The Next Circle of Hell, Vol. 2

litdawg

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@Sonya--Thanks for asking. LitSpouse has got her groove back at last--she's both working and working out, both of which are vital for her mental health. The lingering lung and heart weakness from COVID seem behind her at last.

My agent forwarded a lengthy rejection/revision note from a publisher this week. They had an objection to plot direction that I think is a misreading, but a reasonable one. That means I've got work to do. I'm going to do another revision pass thru the mss that's been on sub to remove grounds for this critique because I don't think the objection will be limited to the one publisher who has raised it. There have been several rejections after full mss requests at this point, and I wonder if we've finally learned why. It costs me nothing other than time to deal with this, and I very much like the opportunities it gives me to flesh out my world more. But I can't go crazy! Mss is already 91k, and I can't go over 100k and still present a svelte debut writer appearance.

And everything is still on fire here. We're in the "keep your windows closed zone" and not the "keep your car loaded with essentials/valuables" zone, which is something to be grateful for at the moment. I'm sure all of us working with dystopian futures don't need the daily reinforcement of what a BladeRunner future looks like :(
 

litdawg

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We must all be busy bees for a week to go by with no updates! Or I'm just projecting because I've had a whirlwind week of editing. I'm not sure where the time came from (says he writing this at 0545) but I got through 91k of revisions in the past week. This was a light pass through the mss for the most part--I made changes on almost every page but rarely more than deleting unnecessary phrases or reversing the order of clauses to keep cause before effect. This bought me about 1,800 words of space to make the more substantive changes and additions I promised my agent in response to an editor's critique. Along the way I found and fixed two plot holes--the horror! Actually, more like bloopers--had a scene, for instance, in which one character notices certain features about another but both using invisibility tech. Anyhow, I still cry on the pages I'm supposed to cry, so I'm not sick of this baby yet. After the agent has a chance to read through and ensure I didn't throw out anything essential with the bath water it will go back out on sub to the press that made the critique and a few more.

I hope everyone else is enjoying a productive week of writerly work and diminishing fires! The physical world I inhabit is less dire than it was a week ago, and that helps too.
 

Sonya Heaney

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Ah - litdawg - I'm here, but I have no news, and I'm pretty terrified of what's happening with my books, so I'm waiting for news! :roll:

I'm glad to hear your wife is better. :) I hear you on editing every page - I once forgot that my editor could see everything in track changes. I changed almost every sentence!

I'm nearly finished a manuscript I plan to send off to agents early next year. The imprints I write for will never take it, and I'm finding it pretty freeing to be working on something I enjoy writing, knowing I have no rules attached to it at the moment.
 

Carrie

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Greetings!

I have also been reading and cheering you all on with very little of real excitement to report.

Litdawg, congrats on the editing. 1800 words of breathing space is considerable. I know that feeling of suddenly discovering something that I had to have noticed before now! (And didn’t.) It sounds like you are in the homestretch and working with a good team.

Sonya, congrats to you and a nearly finished manuscript! So exciting. I don’t care how many times you do it!

Tereserose, good luck on your subs. Fingers crossed for you.

Puttputt, I do not believe you hate your baby all the way from 15 – 60k! That’s a lot of hate. I think I have two places where I hate my baby: immediately after the opening chapters when I have to find sneaky ways to get some needed exposition in, and then the transition after the first major climax at about the halfway point.

I hit the halfway point in Book Three—which is also the halfway point in the series—and I started to feel a little like Richard Dreyfus in “Close Encounters,” sculpting mountains out of mash potatoes. You know, like it makes perfect sense to me, writing more than 200k words that no one has read… I needed to let a little fresh air in.

So, this week I’ve assembled my first-ever group of readers. I won’t call them “beta readers,” because they are all experts at something or another.

I asked a university art librarian I met in a workshop years ago to read for her history expertise, I asked my female Lutheran minister cousin to read for her experience, I have a retired small-town chief of police, so I didn’t really need that, and I am pretty good with the floral industry, where my protagonist spends his time, but I still needed a funeral director.

Then, of course, I thought it would be nice to get a couple readers in my genre but since I am still fuzzy on what that is, I knew that would be challenging.

