The Next Circle of Hell, Vol. 2

Fuchsia Groan

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Definitely check with your agent, RaggyCat! If you do it, it’ll give me courage to do it too. I need to see those rejections.

I announced my blurb news. I kind of hate my self-promotion persona at this point, and it’s not like I’m effective, since I’m awful at social media, but I keep on trying.
 

RaggyCat

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Good luck on sub, lianna! I think a spreadsheet I could access would play to my more insane, obsessive tendencies.

So I emailed my agency, and the assistant got back to me and it turns out that my agent is actually back in work now, albeit part-time for the moment. She emailed today to tell me that I have two more Rs, but they are actually from two publishers I didn't know she'd submitted to (she did do a very small second round before she went off, after all). The three who originally got it in March haven't got back to her, so she'll chase. At least I know now - it feels a very 2020 thing to get not the Rs you were braced for but unexpected ones instead...
 

RaggyCat

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P.S. Fuchsia - do chase! And I don't think you're going at all overboard with the promotion so don't worry about that at all. If anything, I think you could get away with doing more and no one would bat an eyelid. I can well appreciate how you feel about it, though.
 

S. Eli

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yayyy, lianna!!! congrats on hitting sub (and on the full request)

I haven't heard anything at all, and I've just passed the month mark. Trying not to tempt the gods by even talking about the letter that comes before "s" but the other half of me just wants to know. My agent will check in in about 3 weeks, which makes me feel better lol. But in GOOD news (I guess?) I revised my previous MS and turned it into them last week! They said they'll get me notes this friday but they said it without ANY compliments, so i'm freaking out about THAT at a normal level.
 

Sonya Heaney

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Bizarrely, I've completely stopped paying attention to when I hear from my publisher. After a year and a half of stressing and watching my email inbox at all hours of the day and night, I'm very suddenly much happier - and getting more writing done. But ... argh! It took me a long time to get used to how the industry operates and the fact there's nothing I can do to make things happen faster.
 

aceafer

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How long do you guys usually have before you hear back about edits? I sent my agent my first attempt following the letter with the admittance that I'm sure it will be a back-and-forth process and I don't expect my first round to hit the mark. She replied and said she'd get back ASAP and this was just over two weeks ago. I do know that two weeks is not a long time! But I'm just wondering on sort of the average (if there is one) amount of time that would be reasonable to expect to hear back in, I suppose.
 

Putputt

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Ahh! It has been forever. I wrote a long reply here a couple days ago, but it got swallowed by the internets, so urgh.

Fuchsia - I am loving all the amazing reviews of your book!!! SO well-deserved!!! I can't wait to have a copy in my Kindle!!!! I'm with you in feeling like I majorly suck at social media. So glad to hear I'm not the only one struggling to go through the endless maze that is social media...

Raggy - Oh that is very definitely 2020, lol. I hope that the three remaining will read soon and fall in love. Fingers crossed for you!!! And how goes it with the raggykittens? The baby hippos are just DONE. Also, we received news that the schools here won't reopen until 2021 at the earliest, which is sensible but also really crushing emotionally. So haaaa. Much love from one parent to another.

S Eli - That *is* definitely good news!! I'm sure your agent will love it and will have lots of great notes on how to make it even strongerer. I've heard of subs going even slower than usual due to furloughs etc, so here's to hoping yours is at the top of the TBR pile...

Sonya - Thank you so much for linking to my thread!!!!! Aahhh!!! I can't believe I finally got to share it. It's been such an amazing ride. You'll have to tell me the secret to keeping calm when your publisher emails, lol. That'll go a long way in saving most of our sanity, I'm sure.

Aceafer - I've sent my current agent two diff MSs, and with each one she took less than 2 weeks to get back to me with edits. My previous agent took anywhere between 2 to 4 weeks. The agent before THAT took 3 to 4 MONTHS, which was why I left her. I don't know if there's an average, but I do know that my personal limit is 4 weeks, and anything beyond that, barring extenuating circumstances, is cause for concern with me.

I finished my women's fiction's sequel a few days ago and have spent the past few days reading through it and compiling a list of edits to make to Draft Zero. I have to say, the list is...really...effing long, lol. I'm so intimidated. Just...gotta get through it somehow. *whine* *moan* mworrrorrrrr
 

MercyMe

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Putputt, I'm over the moon for you!! Just thrilling news! I love that you write in several genres and it doesn't seem to be a problem. Your agent or the editors haven't said "Oh, wait--MG? YA? I thought she was a Women's fic writer" ? Also you do write fast. I would love to have your brain. You can have my liver in exchange. :)

Typical for me, no sooner had I sent off email to Agent saying I wanted to put YA book that was on sub on hold and write something else before considering round two when I realized I could fix it. Agent was happily surprised to get the revision. She'll get back to me at the end of the month.

