The Next Circle of Hell, Vol. 2

Fuschia - Sorry, I missed your reply. I think what I'm doing is an R+R? I found out about after about 4-6 weeks of being on sub that the editor I'm currently working with was sort of interested. He basically said 'no for now, but I do really like it so if not other publishers show interest come back to me and I'll suggest edits that you can implement that might get the manuscript to a place where I might offer'. So that was October, and then mid-December my agent and I decided to go back to that editor and get the ball rolling while he was still interested and hadn't forgot about it or anything. But obviously I haven't got the book deal yet, so maybe some of the writers who do will be better placed to answer your question

Fuschia, for me the R&R came around 4 months on sub after it didn’t make it through Acq on the first try. Lee, yes the R&R editor finally bought it, and we’ve done another big revision since! So, if an editor really loves your book they’re going to fight for it even if it still needs work… It’s easy for writers to stress over typos and little parts that don’t feel right, but really I think editors are looking more at whether they can work well with you and you seem capable of putting the work in, if that makes sense.

Fuchsia Groan said:

Those of you who sold after long sub times (like more than three months)— did you always have an R&R within the first few months, or some kind of positive interest? With agents, you have those standard response times and can CNR after a certain interval, but with editors it’s a big ?

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I went on sub in September of 2017, and I didn't get acquired until August of 2018, so it was 11 months for me. My book is a weird one though, since it's a mash-up of cyberpunk and magic, and my agent was getting all kinds of responses that tipped the scales one way or the other, with some editors liking the magic, but not the cyberpunk and others liking the cyberpunk but not the magic. I even got one R&R requesting the magic get stripped out--but not the magic use--and replaced with something more SF/super-hero-y to explain why my protagonist was hurling lightning at cyborgs. My agent actually advised me we should keep submitting rather than give in to an R&R, because she liked the mix, and wanted to find an editor who did too.

I actually got many nice rejections from all the people my agent submitted, they generally liked the writing, the characters, the gratuitous explosions... it's just the mash-up was so oddball, they weren't sure what to do with it. Perseverance paid off when she submitted to my current publisher, and the editor there decided she did like it as is. There are CNRs from some editors, even at this stage, so even agents experience that occasionally.

We're back! I missed you all.

SPAR, you buried that incredible news! Don't be so modest. Put it in bold, all caps

My release came and went while we were offline. I don't really know how it's going, since I have nothing to compare it to. I'm selling steadily at B&N and Kobo (hovering in the top 100 for both) but not doing much on Amazon. I'm in a Valentine's promotional thing at Apple Books but it doesn't show rankings so I can't even guess how I'm doing there. Reviews are generally good but are trickling in slowly... I'm wondering if loads of people have bought my ebook while it was on sale and will never read it.

I know I should stop looking at rankings, but it's kind of addictive. The publisher seems happy and that's all that really matters. I sent a proposal for the next book to my agent and I'm waiting for her to give the green light and send it to my editor.

Fuchsia Groan said:

Those of you who sold after long sub times (like more than three months)— did you always have an R&R within the first few months, or some kind of positive interest? With agents, you have those standard response times and can CNR after a certain interval, but with editors it’s a big ?.

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Vague positive interest, but nothing as positive as an R&R or even a, "You're going to acquisitions." I had 18 months of 'We love it but not quite enough', including one R&R that came way later than three months.

Omg there's been so much news! It's funny how good things happened while we were all away... I'm extremely behind, but congrats on everyone's deals and movement! We also sold while everything was down, and I should get my first edit letter this week

@Fuschia: I was on sub for 6, maybe 7 months. One R&R came about 6 weeks in and ultimately didn't work out.
@Spar: Massive congrats! Omg, I can't wait to read it! And a year and a half - you must be chuffed.
@Putt: fingers crossed for the good news to become concrete!
@Lee: Trust yourself! And I'm not sure how it affects you, but Bologna's been pushed by like a month, so maybe there's extra time to tweak if the editor isn't keen?

I'm definitely missing people as I tried to speed read on my lunch break. But so proud of you guys, and yay for the good news!

S_Nov - WOW!! Congratulations!! Oh man, I feel like we've had years of bad luck and suddenly everyone is selling. I'm so happy for you!

Earthling - Yaaaay, congratulations on your book selling well! That's such fantastic news and it must feel amazing. I hope your agent loves your proposal.

Shoeless - That's really great that your book found a home with an editor who loves it for its unique qualities. Honestly, magic + cyborgs...I want that so badly, lol. Please sell the movie rights ASAP. It's reminding me of Overwatch and Final Fantasy, so I'm glad this book is going to be published.

Fuchsia - Which author are you reading? I love psychological mysteries and I'm always looking for book recs. Interesting about writing quick, commercial reads...what are you truly passionate about? I sold after being on sub for longer than 3 months, but from the first month we kept getting editor interest which kept getting shot down at acquisitions, so we knew the book was close and just needed to find the right home.

Ahhh, Putputt how exciting! I can't wait to hear about what's going on, fingers crossed. Sounds like you're in the dream place with enjoying your new MS too! And big congratulations to both s_nov and Sparverius! It does feel like the good news is all coming at once! Looking forward to hearing details when you can share more.

