The Next Circle of Hell, Vol. 2

Sorry, Spikeman, but it's for the best given everything you have said. I really hope that you find a wonderful agent who loves your new MS.

So sorry, Spikeman, but you've got to do what's best, even if it stings.

((((spikeman)))). It's never an easy decision, but it sounds like you made the best call for you and your future books! May your querying journey be swift and painless!

And ((((((hugs)))))) to everyone on this thread going through ups and downs with querying, subbing, agents, etc. I'm so grateful for this community!!!!!

Question: when do you nudge on drafts send to your agent? I'm not at that point yet (just a week), but I'd like to hear your range of experiences

Sorry to hear, Spikeman. Does sound like a reasonable decision, all things considered. Here's wishing you a short stint in the query trenches and that this time you find the agent that's truly right for you and your work.

spikeman4444 said:

Well, I just sent my agent the break up email. Last week she basically pronounced MS 1 dead after a year out on sub, and MS 2 she doesn't "love" so I think it's a logical time to move on, especially given the up and down experience it has been with her. I guess I'll see you all after a while? This is sad. All the best, guys and gals.

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I did that only in the middle of a submission about 4 months ago. Since then I've had 4 fulls requests and lots of interest. also connected with some editors directly. I have faith there is a light at the end. Keep on keeping on.

polishmuse said:

Question: when do you nudge on drafts send to your agent? I'm not at that point yet (just a week), but I'd like to hear your range of experiences

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With my first agent, I didn't nudge at all. I just sent him the novel and let him get around to telling me what he thought whenever he had the time. With the current agent, I'll probably do the same, although at this stage, she's still submitting the first book, and the second is nearing completion. But also figure since she hasn't actually sold anything by me yet, I'm understandably lower on the totem pole than existing clients. Or so I figure.

Shoeless said:

But also figure since she hasn't actually sold anything by me yet, I'm understandably lower on the totem pole than existing clients. Or so I figure.

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Nah mate, she's not like that

PeteMC said:

Nah mate, she's not like that

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Yeah, intellectually, I realize that's probably the more reasonable approach to take. Emotionally, when you feel inadequate, it's hard to shake the feeling other people shouldn't just treat you that way, since that's "what you are."

Spikeman. Hope to see you back here soon.

My agent takes a couple of months to read my novels - I think like 3 months? I feel that's way too long for a client (as opposed to someone querying) but when I asked others, they said it was pretty standard.

Earthling said:

My agent takes a couple of months to read my novels - I think like 3 months? I feel that's way too long for a client (as opposed to someone querying) but when I asked others, they said it was pretty standard.

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bleeeerrrgggg. I appreciate the honesty! I checked how much time it took for them to read through the draft of this MS last year and it was 3 weeks-- so here's hoping its closer to that? blerg. I feel like I've developed so much patience in the last 18 mos because of this process, but introduce a new MS and all of those lessons go out of the window. Ha.

It's been 3 weeks to 3 months for responses depending on what she has going on at that time (conferences, another client with a deadline, etc...). She has sometimes sent me updates on her own: "I'm swamped but you're up next."

I'm fairly new to AW but I had to jump in here because I've also parted with my agent recently and it really stings, so I can empathise with what Spikeman must be feeling. With my agent, I'd been with him eight years, and we'd published three books together. However, he hasn't liked either of my last two books enough to want to pitch them to editors. If they were flawed in some way and I could work on them, I'd feel better, but he doesn't have any suggestions for improvements, which stings because it indicates he can't be bothered with me as a client anymore (for what it's worth, I think the first book could be a hard sell, but the second one has a good hook and is much stronger). I feel like I could carry on writing books indefinitely and he'd still be on the fence. Sometimes, your writing moves on, but not in the direction that your agent will respond positively to. And that's sad and distressing.