In terms of wait times to hear from agents, I'm in the 4 weeks and then I have a problem camp. Agent says she really busy so that's good news. I thought publishing had died.
 

litdawg

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Tis the season for agents to check in . . . I had a phone call and flurry of emails with my agent this week. I've been on sub since mid-April, and my agent has sent three rounds of pitches, totaling about fifteen houses/editors. There's still one open full request from the first round and one new full request from this week's pitches. There's been three Rs and the rest are crickets. Agent says she didn't nudge in June because she thought it would be pointless. She'll start nudging again this month. I've only been out for 2.5 months, which doesn't feel long after having queried agents for over 10 months. Ehh, I've also had a lot to distract me. I'm grateful that I have a positive and energetic agent who is investing the time to learn publishers in my field. I also noodled with my opening scene and she nixed the changes with good feedback.

I'm glad to hear your agent is at least partially back to work, Raggy. Lianna, I envy your spreadsheet access :) Congrat's on the full request already!

Litspouse and I listened to a 2.5 hour school board meeting last night, hoping for clarity on options for Litkids this fall. They floated a confusing three option parent-choice plan that will now be reviewed publicly for two weeks before they make a decision on July 21. Aaagh--it's just a tease. there's an option for everyone--full return, online only, or supervised homeschool--but no clarity on whether they'll really be able to offer all options until after July 21. I will bury myself in work for the next two weeks to avoid all the thinks and frets and moans.
 

Shoeless

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Ahh! It has been forever. I wrote a long reply here a couple days ago, but it got swallowed by the internets, so urgh.

I was wondering when you'd poke your head in here again. Your news is great, but then I already told you that much earlier. Still, I think with the kind of things that are happening to you, you're probably "allowed" to say "Yeah, 2020 was not such a bad year." I don't think anyone will hold it against you, considering how things are going for you.

I'm just about ready to go on sub again with two projects. Although one of them is a comic, so that's a bit weird, because my wife is the artist, and that means it's a double-agent thing, with her agent and mine working together on it.
 

Sonya Heaney

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Putputt - look at your signature now! You're very big and important.

You'll have to tell me the secret to keeping calm when your publisher emails, lol. That'll go a long way in saving most of our sanity, I'm sure.

I don't know what changed. I've been sitting here for the past couple of weeks all happy and contented and not having a panic when emails come through. It's very weird. :roll: I must be somewhere between the "resignation" and "acceptance" stages in dealing with the publishing industry!

My biggest problem at the moment is that I've changed the names of all four main characters in my WIP several times, and I still have no idea what names to use. As long as they don't come up as serial killers or porn stars in a Google search, I suppose any of them will do.
 

Elle.

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aceafer - my agent is crazy fast so she got back me in about a week after the first round of edits and a couple of days after the second round. Technically in the world of publishing I'm starting to discover that 2 weeks is nothing but if you're worried just drop your agent an email asking how she's getting on with your MS.

lianna - go luck with the sub, that spreadsheet sounds like a great way to being kept in the loop.

S. Eli - I hope the edits and comments about your revised MS are positive. Let us know once you hear!

Putputt - congrats on finishing draft zero, at least you have something to edit now! Do you know when they are planning to start pre-publication publicity for The Obsession?

Raggy - glad to you got an update from your agent and fingers crossed for those outstanding submissions. Have you manage to speak to your agent about your next project?

litdawg - Fingers crossed for that full that is still outstanding

Shoeless - good luck with your upcoming sub!

Sonya Heaney - Haha... I actually never thought before about goggling the names of my characters. Did you ever change a character's name after checking google?


Quick question - is it a US publishing thing that agents don't send out the full MS to publishers in the initial submission? I'm asking because I never heard in the UK about not sending the full MS in the initial sub to publishers.

Otherwise not much to report here. My agent updated me to say that my UK and US editors are coordinating their edits and I should get their combined editorial letter next month. In the meantime, I'm working on book 2 hoping I can get a draft zero by the end of the month.
 

Sonya Heaney

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Sonya Heaney - Haha... I actually never thought before about goggling the names of my characters. Did you ever change a character's name after checking google?

Sometimes when I choose a common name I end up changing it because there'd always a semi-famous person who has it. But the main reason I check is because a few years ago a book (by a US author) set in Britain came out, and she'd accidentally given her main character the same name as the British Prime Minister. Honestly, I think someone should have picked up on that at some stage in the publishing process!
 

