US Air Force: You must say, "I swear to God" !

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Ken

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Air Force sergeant told so. :e2Order:

Has till November to comply. Otherwise he will not be reinstated into the service. The air force is the only branch of the military that requires the oath. (And it didn't until recently when it changed it's policy.) May be because the academy is located in Colorado, amid an evangelical christian community, according to the article.

http://news.yahoo.com/atheist-must-swear-god-leave-us-air-force-232153866.html

Seems unfair. Troops should at least be able to opt out if they wanna. Not cool to force ones beliefs on others and this is essential what is occurring, imo.
 

regdog

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Air Force appears to have no concept of the Constitution and the Amendment regarding Freedom of Religion.
 

robjvargas

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This is weird. I joined the Navy, and they didn't require God in the oath. They even permitted "affirm" for those who objected to swearing.
 

Cranky

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This is weird. I joined the Navy, and they didn't require God in the oath. They even permitted "affirm" for those who objected to swearing.

That was my experience in the Navy as well. *scratches head* I don't like this.
 

Snowstorm

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When I first read the OP, I went "huh?." I'm retired AF and I'd never heard of this foolishness. Then I read the article and read that this lunacy is recent.

Actually in the past years, I'd read just the opposite, how the AF and the military were "at war", so to speak, against Christianity.

How this could be required and which idiot/agency required it is beyond me. I wish the sergeant prevails and soon.
 

sreeves2

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Freedom of religion?
Hello?
Isn't that a violation of his rights?
I don't like it, ugh. It's not right, but that's my opinion. It shouldn't matter where the station is located because above all it's located in the United States of America, and everyone has their rights...
 

Jamesaritchie

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. Not cool to force ones beliefs on others and this is essential what is occurring, imo.

Of course it's fair. If you don't like the beliefs, you go somewhere else. Whether God is in there or not, every vow and oath you take means you WILL believe and act that way. If you don't like it, you go somewhere else.

And tell atheists about not forcing their beliefs on anyone else. I find this to be ten times as common a sit is with Christians.

But the simple fact is much of life, and most of what we do, even the laws we live under, are all a matter of some people forcing their beliefs on others, and saying it's not cool to force your beliefs on anyone else is not thinking it through.

With the Air Force, anyone can opt out. You aren't being drafted, you're joining, and if you;re already in, then just like anyplace else, you either go along with the rules, or you find a new job.
 

cornflake

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Of course it's fair. If you don't like the beliefs, you go somewhere else. Whether God is in there or not, every vow and oath you take means you WILL believe and act that way. If you don't like it, you go somewhere else.

And tell atheists about not forcing their beliefs on anyone else. I find this to be ten times as common a sit is with Christians.

But the simple fact is much of life, and most of what we do, even the laws we live under, are all a matter of some people forcing their beliefs on others, and saying it's not cool to force your beliefs on anyone else is not thinking it through.

With the Air Force, anyone can opt out. You aren't being drafted, you're joining, and if you;re already in, then just like anyplace else, you either go along with the rules, or you find a new job.

The law we live under specifically governs this, and says that the answer is they cannot do this, not 'if you don't like it, leave.'
 

buz

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antidisestablishmentarianist...
 

CrastersBabies

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So, as an atheist, wouldn't it just be like saying, "I swear to giantpinkrabbitinthesky" if they don't believe? Empty words? I wonder if an atheist could just say the oath then later use the excuse of, "Sorry, I don't believe in God, so me swearing to God isn't a binding agreement."

Legalities... hmmm.....
 

Hanson

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Of course it's fair. If you don't like the beliefs, you go somewhere else. Whether God is in there or not, every vow and oath you take means you WILL believe and act that way. If you don't like it, you go somewhere else.

And tell atheists about not forcing their beliefs on anyone else. I find this to be ten times as common a sit is with Christians.

But the simple fact is much of life, and most of what we do, even the laws we live under, are all a matter of some people forcing their beliefs on others, and saying it's not cool to force your beliefs on anyone else is not thinking it through.

With the Air Force, anyone can opt out. You aren't being drafted, you're joining, and if you;re already in, then just like anyplace else, you either go along with the rules, or you find a new job
.
much as i like ur sass, this is gibberish.


Little Timmy: I want join the Air Force, serve my country.


Pop: You mean you want to swear an oath to God?


LT: Say wha?
 

blacbird

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Well, not any more. The Air Force has announced, as a result of this uproar, that they are dropping the "under God" portion of the oath.

How soon do we now get that dropped from the Pledge of Allegiance? It was only added to that pledge in the mid 1950s.

Or "In God We Trust" on our coins?

caw
 

blacbird

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But the simple fact is much of life, and most of what we do, even the laws we live under, are all a matter of some people forcing their beliefs on others, and saying it's not cool to force your beliefs on anyone else is not thinking it through.

This just rocketed to the top of my list of the silliest damn statements I've ever seen on this site. It exactly encapsulates the thinking ISIS uses to justify their atrocities.

caw
 

cornflake

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Well, not any more. The Air Force has announced, as a result of this uproar, that they are dropping the "under God" portion of the oath.

How soon do we now get that dropped from the Pledge of Allegiance? It was only added to that pledge in the mid 1950s.

Or "In God We Trust" on our coins?

caw

The Pledge of Allegiance is a meaningless thing. I mean I agree it should be dropped, but it's not tied to anything, just a thing people say if they feel like it; it's got no binding anything and no one is forced to say it.

The coin thing has been through the courts at least once; there may still be a case hanging around, though I remember one having some decision handed down recently.

A-ha.
 

DancingMaenid

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With the Air Force, anyone can opt out. You aren't being drafted, you're joining, and if you;re already in, then just like anyplace else, you either go along with the rules, or you find a new job.

The Air Force is controlled by the government. It's not a private organization. No branch of the military should be endorsing a particular religion.

In addition, once you join any branch of the military, you're not simply free to leave if you no longer agree with it. What about members of the Air Force who joined prior to 2013, when the "Under God" requirement was considered optional? Do they get to leave in the middle of their enlistment and seek out new jobs?
 

Dennis E. Taylor

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This just rocketed to the top of my list of the silliest damn statements I've ever seen on this site. It exactly encapsulates the thinking ISIS uses to justify their atrocities.

That whole damned post was so full of fail, I decided to treat it like a troll.
 

asroc

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So, as an atheist, wouldn't it just be like saying, "I swear to giantpinkrabbitinthesky" if they don't believe? Empty words? I wonder if an atheist could just say the oath then later use the excuse of, "Sorry, I don't believe in God, so me swearing to God isn't a binding agreement."

Legalities... hmmm.....

It's an oath. You're supposed to mean it. If "so help me God" can be empty words, then so can "I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States."

All service members should be able to swear an oath that they can stand behind in its entirety, without betraying their beliefs.
 

veinglory

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And in my admittedly limited experience many (most?) military people do take such oaths in their full literal sense. I once discussed this with some NZ army blokes in relation to them swearing allegiance to the Queen. Which might seem anachronistic but is actually very important to avoid direct political control of the army and thus the possibility of a coup. They expressed that their allegiance was very much and literally to the Queen as sworn.
 

robjvargas

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All service members should be able to swear an oath that they can stand behind in its entirety, without betraying their beliefs.

Actually, no. They are allowed to "affirm" the oath.
 

asroc

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Yes, I know.

I don't consider an oath to have religious implications in itself so I swore mine, but a couple of people in my class went with the affirmation instead. One was an atheist, another a hardcore Christian.
 
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