I'm querying to find a new agent now and it hasn't gone well so far - 7 rejections - it's pretty galling to think I'm back where I was years ago! But I still believe I was right to move on from my agent, even with the heartache that is no doubt lurking ahead...

I'm sorry to hear you had to break with your agent, Spikeman, but wish you better luck going forward!

And same to you, Raggycat! I had a similar situation with my first agent before I was published, and it was not fun at all. I've heard of this happening to so many writers, many of whom later found an agent who loved the work the other agent didn't love, and sold it. There are no guarantees, of course, but persistence can pay off. (I'm telling myself that, too, because I'm in a not-so-pleasant waiting scenario right now.)

I'm rereading this 19th-century novel called New Grub Street that should have been called The Woes of Writers, because that's what it's about. Basically everything awful that can happen to someone who tries to make a living from literature. I just read a scene where an author finishes his ms. (handwritten, mind you, one copy) and goes for a walk only to return and find his apartment house in flames. He dashes upstairs, through the smoke, past the prone body of the drunkard who caused the fire, straight to his ms. Then he heroically escapes via the roof, rolling his ms. in a coat and tossing it over. The next day he sends his smoky, charred, still-readable ms. to a publisher, hoping for an advance large enough to save him from starvation. Yep, reading this definitely makes me feel better about being a writer in 2018.

On an unrelated note, is anyone else here following the Terry Goodkind "Trash his cover artist, but not really, just kidding! Haha!" story, or is it just me? I've seen Cameron mention it on his Twitter a couple of times, but I'm genuinely surprised no one has started a thread about here, in AW of all places.

Fuchsia Groan said:

And same to you, Raggycat! I had a similar situation with my first agent before I was published, and it was not fun at all. I've heard of this happening to so many writers, many of whom later found an agent who loved the work the other agent didn't love, and sold it. There are no guarantees, of course, but persistence can pay off. (I'm telling myself that, too, because I'm in a not-so-pleasant waiting scenario right now.)

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Thanks, Fuchsia Groan! One of the things I've learned since coming on AW is that moving agents is really quite normal; until posting I'd never known of another published author to do so, and I do know quite a few authors. I feel it's something people don't readily talk about. I think I'm probably in the worst part of finding a new agent right now - a few rejections down, hope and enthusiasm burned off - but I hope for better things around the corner, and that I've just got off to a bad start.
Sorry to hear you're in a not-so-pleasant waiting scenario too - it never, NEVER gets any easier.

Welcome, RaggyCat! I'm sorry to hear about your agent, but yeah, I think moving agents is pretty common. I hope you find the right agent soon.

Shoeless - You should start a thread on the Terry Goodkind thing! It *is* really interesting, and I've been following with plenty of popcorn on Twitter.

Most of my beta readers have finished reading my revised MS, and they all agree that I've addressed my agent's biggest concerns, so YAAAAY. Thank gawd. I still have some revisions left to do, but nothing major, so huzzah! I am so beyond sick of this MS by now, heh.

Clocking in with another rejection. The forbidden romance subplot not to editor's taste.

It's snowing. I hate snow.

Also, there are raisins in my 'raisin-free' cereal bar.

Shoeless said:

On an unrelated note, is anyone else here following the Terry Goodkind "Trash his cover artist, but not really, just kidding! Haha!" story, or is it just me? I've seen Cameron mention it on his Twitter a couple of times, but I'm genuinely surprised no one has started a thread about here, in AW of all places.

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Go for it! It is a little surprising it's not on AW already. Reddit and Twitter are tearing him to pieces over it. This is not how to gain new fans.

I saw a reference to the debacle from Pete on Twitter, but I hadn't seen anything else. Just read up on it now I know the author's name and... wow. What a dick move. His "apology" is a typical non-apology as well.