RaggyCat

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Putputt- The raggy kittens are doing much better! Their nursery has reopened, so they're going there a couple of days a week which has rubbed the edges of the craziness off. I am VERY impressed at how much you get done with no school for baby hippos! I don't blame them for being done (and you too, actually - keeping littles stimulated like this is HARD). Big well done for finishing your follow up book though! I love how diverse your signed books are.

MercyMe - I'm glad you had a break through with your YA that gives it further pitch potential. Fingers crossed that your agent is speedy in letting you know what she thinks!

litdawg - I'm glad you feel supported by your agent. That is so important in the relationship. Fingers crossed on your full! And argh, that sounds a highly confusing schooling option - I hope you've figured out what works best for the lit kids (I love we have lit kids, baby hippos and raggy kittens on this thread).

Sonya - I Google search character names too! I desperately try to avoid matches with my characters IRL, especially if the real life versions were well-known for negative reasons. Can't believe someone had a character named after a Prime Minister! My husband taught a Tony Blair in one of his classes (same name as a PM) -I can't imagine his school life was easy.

Elle - I haven't spoken to my agent about my new project yet. I'll chase her towards the end of this week - I figure she may still be catching up, especially as she's on reduced hours. I hope she thinks it has legs as I've got into writing it now. Sounds like all is going well on your end, though, which is good.
 

aceafer

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Thanks for the feedback on times everyone - I emailed my agents today partly to nudge, but partly because I'd like to work on something else while I'm waiting and wanted to know if they'd like to know about it first. I think the delay may be because I have two co-agents and while one is quite new and fast to respond, the other is more established with more clients, so maybe the first is waiting on the second to have time to also give her feedback.

I find it easy to pick first names but I HATE picking surnames, I usually end up using ones from people I used to know otherwise they just sound false to me.
 

Putputt

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Mercy - Haha! Thank you for the brain/liver exchange offer. I might take you up on that, lol! I'm lucky that my agent is so game for anything. She actually signed me for my MG, so it was a pleasant surprise when she was so open to receiving the adult novel. YAY to your agent being happy to receive your YA! I hope she reads quickly and loves it!

Litdawg - I really empathize with the complexity of school stuff. Baby hippo1 is starting K1 next week, and oh my lord, the amount of admin and logistics that need to be figured out... T_T

Shoeless - 2020 has truly been a mixed bag for me and my family. Lots of highs and a few lows, but overall can't complain. How amazing that you're going out on sub again, and with a collaboration with your wife! What a wonderful feeling that must be.

Sonya - Very jealous of your publishing zen! You really must bottle that up and send some our way, lol!

Elle - That's so interesting that your US and UK pubs are coordinating their edits! I'm curious, did you sell in the UK first and then to the US as a foreign territory? (It's okay if you don't feel comfortable sharing, obviously!) To answer your question, it depends on the agent. I've had agents who only submit a pitch email to editors, but my current agent sends the full MS along with her initial pitch. I have no idea when Sourcebooks is planning to start the publicity for The Obsession! I think typically they start 6 months before publication? Yours might start earlier as it's such a huge deal, they'll probably pour a lot of time and effort into it!

Raggy - Omg, YAY to the nursery opening up again!!! You must be SO relieved. So we actually ended up hiring a private tutor for the baby hippos, and it has really taken the edge off as well, because I just kept feeling like I was failing them so hard. It's a risk having someone come to the house each day though...blergh, it's just such a shitty situation for the entire world, isn't it! I hope this means you have a lot more writing time and time to just...be on your own!

aceafer - I hope your agents reply to you quickly!

I've finished editing the first draft of my WF sequel and will be sending it hopefully tomorrow to my toughest beta...aaaa!! So nervous!
 

Sonya Heaney

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Raggy - WHY would someone name their kid Tony Blair? If it was before he was PM, fine, but otherwise ... Did his parents want him to get bullied?

aceafer - yeah, surnames are horrible to choose. I'm trying to stay historically accurate with my names (my current book is set in 1878), but all the names are so dorky!

I've finished editing the first draft of my WF sequel and will be sending it hopefully tomorrow to my toughest beta...aaaa!! So nervous!

I feel like I should have beta readers, but I'm such a private writer. Instead I send my stuff straight off to the commissioning editor at my publisher and spend weeks worrying about it!

Honestly, I don't have anything much to say, and I've given myself a day off writing. I'm mostly here because there's a very rude and toxic person in the Australian writers' group I'm part of and today it's "pick on Sonya" day. :rolleyes::rolleyes: You know the type: the person who sets themselves up as the oracle on an issue, gains lots of fans, and then attacks everything you say. In better news, it's *beautiful* and warm here today for mid-winter. And it's the weekend in a few hours!
 

