The Next Circle of Hell, Vol. 2

Niiicola said:

I thought I'd be less stressed out now after pushing so hard and getting it done, but I'm just kind of . . . flailing around uselessly. This is normal, right?

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Yep!

Holy crap, two of my agency-siblings just walked away with awards at the Hugos today. I have no idea what I'm doing with the same as agent as these people...

Shoeless said:

Holy crap, two of my agency-siblings just walked away with awards at the Hugos today. I have no idea what I'm doing with the same as agent as these people...

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Shoeless -- Future Hugo award-winner??? Why not?

One of my agent's clients was featured in The Atlantic's book section a couple years ago as pretty much the leading author in her genre *in the world.* So yeah, I understand what you mean.

Fuchsia Groan said:

Since I have all this time, I’m putting together an ARC tour. If anybody’s interested in reading the book (YA thriller/cyberhorror) in advance and potentially posting a review (no expectations or strings), please PM me! How it works is that I make a Google sheet where readers can sign up to share a physical book via mail. It’s kinda fun; I read a lot of great books through my debut group’s tours, though I also paid a lot in postage!

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I'm guessing this is just for those in the US, Fuchsia, rather than for those overseas (I know postage costs can be horrific!)? Otherwise I'd totally be up for that! It's a great idea to do an ARC tour yourself - they always seem to be pretty successful from what I can see on Twitter.

Shoeless, that's a really OMG-is-my-life-real moment! I shamefully have to admit a friend had to explain to me what the Hugos were only yesterday, but on the plus side that means I know what your post means!

On a totally non-related note... I'm going to post on the Beta Readers forum in a few days, as I'm very nearly at the end of doing a first edit run through my new book (a YA mystery). I have one beta reader lined up (thank you!) but I'd love to ideally get a couple more, even if it's just for the first few chapters rather than the entire book. Also happy to swap, now or in the future. The only thing I'm no good for is fantasy/SFF.

I thought I'd just post about it here, in case anyone on this thread was interested/up for it - if you are, please PM me!

Atlantic12 said:

Shoeless -- Future Hugo award-winner??? Why not?

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I'd bet money against it. Hugo winners have to have some kind of literary/thematic merit, with significant ideas and stellar writing. Some snarky combat mage hurling lightning and one-liners at cyborgs is definitely not that.

Lol shoeless, you're underselling your book. If I remember right, you mentioned it has themes addressing racism and other forms of discrimination in it, so yanno, you're tackling some pretty big stuff in there too. Although having said that, "snarky combat mage hurling lightning and one-liners at cyborg" sounds AMAZING and I need this book in my life soon.

Raggy, hope you get plenty of beta offers!

75% into Book 2, I realize my MC has been very passive the last 30 pages or so. Anyone run into a similar issue? The problem is I think I'm pretty passive/lazy/cowardly as a person, so whenever stuff happens, my instinctive reaction is always: "Okie, better sit tight and hope for the best!" So then my MCs often end up doing just that. Which makes for a not so interesting story, unfortunately. But having MCs do shit is so. Much. Effort. Sorry I keep whining about this, I'm stuck in the saggy middle and I have like 3 other New Shinies that I'm *dying* to move on to, so I am so bitter at this book right now. WHY WON'T YOU JUST WRITE YOURSELF.

Thanks, Putputt - I hope so too.

Ohhh passive characters, been there, done that! I tend to overplay the MC being active now and then scale it back if I need to - that tends to fix slipping back into them being passive without realising it. Doing that does make my writing feel a bit unnatural in places - people in real life are a lot more passive than book characters - but I find it easier than the alternative.

Shoeless said:

I'd bet money against it. Hugo winners have to have some kind of literary/thematic merit, with significant ideas and stellar writing. Some snarky combat mage hurling lightning and one-liners at cyborgs is definitely not that.

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Hah, likewise (against me I mean, not you!) - I'm with the same agent too, and yeah. Thinly disguised gangster thrillers don't win Hugos either.

They do get shortlisted for the British Fantasy Award though, apparently. I'll take that

I am tempted to query your agent a third time. OMG she is one of the few that has ever solicited climate fiction (granted, it was only once and it was about five years back). Do you think she would mind? She's already said no twice, but that was about twenty drafts ago (I'm on #42).

(Edit: Actually, I think I just queried an agency mate of hers about a week back. So never mind. Onward.)

Putputt said:

Lol shoeless, you're underselling your book. If I remember right, you mentioned it has themes addressing racism and other forms of discrimination in it, so yanno, you're tackling some pretty big stuff in there too. Although having said that, "snarky combat mage hurling lightning and one-liners at cyborg" sounds AMAZING and I need this book in my life soon.

