The Next Circle of Hell, Vol. 2

Atlantic12 said:

Chibi, that has got to hurt, sorry. Is there a term for that kind of super-positive comment in a pass? A "glowing rejection"?

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Or a Gleejection?

Thanks for the cheering up guys.

I know it's one of the better problems to have but gawd is it annoying.

My boss, who is sort of the Miranda Priestly of publishing, has told me she doesn't know why I don't have a deal yet so I should be really encouraged by that...cause she's mean most of the time but actually I just feel like I'm extra defective

Congratulations, Isobel! I love geeky YA; can't wait to hear the details!

And good luck out there, Harlequin and Atlantic! Hoping for more success stories in the Circle.

That's frustrating, Chibi, but I hope this revision pays off for you!

Hi guys, hope you don't mind if I join the thread. Been lurking for a while and steadily going crazy on sub, so I thought I'd post as I could use a little support. I was actually taken to acquisitions by one publisher, but didn't make it past the meeting for marketing reasons. My agent thinks they just don't understand how to market it because they don't usually publish this type of book, but it's a good sign that they liked it enough to take it that far. Hopefully someone else will want to go all the way. I still have a lot of publishers to hear back from (agent cast a pretty wide net).

Anyway, it's nice to be here as a non-lurker.

Welcome, Skydragon! I'll offer as much support as I can in the form of virtual brownies and vodka, if that's your thing. Being new to the sub thing myself, I haven't descended into madness yet, but I'm starting to think I won't avoid it.

Great sign that one publisher took the book so far. Definitely hoping you hear more good news soon!

(*throws brownies, vodka rains from the sky*)

Welcome Skydragon! Those near-misses are the worst. Hoping for some good news soon for you - there's been a lot of that in the thread lately. It's been a happy contagion.

Well done on the request, Atlantic12! It always interests me how differently agents work - some wait for requests, some attach the book with the agent query letter, and take the "responses" as confirmations of interest.

My news is that my book on sub has died... but I'm calm about it. It did get an offer from a digital press, but because there was no advance (and the marketing commitment wasn't there) I decided not to take the offer. It amazes me that I spent years stuck on that particular book (I was so attached to it!), and letting go wasn't as painful as I thought it would be. Maybe it's because I gave it my best shot? But, it's probably because I have two other books I've been working on, so my attention was diverted from the sinking novel.

Welcome, Skydragon!

@Qwest--I wasn't sure how that worked, or what normal is. For me, agent sent queries out, and then only sent the MS if there were requests. I've asked her if that is normal, and presumably will hear soemtime today.

Sorry to hear about your book on sub Are you working on two books at once?

Welcome Skydragon!

I'm sorry about that near miss. I have had a few of those myself and they've taken their toll on me over the past few months. Though this is my first time on sub so I am trying to stay optimistic. Many people had to go on sub multiple times before selling a book. It's early days yet.

Qwest, I am so sorry, that is SO frustrating. I really hope it's not the end as you seem to think.

But I really admire your zen.

Thanks for the kind wishes!

Chibi, although it might be the end for this book now, it might get a chance later on. When I told a friend this, he called it a "zombie" book (rising from the dead later on), which I found pretty funny. Aside: there are no zombies in that book

Harlequin, I actually wrote one book pretty quickly about 3 years ago when I needed a writing break from the MS that has just died on sub. The MS I wrote super-fast is not my usual genre, but I really love it - it's contemporary fantasy. I've been tinkering with it when I have the time, but I've had a busy year (studying) and there hasn't been much time for creative writing or editing.

The second book I have ready was done over a few years and is actually finished. I think it's my favourite ms, but it is totally odd (experimental) and so very uncommercial. In short: it's not going to have an easy time finding a publishing home! it was a lot of fun writing this almost un-saleable book - breaking so many "if-you-want-a-deal-follow-these-rules" and just playing with form and time in a way that was very liberating. I wrote it after I'd spent years rewriting the book that has just died on sub to make it more market-savvy... I guess I wrote the non-market friendly book in reaction (a rebellion) to the market-driven machine I was finding myself caught in.

I needed to write that book for me. And I'm happy I did, even if it never gets a deal.

Qwest -- Echoing sympathies. I did just read an interview -- don't remember who -- about someone who sold their first book that died on sub after selling the follow up in a pretty big deal. So zombie seems about right ...

Skydragon -- Welcome. This whole process is so hard, but I found it a lot easier when I started engaging here.

I needed to write that book for me. And I'm happy I did, even if it never gets a deal.[/QUOTE]


This is how I feel about my current novel. But I sort of DO need it to sell because I put all my pain into it and if it never sees the light of day, I feel like I have to hold onto that pain.

Rightly or wrongly. I will never write another novel this personal ever again.

I'm also curious about the different ways agents pitch. Is it that common to attach the MS with pitch? Depends on editor relationship?

I get that totally chibi. Especially since some books take a lot out of the writer to put on paper.

Sparverius said:

I'm also curious about the different ways agents pitch. Is it that common to attach the MS with pitch? Depends on editor relationship?

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I have worked closely with 5 agents.

Long story short, in my limited experience, it's considered a bit rude to attach the manuscript before being asked.

