Hilary Mantel Short Story Accused of 'Bad Taste'

They weren't so vocal when Thatcher's pal Fredrick Forsythe was fantasizing about assassinating De Gaulle in Day of the Jackal

Anyone who thinks that fantasizing about killing a politician is "deranged" behavior has clearly never had much interaction with the average person.

williemeikle said:

They weren't so vocal when Thatcher's pal Fredrick Forsythe was fantasizing about assassinating De Gaulle in Day of the Jackal

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The Day of the Jackal was less a fantasy than a fictionalized version of an actual assassination attempt.

But the MPs calling for Mantel to be "investigated" are pure political theater. What, investigate her for allegedly fantasizing about assassinating a dead woman?

In bad taste? Possibly.

Off limits? Fuck no. These are the same people who want you thrown in jail for flag-burning. These are the people who will wrap themselves in the flag and talk about rights when it suits them, but will be the first to attempt to shut someone else down.

There's an old joke (stop me if you've heard this)...

A Russian and an American are talking about Rights. The American says, "We have freedom of speech. I can walk right into the office of the President, pound my fist on the desk, and tell him I don't like the way he's running America."

The Russian replies (in a Russian accent), "How is that special? I too can walk into the office of the Secretary, pound my fist on the desk, and tell him I don't like the way the President is running America."

(Thank you, I'm here 'till Thursday. Try the veal.)

The point is that anyone has freedom of speech when they're saying safe, approved things. Freedom is tested by saying things that make people's blood boil; or by doing things like burning the flag. That's when you test how much someone really supports rights. And it looks like the tories have failed the test.

Good grief. Every writer has looked at a real life situation and thought, "Well, what if..." and sometimes some pretty nasty stuff follows. Those folks complaining ought to concern themselves with the more real world threats, frankly, and leave fiction alone.

as is so often the case, this is less about bad taste and more about unrefined palates.

In bad taste? Sure. But so are a lot of books, short stories, movies, etc...
That's why we have freedom of speech (in this country anyway), so people with stupid and offensive ideas are free to express them.

I don't support harassing people who write incendiary literature, regardless of how tasteless it is. MP's investigating Mantel would definitely be harassment over speech.

That said, it's probably not healthy to get so wrapped up in politics that you start fantasizing about the assassination about politicians you don't like. If she finds a big enough audience, then good for her I suppose. But I'm probably not gonna endorse it.

I'm not sure the story contained stupid or offensive ideas - the description was just a woman who let someone into her home who was planning to assassinate Thatcher. There are a lot of thrillers out there that portray assassins and real life political figures. Much ado about nothing, IMO, having more to do with politics than taste.

RikWriter said:

In bad taste? Sure. But so are a lot of books, short stories, movies, etc...
That's why we have freedom of speech (in this country anyway), so people with stupid and offensive ideas are free to express them.

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. We have it here too

shadowwalker said:

I'm not sure the story contained stupid or offensive ideas - the description was just a woman who let someone into her home who was planning to assassinate Thatcher. There are a lot of thrillers out there that portray assassins and real life political figures. Much ado about nothing, IMO, having more to do with politics than taste.

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Exactly. She wrote a story using a real, but dead, politician's name. It would be different, I think, if she was writing about the attempted assassination of a live, current politician, because that might be 'tasteless'.
And possibly inflammatory, depending.
But people who can no longer be killed? I thought it was the tactful choice.
Are they going to arrest mystery writers whose plots involve the killing of historic figures next? (Historic figure: what Margaret Thatcher is close to being, anyway.)

Alexandra Little said:

Anyone who thinks that fantasizing about killing a politician is "deranged" behavior has clearly never had much interaction with the average person.

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...or with the average politician...

Seriously, could Ms. Mantel have even asked for more widespread and (ahem) interesting publicity?

Oh, look. Nadine Dorries is concerned for Margaret Thatcher's family. How thoughtful. Bless.

Have they all noticed yet that Thatcher is dead? And that Mantel didn't kill her. Would they have been so shocked and appalled if the subject of Mantel's story had been a Labour PM? (Or even John Major.)

The full piece on Mantel is here (Guardian) and a short story here.

I read the story before hearing there was any controversy. I wasn't attracted by the subject, and I don't much care for reading short stories, but I love Mantel's Thomas Cromwell books so I figured I'd give it a go.

Despite not being much interested in the subject or genre, that story grabbed me, shook me up and spit me out begging for more. So, the story may be tasteless or tactless, but damn, that woman can write!

Now I'm seeing Hilary Mantel as Connie James in Spooks.

What a storm in a teacup. If Thatcher were still alive and a possible target for assassination I suppose there could be cause for concern, but she's already dead, fer pete's sake. And where do you draw the line when it comes to living people? There were some complaints about the 2009 TV "mockumentary" The Execution of Gary Glitter but I don't remember anyone being concerned about the subject's family.

I would have reintroduced capital punishment as a one off for the "lady's not for turning" speech.

Kuranes said:

I don't support harassing people who write incendiary literature, regardless of how tasteless it is. MP's investigating Mantel would definitely be harassment over speech.

That said, it's probably not healthy to get so wrapped up in politics that you start fantasizing about the assassination about politicians you don't like. If she finds a big enough audience, then good for her I suppose. But I'm probably not gonna endorse it.

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If you read the interview in the Guardian, you'll see that the quote from Mantel is taken out of context, misleadingly so. The way I read it was that she looked out of her (then) home in Windsor and had a clear view of Thatcher, unguarded, in the grounds of the eye hospital, and thought that if she (Mantel) had been an assassin then Thatcher would have been dead there and then. That's not "fantasising about the assassination", more the what-if that resulted in this story.

Given that the story qualifies as alternate history, I suggest that the editors of Year's Best SF volumes take a look at this story.

Ummmm . . . Margaret Thatcher is currently dead. And likely to remain that way. Therefore, she cannot, by definition, be assassinated. What in hell are people upset about?

caw

eyeblink said:

If you read the interview in the Guardian, you'll see that the quote from Mantel is taken out of context, misleadingly so. The way I read it was that she looked out of her (then) home in Windsor and had a clear view of Thatcher, unguarded, in the grounds of the eye hospital, and thought that if she (Mantel) had been an assassin then Thatcher would have been dead there and then. That's not "fantasising about the assassination", more the what-if that resulted in this story.

Given that the story qualifies as alternate history, I suggest that the editors of Year's Best SF volumes take a look at this story.

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Well quite. That's the way a writer's mind tends to work. And it's not like politicians are spending all of their time in bunkers. There are probably a hundred chances every day for someone to shoot any given politician - that's how come now and again they do get shot. And even if they has 100% security so that no assassin could get near them, they can get murdered by their own bodyguards. That's common enough.

But someone has to get a long way beyond a passing thought about the fact that technically they could do so from here to actually doing it.

Kuranes said:

That said, it's probably not healthy to get so wrapped up in politics that you start fantasizing about the assassination about politicians you don't like.

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'Don't like' is the understatement of the year. Intrusive thoughts are common and fantasies harmless. It's those people who start to act out their fantasies we need to worry about.

gothicangel said:

Words Pot. Kettle. Black. come to mind:

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/in-what-universe-is-hilary-mantels-imaginary-assassination-of-margret-thatcher-worthy-of-police-investigation-9747165.html

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Nice use of seaside postcard innuendo in that piece.

gothicangel said:

Mantel's response:

http://www.theguardian.com/books/2014/sep/22/hilary-mantel-critics-thatcher-assassination-short-story?CMP=twt_gu&commentpage=1

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That whole episode of Start the Week is good, esp. Mantel and Kei Miller.