Fuchsia - I very much relate to your post and feeling intimidated. Who is the author? I had a very similar thing a few years back and it took me a while to figure things out and make my peace with what I was good at writing vs what I wanted to write (or thought I did). It only feels like recently I've hit the happy place of writing what I feel I can do well and also what I'm good at and enjoy. I accept now that many of the things I admire as a reader aren't things I can write and what's OK. Have you tried writing more in the vein of what you're passionate about recently, and seeing how that feels to you as an author? A bit of experimentation could help?

Regarding R&Rs - I feel a bit hesitant to bring up my own experience as it's years old now, but hey, it happened, so it might be relevant... My publisher bought my debut on the promise of a R&R after about a month and a half of sub (with Christmas and NY in the middle). I didn't have to make the changes in advance of signing but I doubt that would happen now.

Earthling - As long as your publisher is happy that's the main thing at this stage. It's nice that they let you know, many are cagey with details.

In other news, I saw on Twitter today that the Bologna Book Fair has been postponed from end of March-early April to early May because of coronavirus. I really hope this doesn't affect anyone adversely - at least it's still due to go ahead (at the moment) albeit late...

(Sorry if I've forgotten anyone, I've had multiple distractions while writing this post!)

Earthling, a happy publisher is good!! Is this next book in a similar vein as the previous?

s_nov !! Congratulations!!! Edit letter, exciting.

I saw that Bologna has been delayed! I don't mean to sound selfish or insensitive, but that is sort of good for me, because I was worried that by the time we got my MS back to the editor (probably looking at around March 9th), it would be cutting it a bit close...

s_nov... edit letter! That's so exciting. Make yourself a cup of coffee before you read it, then take some time to absorb it all.

Raggy - Interesting to hear everybody's R+R stories. I think you're right in that perhaps publishers wouldn't offer BEFORE the changes now, although I could be wrong. At least, I've not heard of that happening much!

Earthling - It sounds like it's going really well. And try as you might, I bet it's hard NOT to look at rankings and whatnot... I can imagine being the same. I hope you get some good news from your agent soon regarding your next proposal!

Okay, apparently if this site goes down for a month or two everyone gets book deals. Maybe it should happen once a year!
For everyone with great news!

Earthling - I'm the opposite. I don't want to know anything about sales and rankings in case they're really bad!

Lee - I thought of you when I saw the news about Bologna. I'm glad it's a good thing for your manuscript.

Haha, Sonya, I was going to make that exact same joke about AW going down and everyone getting book deals! The winter slump has been proved wrong this year.

Glad that Bologna being postponed probably won't affect you either way, Lee. I don't know how much the change of date throws out publishing schedules and impacts on agents and editors - it probably gives them a little more time to breathe, if anything. LBF and Bologna are practically back to back, both being in March, and I can imagine that's pretty frantic.

Raggy, Putt, Tana French is the author who got me all fired up about writing more upmarket mysteries. I’d avoided her books because I’m not into police procedurals, generally, but these are very character-driven, which is so my thing. Just learned there’s a Dublin Murders TV series and now I’m all excited to watch.

I’m working on an adult book, and my CPs keep telling me I need more details and character building, whereas in YA I was always paring down. So it’s making my head spin a little, or a lot. But this may be the better path for me. It’s frustrating to work on a book for years and then get near-total silence on sub; I’m still processing that.

Oh I know of Tana French. Big name! I've not read any of her books yet but have been meaning to, as my mum has recommended them and Tana French is also repped by my agency. I rather like police procedurals, too, so clearly I need to get on these.

How long have you been on sub, Fuchsia? (Apologies if you said and I missed it). I think the silence must be even worse than rejection, as it somehow seems more dismissive, especially when a book has taken so long to write. Sorry to hear it.

Ooh, I have a relative who was raving about the Dublin Murders TV adaptation. I'll have to check it out.

RaggyCat said:

How long have you been on sub, Fuchsia? (Apologies if you said and I missed it). I think the silence must be even worse than rejection, as it somehow seems more dismissive, especially when a book has taken so long to write. Sorry to hear it.

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Four months with only two rejections, one semi-positive and one quite positive. Not sure what to make of that but I’m telling myself it’s not good.

That’s so cool that your agency reps Tana French! Weirdly, she grew up at least partially in the town where I live (in the US), and I have a friend who knows her dad and gets to hear about her amazing book tours.

My reading comprehension skills need work. Raggy, I just noticed what you said about your agency. Someone from that agency is taking pitches at the RWA (Australia) conference I'm attending in August. I REALLY don't think I'd be any good at face-to-face pitching, but it's tempting ...

Lee - I'm glad the timing for Bologna works out better for you. Obviously the reason behind them postponing it is awful, but I think it's the responsible thing to do, so I'm glad they're doing it!

Fuchsia - Omg, Tana French is one of my absolute favorite authors! I've read all her books. Her writing is gorgeous, and I love how ruthless she is with her main characters. I don't even have a favorite because I loved so many of her books. I did feel like the last one isn't as amazing as the others, but it's still good. I'm actually scared of the TV series because I just don't see how a TV adaptation can do her books justice. Please please if you write something in the same vein, let me beta read it!