But I went to CritiqueMatch, which I had not heard of, and discovered you could sort by both genre and experience level. There are not a lot of published writers there, but there are some. And one was writing “dark humor/thriller” material (which is pretty close to what I am doing) AND (drumroll please) he’s a part-time funeral director! Perfect!

It turns out, he not only has useful industry experience, he’s probably the best reader of characters I’ve ever had so it was a super useful find. I’ve been reading his stuff (which is dark and funny!) and taking literally every note he’s given. Everyone else is still reading and that is fine because now I can get back to the second half of Book Three without feeling that my first book has stalled out completely.

That is all my exciting news. Everyone needs a friendly undertaker in their life, that’s my take-away.

Best!
 

litdawg

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Everyone needs a friendly undertaker in their life, that’s my take-away.

Fantastic mic drop, Carrie! Super excited to hear about the perfect beta reader for your ms! I remember how over the moon I was when a real-live geneticist offered to read my epigenetic SF mss. And she's been the best. May this be a partnership that lasts!

Sonya--creative freedom sounds lovely! I think that was behind my shamefaced note to the NEH about how I spent my time last summer :D
 
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Harlequin

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91k in one week! Ye gods, litdawg.

I have been busy and a bit stressed, and also havring a lot of imposter syndrome if I'm honest. Which then makes me feel ungrateful lol. The British rights went to auction this week, and during the bidding one of the publishers sent a pitch document to my agent to forward to me, for how they would position and market and all that stuff. It was really lovely and also eye opening. A good reminder that I would make a terrible marketer if I ever had to do it myself.

Auction is settled now. We are hopefully moving on to contracts and signing soon. Announcement maybe late Oct or November? I have no idea.

I am going to try and rush up to Scotland next week to visit some of the locations mentioned in book because they are real but I haven't got them quite right in my descriptions as I've never been before.
 

Sonya Heaney

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Okay, so my second book got very publicly trashed by someone with an agenda against me (I'm evil :)), but if you want to buy the first one that's on sale for $0.99 at the moment ... !!!!

Edit: I am going to add that this is the first time I've ever cried about anything that's crap about publishing. I don't think my books are masterpieces, but $0.99? A bargain!

Oh - Harlequin. I didn't see your post. Wow!
 
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leabharlannkay

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Hello all!

I'm a recent addition to the thread, but I've been on sub since the end of April. I'm almost 8 weeks into round two and all of a sudden it's KILLING me. I was feeling great through round 1. The waiting wasn't bothering me and the rejections were all lovely. Now that I've heard back from 3 of the 8 editors in round two, still lovely rejections, I'm suddenly doubting everything and submission is all I can think about. I can't even focus on my next project like all the advice says because I'm doubting myself too much to make any meaningful progress. Gahhhhh.
 

TeresaRose

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Carrie, thanks for sending good luck. This past week I've received another three rejections! Bah-humbug!! I just have to keep going, think positively. There's always self-publishing, but that just seems like it has such a huge learning curve, no one to hold your hand and guide one properly. I definitely relate to Richard Dreyfus' Close Encounter obsession with copying the Devil Mountain shape out of everything. I mention it in my first novel, actually (not published....yet?), and I've had this obsession with working with driftwood. :Shrug: I also want to add that it's fun, and very fulfilling, to speak to experts about what you're writing. I remember when I went to speak to a detective....for three hours! I felt very validated, and when he repeated one of my main character's names, wow, it was pretty cool.

Sonya Heaney. Sorry that you've cried over your recent publishing experience. But it is a great thing you've been published, and you are very talented. I also love your book covers. I think we've all shed tears over our literary journeys. Sometimes, it's a good way to vent - get it out of our systems.
 

Harlequin

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Welcome leahb x Complete sympathy for the madness. It is hard to write.

I've been reading Before And After The Book Deal by Courtney Maum this summer, and would tentatively recommend it as a distraction you can still obsess over. It goes from writing stage through to querying, submission, publication, and beyond, with lots of info about what to expect and what is going on behind the scenes.

First Draft: Track Changes podcast also has a 9 episode special on getting published. Includes querying, submission, acquisitions, advances, rejections, marketing, and so forth. Or if you don't like listening to stuff audio wise there is a transcript for each episode you can read
 

Sonya Heaney

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PeteMC - well, aren't you just a show-off. :D That sounds amazing. “Peaky Blinders with swords.” Something I would love, and something I'll have to share with my brother and father. I bet it's been annoying saying nothing for ages!