There's also the chance they won't open it. My boss won't. That pisses her off and it's known now she'll chuck it right in the bin--nobody submits to us like that but then, we have very clear guidelines.

YMMV.

My agent told me she called the editors on our list and pitched my book. If they said send it over, she sent the full mss. Most said send it.

Sparverius said:

I'm also curious about the different ways agents pitch. Is it that common to attach the MS with pitch? Depends on editor relationship?

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I think you're right Sparverius, from what I understand there are a few ways to do this: my ex-agent said that as editors were super-busy the trend was heading towards sending an email with the MS attached. And then the "responses" to the mail indicate interest or not. Obviously a "no response" would mean a no. However, if an agent does have good relationships with particular editors, then I think phoning ahead and pitching a manuscript is good. Otherwise, I also know of agents doing an email pitch, and then seeing if they get requests for fulls.

I've only ever been on sub by UK agents, so things may be different in the US?

Chibi, I hear you about your MS on sub, I really do. I hope you get some good news soon - fingers crossed!

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Atlantic12 said:

My agent told me she called the editors on our list and pitched my book. If they said send it over, she sent the full mss. Most said send it.

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Great news Atlantic12

Love the term zombie book, btw!

Qwest, I LOVE the idea of just writing without all the "rules" and market stuff in mind, just the ultimate freedom.

Chibi, it's very brave to pour your pain into a book like that. Kudos. Hoping it finds a home soon.

Ah, okay. This is all very new still. Thank you for the answers.

Mine pitched via email, and then responded with fulls to any requests.

Thanks for the insight! Same agent as Harlequin, so same strategy haha She did mention speaking to editors before we went on sub, so at least a couple were already aware of incoming pitch.

Thanks for that insight, Chibi, and it's interesting to hear that your boss would bin an unrequested MS!

So even though my ex-agent did work in the "attach" ms and wait for the responses way, she did hear from most expressing interest - I think there were 2 that didn't reply. I did get very kind, considered rejections, which leads me to believe that their assistants at least read the MS. But I'm glad I know now that it's not the "done" thing by some publishers. Next time I go on sub, I'll be sure to ask about editor protocol.

Qwest said:

Thanks for that insight, Chibi, and it's interesting to hear that your boss would bin an unrequested MS!

So even though my ex-agent did work in the "attach" ms and wait for the responses way, she did hear from most expressing interest - I think there were 2 that didn't reply. I did get very kind, considered rejections, which leads me to believe that their assistants at least read the MS. But I'm glad I know now that it's not the "done" thing by some publishers. Next time I go on sub, I'll be sure to ask about editor protocol.

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I am the assistant (there are two of us, but one does secretary type stuff and the editorial work is left to me) and I can tell you that I read everything.

I may not read much of it, but I read everything we get. I think it's the same at most places.

General rule is 20-50 pages I can tell if the lady upstairs won't go for it and I should pass.

Once you reach the agent-ed submissions process, most everything you submit should be read. Take some small comfort in that.

Thanks for the welcome, everyone! I'm more optimistic than I thought I'd be about getting turned down at acquisitions... I think it's because I had such low expectations (I had over a hundred rejections before I even got my agent) and I'm just happy I have someone on my side who I work well with. Maybe I'll change my mind the longer I'm out on sub though.

Qwest, sorry about your book. I always find the best way of forgetting about a shelved manuscript is working on a new one. It's funny how replaceable our book babies are!

I don't know about agents pitching first and then editors requesting, but I'm in the UK and my agent actually pitches a lot of her books in person at lunch meetings and stuff. I like to know as little as possible about the sub process, though, and my agent doesn't tell me unless I ask for updates or unless there's major good news. (I didn't even know I'd been taken to acqusitions until my agent told me I didn't make it past the meeting. I was grateful I hadn't even been given the chance to get my hopes up.)

Welcome, skydragon.

Sorry about your book, qwest.

I’m having one of those days where I’m contemplating just how terrible my writing is on the WIP and thinking I’ll probably never go on sub on the old one. (Even though I have no reason for either thought. I think it’s being influenced by the day job.) So I’m stealing some of those virtual brownies.

Welcome to the Circle, Skydragon.

My agent pretty much went the way others did here. She'd either call, send emails, or in some cases, directly pitch to editors face to face if they happened to be at some event like WorldCon. If then she'd notify me of which editors she pitched to, and then tell me later whether they'd accepted the pitch request/query and wanted to see more. All of them said yes! Yay!

Then they all started rejecting me once they read the book. Oh well...

Chibi, I'm curious about something: If a ms. is already under contract with the house (say, a revision or a book that sold on proposal or whatever), does the assistant still read it first and put together notes? Or does it go straight to the acquiring editor? (I realize this stuff probably varies a lot from imprint to imprint.)

Sorry to hear about the book, Qwest! I know how it feels to put mss. in drawers and try to forget them, and I hate it. But new books can make everything worth it again, and I hope things go well with yours. Especially the one you wrote to break rules and experiment and follow your bliss, which is such a great feeling! Maybe it'll turn out more saleable than you thought. (Nova Ren Suma described one of her mss. as the book she wrote when she decided not to care about the market, and it was her first bestseller. Not to imply that's the norm, but hey, it's an inspiring story!)