Elle.

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Sonya - God I hate those kind of people... Enjoy you day off writing and your weekend. It's really nice and sunny here too but I'm at the part in my novel where things are getting dark so I'm going to need to write at night to get in the right frame of mind.

Raggy - fingers crossed she'll like the sound of your new project. Must be nice to finally have her back. I think we got the last couple of territories signed for now until the next influx, which might be Frankfurt, if it happens, otherwise my agent said she might re-submit to foreign publishers once we deliver the final MS.

aceafer - have you heard from your agent about the new project you're interested in? How does the co-agenting work? I don't know anybody in that situation and I'm curious about it.

Putputt - congrats on finishing your first round of edits... Oh, beta now the wait begins. I don't mind, we pretty much sold concurrently, US was a foreign territories and we had auctions in both the US and UK. We accepted final offers for both countries on the same day. Thanks for explaining, as far as I'm aware my agent just sends her pitch and the full MS. My publisher's pitch detailed all the pre-publication publicity they want to do, I just told to them that I'm happy to get involved in whatever I can to help them sell my book... just tell me where to show up and I'll be there. With a story like The Obsession there is so much potential for some interesting publicity!
 

Carrie

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Hullo!
I hope you don't mind my hopping onto this thread. I am new here and just looking for folks with similar experiences. I'm a syndicated humor columnist (Andrews McMeel) and I only recently started writing fiction. It was a wonderful surprise! It appears this wants to be a series and I'm working on the first draft of the second in what I imagine will be a five-book series. The only problem is... (it wouldn't me much of a story without a plot complication) my agent. I signed when I was still in grad school, five years ago. (I went very late. Writing is a third career.) And while she is a lovely person and quite a skilled editor with 30 years at Random House, I can't stand the thought of committing to her for this series. I've been reading your thread because 1) I don't know anyone who's fired their agent and 2) I was wondering if co-agenting within an agency was ever a thing, but primarily 3) I needed a bit of validation that I am not being a total prima donna and firing my agent is actually okay!

I don't think she has any strategy whatsoever. I have tried numerous times to explain synergies (sorry, I hate that word too) between my column readership and potential book audience, marketing plans, etc. and I just don't think she gets it. She failed to sell my memoir in New York after a really promising start (recommended to Algonquin's board, two reads at Random House) but then she seemed to sort of... punt. On top of it all, she takes 2-3 months to reply to revisions and at least two weeks to schedule a simple call. I can literally write faster than she reads. I think I might run mad doing a series with her.

I guess I am just asking for help growing a backbone. At present, I have queried a handful of agents, just to get the lay of the land. (I'm frankly not sure my manuscript is even quite ready, but I was curious.) Four have read and passed, but all with really positive things to say. Is this hopeful? (Remember, I've never queried!) Anyway, it is lovely to see all these active, ambitious writers and I would be delighted to share the journey with you. I found myself incredibly inspired, just reading back a few pages about your trials and travails. I have no community of writers and I do feel very alone at times. You seem like a wonderful bunch!

All the very best,
Carrie
 

Sonya Heaney

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Carrie - I'm running out the door right now (no new virus cases in my state for eight days!), but I hope someone with more experience can come in and help you. I know for a fact there are people in this thread who have left an agent and moved on to another.
 

RaggyCat

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Elle - From what I read, I think Frankfurt will take place in a reduced capacity, but sans some of the biggest publishers. So says The Bookseller, anyway. I certainly don't get the vibe that it will be cancelled.

Sonya - That sounds like a toxic kind of person! I hope you're able to enjoy your weekend regardless - breaks can be very productive. Yay for no new virus cases in your state for 8 days! My brother in law lives in Melbourne and has not been a happy bunny. And if I'd been called Tony Blair by my parents I would legit be going by my middle name!

Putputt - I hope your beta is both positive and helpful with your draft! A private tutor sounds SUCH a good idea, for your sanity but also the kids. One thing I've realised since March is how (weirdly) unnatural it is for parents to be with kids ALL THE TIME. Even though my kids aren't at nursery loads, the breathing space has been so beneficial for all of us.

aceafer - I often pick surnames for characters taken from people/characters of programmes I happen to be watching at the time. My MC in the sub book shares a surname with one of the Eggheads (quiz show).

Carrie - Welcome to the thread! Like you, I didn't have many writers to talk to prior to coming on here, and this community has helped me a lot. I'm someone on this thread who has parted ways with an agent and found a new one. It's actually not uncommon to move agents, something I discovered after I joined AW. Before then I felt like somehow I'd failed, like the onus was on me to make an agent relationship that was breaking down good again.

