request. It wasn't the only partial-turned-full I ever had--they do result in more. It can often be as Shoeless said. It might be about how much time the agent has, or looking for that feeling at end of what you've sent that they have to know what happens. Or maybe it's going through an intern/associate/assistant first. No matter what, it's a good first step.

JeanGenie said:

How many of you got an agent through a partial-request? (Turning into full ofc) I’ve the impression that partial is code for “not really that interesting, but dang it, we’ll have a look”

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Hurrrr, I've never had a partial request turn into a full request. I don't know why that is. I'm also not sure why, in the electronic age, agents are still asking for partials either. It makes sense to request partials pre-email, when you had to send in hard copies of your MS, but now...? I haz no clue.

Sounds like there is a chance, then

Yes, that’s why I was wondering - why ask for partial when they can just get a full? Is it a sort of code to themselves, or, like shoeless says, a way to double-check if you are consistent, or just the assistant letting you through to the next round?

I've had partials turn into fulls, but my agent asked for the full up front (she asks for query with first ten pages initially).

While I'm not an agent, I'm a PitchWars mentor. I used to ask for fulls from any entry I was excited about (15-20 entries), but I give feedback for full requests. SO, this past year, I started requesting just the partial and synopsis, then weeding out from there. Less feedback expectation.

Maybe agents have a similar feeling about feedback for a full vs a partial? Those who still give feedback, that is.

I also got my agent from a partial to full request. Though mine was a partial to full to R&R request, then the offer. When I was querying, I had pretty much an even split between partials that turned into fulls and partials that did not.

I think the point is there's no rhyme or reason to it lol. Don't tie your hopes on it, just keep writing and querying and whatnot and see what happens!

Thanks! Definitely not getting my hopes up. It’s difficult, because she’s my number one agent (her name is Merrilee Heifetz, if anyone’s heard of her) and she was the fourth I queried, after 2 form rejects and one who didn’t reply, so it was really nice to at least have some kind of positive answer! Didn’t think I would get so happy for a partial X-D sent my first ten with the query, then her assistant answered and asked for 50, so that’s where I am. A small step for an author, but a giant step for me!

januarycomet said:

I also got my agent from a partial to full request. Though mine was a partial to full to R&R request, then the offer. When I was querying, I had pretty much an even split between partials that turned into fulls and partials that did not.

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My own experience with partials was actually pretty good. Usually if I got shut down, it was right at the initial query stage or AFTER they got their hands on the full. More often than not, if an agent requested a partial, that usually turned into a full request. Which still, y'know, amounted to nothing anyway if they rejected the full after all that, but oh well... Maybe this just means I write a mean 50 pages, but can't stick the landing on the entire book.

Shoeless said:

My own experience with partials was actually pretty good. Usually if I got shut down, it was right at the initial query stage or AFTER they got their hands on the full. More often than not, if an agent requested a partial, that usually turned into a full request. Which still, y'know, amounted to nothing anyway if they rejected the full after all that, but oh well... Maybe this just means I write a mean 50 pages, but can't stick the landing on the entire book.

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I’m crossing my fingers and hoping she’ll request a full. But it doesn’t look good on the QueryTracker timeline, if that’s anything to go by, there partials are most often rejected.

This is my first request, so hopefully I’ll become a little more blasé about it in the future.

JeanGenie said:

I’m crossing my fingers and hoping she’ll request a full. But it doesn’t look good on the QueryTracker timeline, if that’s anything to go by, there partials are most often rejected.

This is my first request, so hopefully I’ll become a little more blasé about it in the future.

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Querytracker is a blessing and a curse, and I say that as someone who subscribed for several years. I'd still recommend it to anyone that's about to submit big time, especially if they've got multiple projects going. It can be FANTASTIC for getting good data on the submission habits of agents, but can also be demoralizing when you look at the rejection stats.

But yeah, you grow a thicker skin as time goes by. By the time I got offered representation last year, I was at the point where I'd be only slightly disappointed by a rejection on a full for 10 minutes or less, then move on.

