The Next Circle of Hell, Vol. 2

JeanGenie said:

I thought large advances in themselves were often used as a sort of advertisement of new writers? A way to get attention like "debut author scored record-breaking advance"

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Yep, and it kind of annoys me, but that's the business, I guess. Every angle will be exploited!

Atlantic12 said:

Yep, and it kind of annoys me, but that's the business, I guess. Every angle will be exploited!

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So when, in chibi's case, they want to remain shtum, what does it mean?

JeanGenie said:

So when, in chibi's case, they want to remain shtum, what does it mean?

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Probably this?

CameronJohnston said:

I reckon the deal with publishers not wanting to discuss their offers is that it's less to do with the whole 'vulgar' thing, but more along the lines of revealing their internal workings to competitors and it possibly affecting their future negotiations and deals with other authors and agents. "Hey, you offered X amount to X for Y. Why am I getting this pittance? I shall take that other offer." It means they can low-ball people if they like and nobody would be any the wiser. And also other publishers will be watching with interest what sort of of deals are being offered if it was all made public. I can see their point of view from a business angle as it does give them a lot more freedom.

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Thank you for the congrats, everyone. Really glad to have had this forum to vent to for years and years. And years. And years. You guys saved my sanity plenty of times.

JeanGenie said:

I thought large advances in themselves were often used as a sort of advertisement of new writers? A way to get attention like "debut author scored record-breaking advance"

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I have to admit that more people in my public life and in media have paid attention because it was mentioned. They might have anyway? Who knows. But I never would’ve mentioned it to them if it wasn’t already out there. And I agree with Atlantic. It doesn’t mean one book is better than another ... it’s only one piece of a very large puzzle.

I always assumed not talking money means they don't say "in a significant deal" or whatever in the PM announcement, but there might be articles in other media outlets that say "in an alleged six-figure-deal" and that's part of the hype. Seems like whenever there's a splashy book deal, it gets mentioned/hinted at one way or another.

Disclosing sums for deals generates buzz and publicity - especially when it comes to a debut. It seems to be that no one much talks about something in advance if it doesn't a) have that hype or b) hits on some relevant trend that generates chat. I know that when my debut was announced no one really talked about it at all because (rather oddly) the publisher also announced a much bigger deal in the same press release (a US author whose books they had won the right to publish in the UK). So, because my deal was a good one but not a "OMG six figures) or "OMG auction" deal it kind of... made no impact? That's my take anyway. Publishers want to get readers and those in the book trade talking and anticipating and money is one very obvious way of doing it.

I don’t love how they announce only the big amounts, because it can contribute to misapprehensions, like people outside publishing thinking every book deal is a “blockbuster” deal and six-figure advances are commonplace. Sometimes announcements also use terms like “at auction” and “in a preempt” to suggest tons of money when that’s not necessarily the case.

Vanity Fair ran an article about one of those blockbuster deals (The Art of Fielding) that cited some more typical advances to illustrate that $600k for a non-celebrity debut novelist is really rare. That was educational, I thought.

For the same reason, I like it when other authors are transparent about their deals (and their sales). I’ll share that info with writers I know well, because I do feel like lifting the veil of secrecy can empower us to a degree. It’s helpful to know that deals cover a wide range beyond the trumpeted huge ones, and that a huge advance doesn’t always translate into a huge PR push, and that certain subgenres routinely get bigger advances than others. For a writer trying to navigate this minefield, hard knowledge is power. I’m not ready to post or blog my own info, though, and I can understand why others want to keep it completely private.

Niiicola said:

I always assumed not talking money means they don't say "in a significant deal" or whatever in the PM announcement, but there might be articles in other media outlets that say "in an alleged six-figure-deal" and that's part of the hype. Seems like whenever there's a splashy book deal, it gets mentioned/hinted at one way or another.

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Yes, it's kind of fun to work out the hints sometimes. I was glad my publishers didn't print what my book sold for, but it ended up in a trade article about one of my editors, which mentioned my book as her latest deal blah-blah-blah. To be honest, seeing the number felt really weird, even if it's a ball park. I just feel proud to be on the road to being published, and I'm glad to be paid decently for it, but it feels strange to flash it around. That's a part of the biz that takes some getting used to.

And Fuchsia said it well re why reporting figures in the trade pubs sometimes annoys me. But yes, giving hard numbers to trusted people in the background is fine and can be really useful info. Money is one of the few solid ways to signal market value in a book, at least before the sales numbers come in, so it is important, sure. But it is still a gamble on the part of the publishers. I think of them laying bets on red or black and then turning the wheel. The average person has no idea that's how it works.

The last month or so has been a very "good news/bad news" sort of experience. Like, today I got another rejection on the latest novel, though it was a super generous, very regretful sort of rejection. Still, it's definitely bad news. On the other hand, I now know who my cover artist is for the upcoming book and have been sent some very cool concepts for it, so that's definitely good news.

This, I guess, is what life as a mid-list author is like if you don't have a multi-book deal. You're getting yes's and no's at the same time.

I think publishing is like 95% hype. I'm sure the music and film industries are the same, but it's weird to be in it, like everybody is making this art, but some of it gets $X and some gets $Y, and if other people are interested, the value automatically skyrockets. It's like when you're shopping and somebody picks a top off the rack and holds it up, and suddenly you realize it's actually very cute and you want it too. I read an article about literary scouts and felt really confused.