Sonya Heaney. Sorry that you've cried over your recent publishing experience. But it is a great thing you've been published, and you are very talented. I also love your book covers. I think we've all shed tears over our literary journeys. Sometimes, it's a good way to vent - get it out of our systems.

Oh, it was late at night when I typed that! It was one bad review, but it's from someone at a big American review site who knows she hates my writing, but who keeps requesting my books for review! I have had a lot of amazing, lovely reviews, but that vindictiveness is just weird!

I have no idea what's going on with my next book. Tomorrow morning I'm leaving for a stay at a farm hundreds of kilometres into the Australian Outback, and I won't have the internet until the middle of next week. That's going to be weird!
 

Sonya Heaney

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Hang on - I realised I sound like I don't want to to go and stay on the farm! Even though it's too hot now, it has a fire pit. And cows and sheep. And a resident dog. The fact Australia invented Wi-Fi, and now we barely have it, is ridiculous. But I'm happy for the break away from all the stress.
 

Carrie

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Greetings!

Litdawg—Thank you.

Harlequin—So exciting! And congratulations. Isn’t it lovely to hear your stuff positively described in a way you would never imagine?

TeresaRose—Sorry about the rejections. The process can be so brutal.

Leabharlannkay—Oh dear! Hang on and take care of yourself.

PeteMC—Monster Congratulations!

Sonya—I am so sorry for the review. There are a few people in that profession (and I think it is very few) who do seem disturbed. I had a very dear friend filleted for a stage performance. Unlike books, unless you are in New York, there will likely be only one or two reviews of a show. She never performed again. It was heartbreaking and so unnecessarily cruel. I do not understand the motivation and you are wise to realize there is something going on that has nothing whatsoever to do with you or your work.

Well, as I shared earlier, I’ve made the decision to go with a different agent for the fiction series I am writing. It was a hard decision, but I know it's the right one. I realized, a few days ago, that I was not looking at all the possibilities. Every writers’ conference has been moved online and most of those include networking and pitching opportunities with NY agents. So I signed up for one and got my first choice of agents to speak with. She is not taking unsolicited queries and I just read an interview in the NY Times with her.

I am also taking a “How to Pitch” workshop because I signed with my current agent while still in the MFA program and figured I could use the tips. Then there are two additional days of networking, presentations, and panels—many of which look interesting—for a grand total of less than $300!

I would easily spend five times that to get myself to the east coast, pay for lodging, etc., etc. At the very least, I know I’ll be able to better query by the end (something I was also spared meeting my agent face-to-face) and have a better grasp on the current state of publishing in these peculiar times. Win/win/win! There was a Zoom orientation meeting last night. If this goes well, I might attend another one this fall.

It’s good to keep in mind that these times can provide opportunities as well as hardships. Good luck with all your submissions and writing challenges and keep the faith!
 

Fuchsia Groan

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Pete, that’s fantastic news! Congratulations, and I can’t wait to see this on the screen.

Sonya, I hope you enjoy the farm and get some rest and relaxation! Where I live is similar; the rural parts are gorgeous, but many don’t have broadband yet.

Harlequin, day-um!!! I am so happy for you, and I can’t wait to hear the details.

Carrie, that sounds like a great conference! I hope it’s fruitful for you.

Well, I got a review in a very prominent venue, but, without being overly negative, it said something that made me doubt my writing. So that’s a mix of emotions. I’m trying to be reconciled to the possibility that the book in question just doesn’t appeal to readers. It’s hard, because I like the book and there’s a lot of me in there, even if it’s not my favorite thing I’ve written. And of course I’m very, very grateful for any press attention, especially from a publication I read daily!

Mainly I’m just hanging in here, caring for a very old and sick cat. I do have some other news, but I can’t talk about that yet...
 

CameronJohnston

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Greats news, Pete :)

Sonya, I'm sorry for that review. Some people can be so cruel :(

Harlequin - Way to go! :) Can't wait to hear all the details.

TeresaRose - Rejections and the wait itself really wear you down. Fingers crossed you get some better news soon.