On the other hand, when someone finally says "Yes," the emotional high for that can last for DAYS.

Shoeless said:

Querytracker is a blessing and a curse, and I say that as someone who subscribed for several years. I'd still recommend it to anyone that's about to submit big time, especially if they've got multiple projects going. It can be FANTASTIC for getting good data on the submission habits of agents, but can also be demoralizing when you look at the rejection stats.

But yeah, you grow a thicker skin as time goes by. By the time I got offered representation last year, I was at the point where I'd be only slightly disappointed by a rejection on a full for 10 minutes or less, then move on.

On the other hand, when someone finally says "Yes," the emotional high for that can last for DAYS.

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What did you do to celebrate when you got the offer? Must have been surreal!

QueryTracker is bad for a compulsive researcher with little patience, like me. Every day I’m shocked that nothing has happened on the agent’s timeline X-D

MartinaMay said:

I've had partials turn into fulls, but my agent asked for the full up front (she asks for query with first ten pages initially).

While I'm not an agent, I'm a PitchWars mentor. I used to ask for fulls from any entry I was excited about (15-20 entries), but I give feedback for full requests. SO, this past year, I started requesting just the partial and synopsis, then weeding out from there. Less feedback expectation.

Maybe agents have a similar feeling about feedback for a full vs a partial? Those who still give feedback, that is.

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This is an interesting point. I think there is certainly some truth in this. That it is sort of an unwritten rule or guideline in the industry that as an agent if you request a full, you give at least some feedback as to why you are rejecting a work. Whereas, with a partial, it is naturally assumed that you can send a form rejection just as you would with a query.

I wish it was a rule, but I'm hearing more and more about full requests ending in form rejections, or no answer at all. I don't entirely blame the agents, since many are getting 25K+ queries a year. But a no-response agent would drop to the bottom of my future querying lists.

On leaving an agent/having an agent leave you: having an ineffective or unenthusiastic agent is worse than no agent at all. You don't know how many of your opportunities they're squandering. If you have doubts, ask the agent to be honest with you. If the agent doesn't communicate and can't sell your work, seriously consider getting away from them.

Filigree said:

But a no-response agent would drop to the bottom of my future querying lists.

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Same. I've had a couple of non-responders on fulls (even after nudging), and I've never queried those agents again. I can forgive a form rejection, but ghosting is just not cool. I hope that doesn't sound petty, and being on the other side of it now I totally get that they need to give their time to their clients, but still....

JeanGenie said:

What did you do to celebrate when you got the offer? Must have been surreal!

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Not much, actually. Mostly felt smug and quietly vindicated. A nice dinner for myself, and few other treats, but generally just basking in the glow.

Speaking of glows, here's something to take some of the shine off of that. Agent got back to me today with another rejection from a publisher. It was a very nice rejection, praising the pacing, action and world-building, but apparently the structure and some character development issues were the issue this time. Oh well...

Hi all! Welcome back MC and waves to all the r&r-ers. Rejection wine/whiskey poured where appropriate (sorry shoeless for the recent one!)

Just passed the one year on sub mark with this MS and feeling road-weary. Waiting on the last three responses to come in. I know "it only takes one", but not feeling incredibly optimistic ATM. Still about 15k to go on first draft of new thing and I've barely made progress on it lately. I need to get my head in the game, and I'm glad AW is back so I can commiserate with my favorite fellow-waiters.

Shoeless said:

Not much, actually. Mostly felt smug and quietly vindicated. A nice dinner for myself, and few other treats, but generally just basking in the glow.

Speaking of glows, here's something to take some of the shine off of that. Agent got back to me today with another rejection from a publisher. It was a very nice rejection, praising the pacing, action and world-building, but apparently the structure and some character development issues were the issue this time. Oh well...

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You've just got to take that glow, hide it somewhere deep inside and then take it back when your book gets rejected

This is all getting very, very real for me now. My Angry Robot cover has just been revealed and the New York Public Library have also listed me on their most anticipated books of 2018 list!
This is a very SQUEE-inducing day.