I don't expect it will harm his career any, though. Not with the sales cited:

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2018/feb/26/terry-goodkind-book-cover-shroud-of-eternity said:

A New York Times bestselling author of fantasy novels and thrillers, Goodkind has sold more than 25m books over his career. He is best known for his 11-volume Sword of Truth series, the first volume of which, Wizard’s First Rule, was adapted into TV series Legend of the Seeker

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Thanks for the welcomes, all! I've just wasted an hour staring at Query Tracker, which hasn't told me anything I didn't know already from my initial research round. It's coming up to the time where I would expect to hear back from few agents based on their response guidelines so I'm getting a little... restless.

BTW has anyone UK based used the paid version of Query Tracker? From what I can see QT seems to be better as a tool for US agents.

RaggyCat said:

BTW has anyone UK based used the paid version of Query Tracker? From what I can see QT seems to be better as a tool for US agents.

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I'm not in the UK, I'm from Canada, but I still ended up paying for a Query Tracker subscription anyway, and using it for quite a few years during my agent hunt. I ended up having an American literary agent offer representation, but admittedly, in the case of Canadians, that's often a much better arrangement than having a Canadian agent since you'd want to hit the American market anyway. Unless you're absolutely dead set on getting UK representation for personal reasons, business-wise, there's no real downside to having an American agent. My own agent has a couple of UK clients and she's managed to work deals for them with both UK publishers like Angry Robot and American publishers like Ace.

I did like the extra stats Query Tracker gives you with a subscription, since you can see hard data like how many books from each genre the agent has actually requested, how many offers--at least from QT itself--of representation the agent has made, things like that. As I understand it, QT has actually restricted a lot of the data on agents that used to be available in the free version, but having been subscribed for so many years, I'm not sure what data you can and can't see anymore. But if you're an info junkie that likes having those extra statistics to give you a better picture of how an agent responds, I think the subscription is totally worth it. Also, it lets you start multiple projects, which I did end up doing over the years, with one book nearing the end of its submission run, while another was just starting out.

Shoeless said:

I'm not in the UK, I'm from Canada, but I still ended up paying for a Query Tracker subscription anyway, and using it for quite a few years during my agent hunt.

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Thanks Shoeless, that's helpful - for me, I think UK agents are definitely the first port of call (my former agent put my work out to US publishers and they all felt it was too British for them - admittedly this is 8 or so years ago, but says a lot for my style). I'm not opposed to US agents, though. There's very little available in the free version, statswise - just the basic listings, contact details and comments. I am attracted by the idea of the stats - there are agents I'm a little suspicious or wary of for various reasons, so those stats might give me the extra insight into them I can't glean by Googling. I'd also love to know what the response rate is like for the agents at very well-known agencies.

RaggyCat said:

Thanks Shoeless, that's helpful - for me, I think UK agents are definitely the first port of call (my former agent put my work out to US publishers and they all felt it was too British for them - admittedly this is 8 or so years ago, but says a lot for my style). I'm not opposed to US agents, though. There's very little available in the free version, statswise - just the basic listings, contact details and comments. I am attracted by the idea of the stats - there are agents I'm a little suspicious or wary of for various reasons, so those stats might give me the extra insight into them I can't glean by Googling. I'd also love to know what the response rate is like for the agents at very well-known agencies.

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Hi - I'm in the UK and have a US agent, works fine for me. If you're looking for insights into agents don't forget to check out the Bewares & Background Checks board on here, there's a thread for just about everyone on there.

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Shoeless said:

On an unrelated note, is anyone else here following the Terry Goodkind "Trash his cover artist, but not really, just kidding! Haha!" story, or is it just me? I've seen Cameron mention it on his Twitter a couple of times, but I'm genuinely surprised no one has started a thread about here, in AW of all places.

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There's a huge thread about it on the Fantasy Faction facebook group, which I may have started

Yesterday I found out about 6 rejections. 6.

On one hand, I've never been read this widely, this quickly (I've been on sub for about 5 weeks).

On the other hand, I feel like I'm never going to get published, you guys.

Off to go research this Terry Goodkind drama you speak of to distract myself.