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Ah, the one you're talking about with the racism issues is the one that's currently on sub. That's my Asian Monster Hunter Beats The Crap Out Of Colonialists In The Victorian Era novel. That, and the current WIP that is "Harry Potter Meets The Breakfast Club" about a teenage magical prodigy that ends up in the worst magical reform school in America I'm going to refer to as my "Trump Era" novels, since both of them were inspired by the rage and despair of the times we live in.

The book after that is going to be considerably less, "Guys, this world is JANKED and we need to freakin' DO something" than those, I think I'm getting it out of my system now.

PeteMC said:

Hah, likewise (against me I mean, not you!) - I'm with the same agent too, and yeah. Thinly disguised gangster thrillers don't win Hugos either.

They do get shortlisted for the British Fantasy Award though, apparently. I'll take that

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Your book is FUN though. And that's also important. One of the most important things for a certain kind of fiction anyway. In the days we live in, I'm really starting to appreciate the value of escapism, and how powerful and therapeutic it can be for a story to actually just take you away from your current circumstances, and put you somewhere else for a little while. There's a magic to that that should't be underestimated.

Shoeless said:

Your book is FUN though. And that's also important. One of the most important things for a certain kind of fiction anyway. In the days we live in, I'm really starting to appreciate the value of escapism, and how powerful and therapeutic it can be for a story to actually just take you away from your current circumstances, and put you somewhere else for a little while. There's a magic to that that should't be underestimated.

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YES. I love escapist fiction and I make no apologies for it. Real life can be pretty shit, and books can open up a whole other world.

Indeed. Even better when fun books leave a person 'more' after reading. One of my recent favorites is How to Stop Time which is phenomenal in being fun and also delving into (sort of philosophically) what it would truly be be like to live for 500 years... the reality of it... plus you get a hefty dose of actual, real history from the story too.

Learning is fun. It's like running a marathon, and when you come out stronger after the fact, having accomplished a 'thing,' it feels freaking awesome.

That's why I love reading nonfic as well as fiction. I have fun AND I learned something - living the dream!

Maybe. I DNF'd a nonfiction a few days ago, also by Haig--Reasons to Stay Alive. It's his nonfiction about surviving depression.

Funnily enough, I devoured The Humans, which was his fictionalized account about surviving depression. In The Humans, the MC is a space alien who must kill/replace a human who has solved the Riemann Hypothesis (a mathematical thing to do with prime numbers) and also kill anyone that this mathematician has come into contact with--because humanity cannot be allowed to understand prime numbers--and the technology that would enable including 'space stuff'--because we are too savage to be welcomed into the greater community of intelligent beings.

It was clear that the alien identity (in the human body) was going through the stages of depression--and learning to live more fully as a human--in the story. The depression was clear. (Also pretty clear the author spoke from experience.) And, at the end of Reasons to Stay Alive, Haig says that The Humans was indeed his fictionalized story of living and surviving and overcoming (to the extent that such an idea pertains) depression.

So, it can be done. The shroud over the message in fiction does not have to be heavy.

But, it's a subjective business. (My favorites are invariably fiction that leave me bigger after reading. That often means themes and messages and always means think-y). Non fiction is great too--but I'm personally more likely to DNF it.

Others prefer more escapist reads. That's fair. It's subjective.

Hi friends,

I'll be attending the Writer's Digest conference this week and I'm getting my query letter in shape for inclusion in a packet they provide to agents.

I have a new writing credit I would like to include, but I'm at a loss as to how to word it. Here is what I want to include, if appropriate: I had an essay published in an online magazine. (That's the easy part) The thing is, the article got more shares, likes, comments, etc. than any article I could find on their site. (Even more than the administrator's articles and she is a published author several times over.) I know I just hit on something that struck a chord, but even she commented on how much attention it was getting. Sooo...

1. Do you think it's appropriate to mention that part?
2. If so, suggestions on wording?

Thank you so much! I don't want to come across as thinking I'm the end-all in my letter because I had one measley article published. On the other hand, it's an essay that didn't go unnoticed. So...

Had an extremely reassuring (exciting) phone call with agent (no, not THAT kind of phone call, the kind with dollar bills attached, but a scheduled one for a check in). The check in thing is so amazing and I didn't have anything similar with my last agent. She went over the few rejections we've gotten so far, and we have --eleven-- requests outstanding, including some extra editor chatter lately, so that's exciting. She also loves the new project (thank God), so I'll keep plugging away with the reassurance that it will be saleable even if this submission project languishes.

Didn't know I was feeling down until after we hung up and I felt really happy? I guess that's just the reality of the Circle sometimes.

polishmuse said:

Didn't know I was feeling down until after we hung up and I felt really happy? I guess that's just the reality of the Circle sometimes.

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I think this just means you've developed a tolerance for it. I would argue that sometimes, especially if you're languishing in the Circle for years, this may be a necessary, inevitable survival adaptation.