Fuchsia Groan - Poor little kitty. It's so hard when they get old. And with regards to that review, we writers are so prone to doubt at times but I'm sure it will find its readers.

*edit* OH! TheBookseller just announced mine: https://www.thebookseller.com/news/johnston-returns-angry-robot-third-title-1220963
 
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litdawg

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Pete and Cameron--Congratulations on your announcements!
Sonya and Fuchsia Groan--Reading the reviews must be excruciating and difficult. The genre pretty much requires a mixture of praise and criticism if the review goes beyond a paragraph or so. That's hard to receive in a public forum.

My agent liked the revisions I sent, and she's resubmitted to the press that gave the helpful critique and will go out on sub to a few more editors next week. Now I have to go through Bk2 to make it consistent with the changes I just made to Bk1.
 

Harlequin

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Congratulations Pete and Cameron! I saw the announcements on social media and dipped back here to check. What exciting times :)

Many thanks Fuschia / Carrie / Cameron. Announcement has been pushed back from Nov to "indefinite" (as is the way of this industry) so I will continue to nurse the full news awhile longer :)
 

S. Eli

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i missed so much! loads of awesome news in here - congrats to everyone. I have nothing to share, personally lol - cakes and hugs for all!!
 

Sonya Heaney

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Ooh, Cameron, I also love that title!

To preserve my sanity I've been working on something in an entirely different genre. I hope to finish it by Christmas.

After many hours of driving (not me, thank god) I'm back home from the middle of the countryside. The farm I was staying on start shearing tomorrow, and yesterday there were (literally) seven-thousand sheep blocking the way between the road and the farmhouse. It was very cute, very loud, and very smelly! I haven't been anywhere since Covid, but we haven't had the virus for months, and I figured five days on a farm was safe enough.
Plus, I met a very nice dog!

Edit: Fuchsia - I missed your post. That's the problem with some reviews. It's not that it's negative or otherwise; it's the way something is worded. It makes you doubt the way you write. That's my issue at the moment, and the thing is, I suspect they might have a point!
 
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RaggyCat

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Congrats to those of you with good news and announcements and good news that can't yet be announced! I've seen a few of these on Twitter, but well done again on here, too. And also well done to those of you who've been busily writing and revising away - I'm impressed!

I've kind of been lurking around the thread again - no news either good nor bad on sub book - and I feel so weird and stressed IRL. The only thing going on here is that I'm working up a sample for an IP book project that a publisher approached my agent about. I may not get it, but at least it's distracting. Has anyone here worked on an IP project before? I didn't know very much about them prior to this.

Also, @Sonya - guess who is now reading your latest book :)
 

Sonya Heaney

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Ugh, Raggy. The publishing world seems to have ground to a halt. I can't believe how slow the last few months have been. I've been saving my sanity by judging writing contest entries all weekend - and I really hope I haven't said anything soul-destroying in my comments.

Also, @Sonya - guess who is now reading your latest book :)

Oh no! Please keep in mind it's the book that gave me a breakdown. :roll: I was very happy to send it off and never see it again.

On the other hand, that crafty Artist's Secret book cover recreation my publisher asked me to do should be going online soon. I made a costume for a doll! It's hilariously not-good! (When the marketing person sends you back an email full of this !!!! and laughter, you know it's funny ...)
 

RaggyCat

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Sonya - Judging contest entries? That sounds like fun! It's the Artist's Secret I'm reading, is that the one? I know I should read your debut first, but TAS was on my Kindle from the pre-order so I just dived into it. Exactly what I need as a stress escape.

I remember the crafty book recreation! I think if you're not sure if you can pull off something spectacular, laughs is the way to go. And hey, making someone laugh always makes one feel good, right?!

On another note - what's the quickest anyone has written a book? I ask as if I get this IP project my agent is tauting, that would mean 75k in three months, which I really worry about. It'll be easier if the publisher provides a chapter by chapter outline, but impossible if I have to plot the thing, too. I've managed a 75k book in six months before, with plotting included, but that was an unusually easy writing experience I don't expect to be replicated.
 

Harlequin

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Anchor (ms2) was my quickest, at 96k in 7 months.

PF (ms3) was 120k in about 18 months but the next one needs to be 120k again in under a year, ideally.

I don't know if genre contributes to that or whether IP makes things slower/faster though!