Sonya - A conference sounds so exciting (and stressful). I really hope I can go to one someday. Are you querying right now? I seem to remember something about looking for an agent, but I could be mistaken...my brain is pretty much mush nowadays.

Another beta reader has finished my latest WIP and *loved* it, so AAHHH!! Her e-mail was very welcome, especially since a certain meeting will be taking place today which will determine...whether I end up the happiest hippo in the bog or whether I drown everyone in tears, lol. We probably won't hear anything until the end of the week, which is fine, because who needs sleep anyway? *twitches*

Everyone who's replied to me re Bologna - Yes, it does *seem* to bode well for my situation, but obviously it's not a nice situation overall and I really hope that it's not too dire :/ It's quite frightening, really...

Putputt - OMG. I hope the meeting goes well!! Are you meeting with an editor, or can you not say? I've got everything crossed for you. Don't forget to breathe!! Good luck! Here's to being the happiest hippo in the bog!

Well, my update is that I think I've finished implementing the changes my agent suggested, so after I read through it I think I'll be ready to send it back to her. She's not back from her trip until a week today, but she did say she would prioritise reading it when she gets back to her desk on March 5th, and hopefully that won't take too long because it was mostly accepting her track changes and changing that scene she didn't like. So I'm hoping, after she's read it, that we'll be ready to resubmit to the editor! Eeeeeeeeeek!

Good luck, Lee!

Putputt said:

Sonya - A conference sounds so exciting (and stressful). I really hope I can go to one someday. Are you querying right now? I seem to remember something about looking for an agent, but I could be mistaken...my brain is pretty much mush nowadays.

Another beta reader has finished my latest WIP and *loved* it, so AAHHH!! Her e-mail was very welcome, especially since a certain meeting will be taking place today which will determine...whether I end up the happiest hippo in the bog or whether I drown everyone in tears, lol. We probably won't hear anything until the end of the week, which is fine, because who needs sleep anyway? *twitches*

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Ugh, Putt, knowing there's an actual time you're going to hear news is hard. With my first book I was told a specific day I'd hear whether they were making an offer or not.

My publisher holds two events for their Australian and NZ authors every year: the party at the venue the night before the conference, and an "Author Day" at the office in Sydney. My book wasn't out when they were on last year, so I was too scared to go to either of them. I figured I'd at least go to the conference this year and force myself to meet everyone face-to-face!

I started a couple of extra manuscripts between Christmas and now, so the agent search hasn't really begun yet!

s_nov that's so exciting! Wishing you easy edits and a quick move through the process.

Spar, yes, the proposal is for another contemporary romance. This one's heroine is the sister of NOT OK, CUPID's heroine, though the two books are standalone.

Fuchsia, wow, big shift from YA to adult. Are you enjoying it, despite the head spinning?

Putputt, I hope you hear soon (and then tell us immediately).

Lee, go you! I hope your agent loves the changes.

I haven't heard back from my agent on my proposal so I chased her yesterday. I can never write while I'm waiting on a big decision, so the sooner we submit this thing the sooner I can actually finish the MS.

Fuchsia Groan said:

Four months with only two rejections, one semi-positive and one quite positive. Not sure what to make of that but I’m telling myself it’s not good.

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It's hard to know what to make of what, but four months (with Christmas in the middle) is still relatively early days. All the chat we hear about books on sub being snapped up within a week is so unhelpful because I don't believe that happens for most people.

Sonya Heaney said:

My reading comprehension skills need work. Raggy, I just noticed what you said about your agency. Someone from that agency is taking pitches at the RWA (Australia) conference I'm attending in August. I REALLY don't think I'd be any good at face-to-face pitching, but it's tempting ...

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I'd be terrible too! Despite having worked in public speaking and knowing in theory how to pitch, I'm terrible at communicating my own creative ideas. The agency is a good one is you can bear to pitch though. Their focus is on commercial fiction.

Very exciting times for you, Putputt! I hope you didn't go too mad yesterday waiting for news. Fingers crossed!

I hope you hear back too, Earthling. I've always hated running early ideas past agents but it's good sense. How long have you been waiting?

I am waiting at the moment for any last edits ahead of the London Book Fair, which is when my agent is going to pitch to editors... I am utterly paranoid that LBF will be cancelled because of coronoavirus, despite there being no indications of that at present. I swear writing is a constant process of being paranoid about SOMETHING.

AAHHHH it is good news!!!! Ok I’m incoherent right now so I won’t say too much but oh god I am dead!!!

Putputt said:

AAHHHH it is good news!!!! Ok I’m incoherent right now so I won’t say too much but oh god I am dead!!!

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Yay! Congratulations

Putputt said:

AAHHHH it is good news!!!! Ok I’m incoherent right now so I won’t say too much but oh god I am dead!!!

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Congrats! I'm uncrossing my fingers for you now.

Putputt!!!! CONGRATS!

Putputt said:

AAHHHH it is good news!!!! Ok I’m incoherent right now so I won’t say too much but oh god I am dead!!!

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