I so wish I enjoyed non-fiction more! Somehow, it doesn't stick in my head unless it's largely full of anecdotes, and therefore more similar to fiction. Hubby is the opposite - always reads non-fiction, and only fiction once in a blue moon (I had to basicallly force him to read one of mine...).

polishmuse said:

Had an extremely reassuring (exciting) phone call with agent (no, not THAT kind of phone call, the kind with dollar bills attached, but a scheduled one for a check in). The check in thing is so amazing and I didn't have anything similar with my last agent. She went over the few rejections we've gotten so far, and we have --eleven-- requests outstanding, including some extra editor chatter lately, so that's exciting. She also loves the new project (thank God), so I'll keep plugging away with the reassurance that it will be saleable even if this submission project languishes.

Didn't know I was feeling down until after we hung up and I felt really happy? I guess that's just the reality of the Circle sometimes.

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I'm so glad you've got an attentive agent, Polish, especially after your last experience! And haha, yes, that confused emotional state... I know it. Calls with a good agent should turn moods around (well, negative to positive ones, anyway!).

Putputt said:

I'm stuck in the saggy middle and I have like 3 other New Shinies that I'm *dying* to move on to, so I am so bitter at this book right now. WHY WON'T YOU JUST WRITE YOURSELF.

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That’s me at the moment.

I got three emails from three people at my publisher within five minutes this afternoon, which is always really creepy because it means A Meeting has just been had, and I was one of the topics.

One of the emails was along the lines of, ‘Where’s your next book?’ to which my response was erm, I’m still here trying to decide if I need to scrap it and start all over again… I’m lucky I’m allowed to submit my manuscripts at my own pace, but obviously they have an idea of when they want this one out, and I’m not cooperating. I was secretly hoping they’d forget about me for another week or two in the post-conference haze.

polishmuse said:

Didn't know I was feeling down until after we hung up and I felt really happy? I guess that's just the reality of the Circle sometimes.

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Yes! Sometimes you need someone to remind you they haven't forgotten you exist! People on the other end don't seem to realise how anxious silence makes us.

scully931 said:

1. Do you think it's appropriate to mention that part?

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I would mention it briefly. It can be horrible having to talk yourself up, but other writers would make a fuss about it, so go for it.

Patty said:

So, it can be done. The shroud over the message in fiction does not have to be heavy.

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Yes, it definitely can be done. I just finished reading a gorgeous YA horror that sort of turned out to be a climate change book and left me with a sense of dread wrt climate change. But the book as a whole wasn't ABOUT the message, if that makes sense. It was just a really good story, beautifully written, with an underlying message of: we're so fucked and things are going to get even worse.

But, it's a subjective business. (My favorites are invariably fiction that leave me bigger after reading. That often means themes and messages and always means think-y). Non fiction is great too--but I'm personally more likely to DNF it.

Others prefer more escapist reads. That's fair. It's subjective.

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For myself, and probably for many others, I would think, it just depends on my mood. Sometimes I love escapist reads and other times I'm in the mood to be challenged and to grow. Same with TV shows, actually. Mr Hippo and I alternate between fun, fluffy shows and more thinky ones that often leave us uncomfortable. Too much of either and we get a bit bored.

scully931 said:

1. Do you think it's appropriate to mention that part?
2. If so, suggestions on wording?

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Congrats on the essay's popularity! I would mention it briefly, as Sonya says. Maybe say something like: "My essay on [subject] was the most popular article on [publication name]."

Polish - YAY on the good agent call! And I'm so happy to hear that she loves your new project. That's always such a terrifying thing. And yeah, not knowing that you're feeling down until you feel happy...I think that's just the baseline for writers.

Sonya - Are you on a deadline? Here's to hoping you don't have to scrap and redo the next book. Just the thought is enough to give me the sweats.

Putputt said:

Sonya - Are you on a deadline? Here's to hoping you don't have to scrap and redo the next book. Just the thought is enough to give me the sweats.

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I’m not on a deadline *I* know about, but who knows what they’re saying in the office. The author is always the last to find out. I’m going away for a few weeks next month, and I kind of promised to deliver the manuscript before then (it's not in my contract, but was mentioned in a conversation).

I did tell my editor I’m not happy with some things, and the response was basically, ‘Send it to me anyway, and we’ll fix it’. I’m finishing off my current series, and then moving on to other things (possibly with different imprints), so I guess I'm supposed to get started on that.

Oooo Putputt which book was it??

I sent agent the first three chapters + synopsis of my new MS and she loved it.

I haven't written in a few weeks because my elderly cat Charlie was really ill. He was in kitty hospital and when he came home I had to feed him through a tube every few hours, so I got hardly any sleep and I was a wreck. I don't know parents cope with it for years because I was on the verge of a breakdown after a week... but he's recovered and now eating me out of house and home!

So now on to chapter four...