Oh, and I hope that didn't come across as disparaging anybody who gets lots of money. It's not actually a bad thing that publishers take on books that they love but aren't sure will sell well and don't get a big advance.

So true about the hype. My debut was announced as being a preempt, and that could well be why a few movie producers contacted my agent immediately afterward. In fact, that could be one big purpose of announcements: to drum up film sales and the like. Two years later, when the book was actually released, there was considerably less fanfare. But then, it was 2016 and people had a lot else to think about.

My new book deals with tech and screen time, which could be timely issues, but in an election year? I just don’t know.

Yes, timing is really key - and none of us can predict that! A book that happens to be bang on trend when it's released will generate more chat than one that is ahead of trend or being released into one that is already saturated.

Congratulations Niiicola, Putputt, and Cameron! (Please add others if I missed you). I was away for a few weeks sunning it up in Greece, and then work got craaaazy, so I missed all the news.

My news is that my book is now available for pre-order! At least, in theory. It's popping up on various sites but it's not live on all of them yet. And now I can show you the cover:

Looks great, Earthling, congratulations!

I'll be very quiet around here until I don't know when. Just lots of book and RL things going on, and I have no idea when I'm supposed to get everything done. I'm trying to stay off various websites as much as possible. But I drop in to lurk and congratulate and spur anyone on who is still on sub!

That cover is adorable, Earthling! The colors should really stand out on a shelf. Congratulations!

My book is coming out in slightly over a year (7/14/20), and I keep having to explain to everyone I tell IRL why it takes so long. Sigh.

Earthling, I love your cover!!!! The colors are gorgeous. And as a copy editor, I'm so pleased to see they snuck in that teeny tiny comma.

Aaaaa that cover!! That really pops! Congratulations, Earthling! And I love the title too, it’s so catchy.

Fuchsia, heh, mine comes out in 2021, and yep, I feel you on the explaining why it takes so long. And answering the dreaded: What’s it about? question.

Right now I’m furiously writing the second book, since everyone says it’s best to get it done ASAP, so I’m trying to fully utilize the time before Book 1 edits come in. Aiming for 1.5K a day, and man, that word count is moving real slow.

That is a snappy cover that basically screams "fun," so I guess it's mission accomplished.

Side topic: anyone playing Wizards Unite? I'm obsessed... it's a great distraction from getting work done.

No, polish, but I have plenty of other games to aid in my procrastination... sigh.

polishmuse said:

Side topic: anyone playing Wizards Unite? I'm obsessed... it's a great distraction from getting work done.

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Oh yes.

2407 7324 2144

When you can't write, might as well murder dark wizards instead.

Fantastic cover Grats Earthling!

JeanGenie said:

So when, in chibi's case, they want to remain shtum, what does it mean?

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That they hate me. Haha no, I think Cameron’s answer was pretty succinct. Agent and I both pushed for “in a significant deal” and were shot down. I was pretty surprised, as it seems very common to use the standard ranges in announcements—IMO I wouldn’t even want the exact dollar amount out there.

But all I get is “at auction.” Which, I mean, I guess implies it was at least six figures. Actually, they refuse to even say “for six figures.”

Boo. It’s not that I want to brag, it’s more that I wan’t to make a splash and get some much needed attention in a crowded debut market.

Plus I was rejected a lot for “marketability concerns” and yes, I am petty, and I do want to strut a little. Does that make me terrible?

I am so sick of waiting for this announcement. No disrespect to my fantastic publisher, agent or editor. I’m just not a patient person. I agreed to the money free announcement just to hurry things up, so it would be nice if things, ya know...happened.

It really should be this week.

Sigh, I’m jet lagged and grumpy. Paris was lovely, but I really fell in love with Bath. #moving.

I waited just a little over a month for my announcement and I swear it felt like a year so I know how you feel. And it still hasn’t appeared in publishers marketplace.

Hope you had a blast in France!

ChibiUsagi said:

That they hate me. Haha no, I think Cameron’s answer was pretty succinct. Agent and I both pushed for “in a significant deal” and were shot down. I was pretty surprised, as it seems very common to use the standard ranges in announcements—IMO I wouldn’t even want the exact dollar amount out there.

But all I get is “at auction.” Which, I mean, I guess implies it was at least six figures. Actually, they refuse to even say “for six figures.”

Boo. It’s not that I want to brag, it’s more that I wan’t to make a splash and get some much needed attention in a crowded debut market.

Plus I was rejected a lot for “marketability concerns” and yes, I am petty, and I do want to strut a little. Does that make me terrible?

I am so sick of waiting for this announcement. No disrespect to my fantastic publisher, agent or editor. I’m just not a patient person. I agreed to the money free announcement just to hurry things up, so it would be nice if things, ya know...happened.

It really should be this week.

Sigh, I’m jet lagged and grumpy. Paris was lovely, but I really fell in love with Bath. #moving.

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Bath?!? You went to Bath? Tell me more!! I've always wanted to go there. When it comes to UK, I've only ever been to London.

And by the way, when they don't want to advertise your advance, I'd take it as a good sign that they think the project can stand on its own without the hype It means you got the advance not because they want the hype attached to it, but on your own

Edit - no disrespect to the ones who have gotten both the big advance and the hype