In my case, my first agent sold three of my books, but in the years after that things shifted (she moved to mostly repping MG, the YA I was writing moved into older-YA territory) and she became lukewarm about what I was writing, and wouldn't submit what I wrote to publishers. Not a good situation, so after a phone conversation I sent her an email explaining that I was moving on. She was fine with it, all very amicable, and she guessed it was coming anyway. Since then I've found a new agent more aligned with my current writing interests. Still on good terms with previous agent.

What I learned from that experience is there's no point sticking with an agent who isn't passionate about your work just for the sake of having an agent, even if you've worked well together before. Things and people change. Also, an agent can be a good agent on paper (sales, clients etc) and still be a bad agent for you.

Does your current agent know you're querying? If she doesn't, I's suggest you need to have a conversation with her asap - agents chat to each other and it wouldn't be the best situation if she found out from someone else. It does sound from what you say like she's no longer the best fit for what you want to do going forwards.
 

S. Eli

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@carrie, of course I haven't gone through this myself (just got my first agent like 3 months ago), but I remember an author doing a thread on this. I will post:

actually it was a blog post but this thread has some info
https://twitter.com/MissDahlELama/status/1147945140671135745

blog post here
https://dailydahlia.wordpress.com/blog-series/perpetual-wips-2/perpetual-wips-mid-career-authors/

https://dailydahlia.wordpress.com/2020/01/22/perpetual-wips-returns-mid-career-authors/


hope that helps!

*floats away into nothingness*
 

lizmonster

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@Carrie - another blog post that might help is this one, from Chuck Wendig:

http://terribleminds.com/ramble/2017/02/14/is-it-time-dear-writer-to-ditch-your-literary-agent/

I'm on my second agent. My first fired me, although that was more timing than anything else; it had been apparent for a while our relationship wasn't working. In hindsight, Chuck's blog post covered a number of problems I'd been ignoring for a while.

My advice would be to remember it's a business relationship, and there's nothing unprofessional about ending a business relationship that is no longer working for your business. I know a number of writers who still speak quite highly of agents they're no longer working with. Moving on is not an uncommon thing at all.
 

Shoeless

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Carrie, if you REALLY wanna' know about leaving agents and getting news, the current Super Success Story here, Putputt, is The One to talk to. She's gone through multiple agents... and now has a Netflix deal, so clearly it worked for her, though she is the definition of Not An Overnight Success Story.

I'm on my second agent. I had my first agent for several years, like you, but he was unable to sell anything, so we eventually parted ways. Then it took a few more years for me to get my second agent, and she managed to sell my book. We all hope the first agent will be the one to make the difference, but sometimes that's not the case. It may be a matter of not the right time, with poor market conditions, or it may be the agent you selected was not the right one for you, or the way you work, or even the way you'd like your stuff submitted. So while it's never fun to move on from agent, for some of us, it's been a necessary part of the journey, and ultimately worked out better on the next attempt. Or several, if you're talking about PutPutt...
 

Carrie

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Wow! Thank you so much for your thoughtful responses.

@RaggyCat
there's no point sticking with an agent who isn't passionate about your work just for the sake of having an agent
Love that. And I needed to hear it. I am not entirely certain my agent gets passionate about anything. I know she admires my writing, per se, but I see little sign of enthusiasm about my career. My agency looks terrific on paper. My agent... not so much. As far as further querying goes, I really just put out a handful of queries to see if I was delusional. Also, thank you for the warm welcome. I have had zero luck finding a writing community since I left the graduate program and it seems every person I went to school with is no longer writing. It gets lonely!

@Shoeless Thank you so much for the vote of confidence. I really questioned the way we were going about selling my first book but, hey, it was my first book. What do I know? I still don't know much, but I would not go forward with a strategy I didn't fully understand again -- and I would certainly like to know there was, in fact, a plan in place if it didn't sell on the first (or second) round. That didn't happen and I don't any confidence that it would this time around either. The difference would be that with the new book I'd be stuck with this agent for the duration of the series -- at least that's how my current contract reads and I suspect that is the norm.

@Lizmonster I will be reading the article this evening. Thank you for that and for sharing your experience. I don't think my agent fires anyone and I suspect that's a big part of the problem. You are absolutely right about it being a professional relationship but I typically have a terrible time ending relationships of any kind!

@S. Eli Thank you for the links! I started reading and then had to get back to writing. I really do need this validation and I had no luck when looking for info on the web. Thank you!

Today's Update: I got another rejection late yesterday. This agent says,
I have no doubt you will find interest elsewhere.
Do you think I should reply, "From your lips to God's ears?" Probably not.

Thank you all for your terrific help and encouragement!

Carrie