There's a fun coincidence- I sent mine on 6/27. We'll see if I can get my rejection in under two weeks.
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There's a fun coincidence- I sent mine on 6/27. We'll see if I can get my rejection in under two weeks.
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It's a form response, but the graph about getting past the first slush reader is probably genuine. I imagine, in an organization the size of Daw's, they have different form letters for each "level achieved."
Thanks. That's was my assessment as well. At least I made it off the slush pile.
Gotta take the wins, where you can. LOL
Gotta take the wins, where you can. LOL
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Take heart, that's actually a pretty significant milestone. It means you're writing at a certain level of quality that's enough to engage interest. Now it's just a matter of finding the right subject matter to get a particular editor's interest, but if your craft is solid, that's a big plus in your favor.
Geez, over a year? I thought I was doing well cause I submitted in June of this year and nothing yet...
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On the other end of the spectrum ... I submitted to DAW last month, on a Friday, and received a form rejection by Sunday. Lesson learned: make sure you write a well-thought-out and polished query letter.
Also check their catalogue to see what types of books they're publishing. I failed to do that. It wasn't until after the rejection that I looked at their recent output and discovered they'd just published a book similar to what I'd sent them, right down to the setting, the lead's ethnicity, and the writing style. No wonder I got bounced so fast. Second lesson learned: do your homework.
Also check their catalogue to see what types of books they're publishing. I failed to do that. It wasn't until after the rejection that I looked at their recent output and discovered they'd just published a book similar to what I'd sent them, right down to the setting, the lead's ethnicity, and the writing style. No wonder I got bounced so fast. Second lesson learned: do your homework.
Thanks! That's the most encouragement I've received in a while.
Sometime writing feels like shouting into the wilderness. After a while you begin question whether anyone is even listening.
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Hi everyone! I've been on sub to DAW since late June 2018 (I'm agented). How long do agented authors wait, in general? With the holidays coming up, I have a feeling I won't be hearing back until 2019, but that seems like a really, really long time.
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Congrats on being on sub! Hope it works out for you. I'm going to assume DAW isn't the only place your agent submitted to, and that you're out with a lot of the other SFF imprints. DAW is owned by Random/Penguin, so it sounds like you're in the first round of your submissions to the Big Five.
Honestly, it can take months before editors reach a decision. Usually when you go on sub, you'll receive a few rejections within the first month, and that's the editors who immediately know after requesting that your book isn't what they're looking for after all. After that, the rejections will trickle in much more slowly as the other editors think more seriously about it, and pass it on to second--or even third--reads, before making a decision.
The response time varies a lot depending on the individual publisher and the editor looking at a book. You're right in that editors are likely to start slowing down on responses now that we're hitting the holiday season. But sometimes it can take a while. It's not the case with my current book out on sub, but my own record for waiting time with a Big 5 publisher was three years for a "no."
Daw takes around 4 months + for even agented subs, or so another agent said. Can be less, can be more, but 4 month sisn't unusual.
If you're not agented, my guess is it will be much longer.
If you're not agented, my guess is it will be much longer.
Hi, 8valdemar8, and welcome to AW.
330,000 words is a whopper of a book, particularly for a debut novelist. That may have some bearing on how long it's taking for them to move the manuscript along.
330,000 words is a whopper of a book, particularly for a debut novelist. That may have some bearing on how long it's taking for them to move the manuscript along.
They rejected me twice and both times I heard back pretty quickly, once in only two weeks, the other time was no more than a couple of months, maybe 3 max but I don't think it was that long. Not sure if that means anything, but a longer response might be a good sign.
FWIW, I had put them on my 'no' list because I believe the they do not accept simultaneous submissions.
https://www.penguin.com/static/pages/daw/submissions.php
... and I don't want to wait for months before subbing to other presses.
https://www.penguin.com/static/pages/daw/submissions.php
... and I don't want to wait for months before subbing to other presses.
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Good luck!
I'll tell you something I learned the hard way long ago. If you are a new fiction author and have a novel over 100,000 words, you are definitely facing an uphill battle with agents and publishers, and 330,000 words is well over three times harder. Authors who are already published and have a good track record can get away with this. Some later books in popular series can be enormous.
But note that while Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix is over 250,000 words long, Rowling's first book, Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone was only about 77,000 words long.
But note that while Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix is over 250,000 words long, Rowling's first book, Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone was only about 77,000 words long.
But funnily enough, my 98K word story is deemed 'too short for SFF' by some editors I've interacted with. "Too short for the genre" they say. And some small presses want fantasy to be *over* 100K words--says so right in the submission pages. I've seen at least two like this.
My solution was to write up a 4K word set of appendices, and depending on whether it feels better to query 102K or 98K (because yes, some say not over 100K) I occasionally tack them on.
So silly. So, so silly.
My solution was to write up a 4K word set of appendices, and depending on whether it feels better to query 102K or 98K (because yes, some say not over 100K) I occasionally tack them on.
So silly. So, so silly.
It is a bit silly. But of course, the first thing you should pay attention to, in word count or anything else, is what the agent or publisher wants.
I'd also argue that there's levels to that. 10k to 20k on either side is enough that agents or editors will typically squint and overlook if they enjoy the book enough. But if a novel is 3 or 4 times the expected average, it may sometimes be worth telling writers that the deck will be stacked against them. (I tend not to, but I'm hands-off in general about these things.)
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I'd always heard 80-120K for SFF. My former agent said she had no problem requesting fantasy up to 140K. My own stuff is long for SF, and for all three books my editor requested changes that added at least 5K. Hearing someone told that 100K is "too short" just reinforces that it's subjective, and it depends which agent/editor you hit.
But yeah, once you break about 160K I think you're risking auto-rejects. Which doesn't mean the book isn't good - there's Rothfuss and Clarke, among others - but it's likely to take you longer (and a lot more legwork) to find it a home.
Agreed. I'd read those same ballparks, and a few others, and thought I had hit the sweet spot with 97K. I'd rather have a slimmer debut (I'd be content with a 90K debut) and build out bigger from there, after all. Somehow I crept back up to 98K and wrote the appendices to get over 100.
Anyway, back to DAW, they look great aside from the long wait time, and I'm sure would have little problem with the 80-120K range.
Anyway, back to DAW, they look great aside from the long wait time, and I'm sure would have little problem with the 80-120K range.
For the record, DAW's submission page states "The average length of the novels we publish varies, but is almost never fewer than 80,000 words."
That at least gives you something to work with. According to the page, it also doesn't hurt if your work is diverse in some way.
That at least gives you something to work with. According to the page, it also doesn't hurt if your work is diverse in some way.
It looks like, from earlier on this thread and almost a decade ago, that your wait time is typical.
http://www.critters.org/blackholes/sightdata.ht
That's the compilation of 'black hole' stats from various publishers. There aren't many data points for DAW (9 at the moment) and the average is 230 days but the spread is huge -- from 24 days to 1200+. All rejections, but you'd not expect a contract to end up with a data point on a place called 'black hole.' And, sample size is meager.
http://www.critters.org/blackholes/sightdata.ht
That's the compilation of 'black hole' stats from various publishers. There aren't many data points for DAW (9 at the moment) and the average is 230 days but the spread is huge -- from 24 days to 1200+. All rejections, but you'd not expect a contract to end up with a data point on a place called 'black hole.' And, sample size is meager.
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